Guys doesnt it take 6-8 years to really build a pro franchise from the ground up
Just from prior experience watching other previously barren franchises like the leafs it seems to take many years to get the farm system going and turn them into solid pros. Did the leafs have any prospects prior to Burke?
True. But what else could he have said. If he said longer everyone woulda been wtf no thanks.
Um, no. Alex Anthopolis came in to the Jays and said straight up that they were going to rebuild from the ground up and do it right.
Burke said he didn't need to do it that way, and that he could make the team competitive immediately. He then traded away 2 1sts for short-term fixes. He wasn't playing lip service - his actions speak in line with his words.
If we're going to start talking about 6-8 year rebuilds, then it starts in 2012, not when Burke was hired.
He could have said were going to build the slow and methodical way (ie thru the draft).
Exactly and shut his trap after that statement.
That initial five year statement, followed by the Kessel deal signals to fans that he lacks the patience for a 6-8 year (possibly longer) build and wants to get this done asap.
The Doc trade isn't the reason why the Jays are where they are and why AA is deified.
Subtract every prospect returned from the Halladay trade and the team still has one hell of a farm system and a very good major league team.
TDA and Gose are going to be in the minors this year, and we're unsure if Drabek will even be the #5 starting pitcher.
eg: Marcum for Lawrie, Vernon Wells for someone who isn't Vernon Wells, Gonzalez for Escobar, JMac&Hill for KJ, Patterson/Stewart/Rzep/Dotel for Rasmus, compensation draft picks, etc. Unlike Burke, AA has paid a TON of attention to the draft and that's in a sport where draft picks and prospects might not materialize for 10 years (eg signing a 16 year old Osuna) if at all.
-He gave up Marcum, a solid #2 pitcher and a potential ace for some teams to get a minor league prospect in Lawrie who some people thought had character issues; now it looks like Lawrie could be an all-star 3rd baseman and a huge fan favourite
-He found value for VW when everyone thought (and still thinks) he has negative trade value
-Took a chance on Escobar when ATL was fed up with him and he's blossomed into very good SS
-Got rid of a utility INF and a underperforming 2nd for KJ who isn't doing that well but we hope can turn it around as he's had a really good season not that long ago
-Same as KJ, we got Rasmus at an all-time low in value in exchange for minor pieces (I don't see Stewart every being a mainstay on our roster) and paying quite a bit
-Obtained so many compensatory draft picks that it seems that the new MLB CBA was made to purposely block getting draft picks like this and capping draft spending
-Took a risk and traded a top pitching prospect for a promising closer with a very favourable contract
Um, no. Alex Anthopolis came in to the Jays and said straight up that they were going to rebuild from the ground up and do it right.
Burke said he didn't need to do it that way, and that he could make the team competitive immediately. He then traded away 2 1sts for short-term fixes. He wasn't playing lip service - his actions speak in line with his words.
If we're going to start talking about 6-8 year rebuilds, then it starts in 2012, not when Burke was hired.
Everyone focuses on the kessel deal. If he didn't trade for kessel then maybe he doesn't sign beauchemin which means no lupul or gardiner. And maybe he wouldn't have traded for Phaneuf?
Also short term fix? Kessel is 24 he's here for the long term, lol. Imo Burke hasn't made one mistake, prospects are taking longer than expected which is fine, but in a hockey craved city people start to ntoice.
Everyone focuses on the kessel deal. If he didn't trade for kessel then maybe he doesn't sign beauchemin which means no lupul or gardiner. And maybe he wouldn't have traded for Phaneuf?
Also short term fix? Kessel is 24 he's here for the long term, lol. Imo Burke hasn't made one mistake, prospects are taking longer than expected which is fine, but in a hockey craved city people start to ntoice.
Is he?
I could easily see him bolting in 2 years to some smaller market where he doesnt have camera's in his face 24/7 and papers ripping on his non existant 2 way game every week or so.
Minor leagues have better future players than in the pros right now apparently from what everyone says. Not exactly ideal but there is hope. I know everyone has hope but still hates the word also
One of the Leaf "greats" let us trade him or even retired a leaf I wouldn't have cared but if sundin let us trade him we would have a better farm system right now
I never said it was a gurantee that "that" way works but what the Leafs have been doing forever hasnt worked either, so why not try something different for once? The definition of insanity is doing time after time and expecting different results. Just because the Isles havent succeeded in there attempt at a full blown rebuild doesnt mean the Leafs shouldnt attempt one. They could have some of the worst scouts in the business for all we know?
Also short term fix? Kessel is 24 he's here for the long term, lol. Imo Burke hasn't made one mistake, prospects are taking longer than expected which is fine, but in a hockey craved city people start to ntoice.
Kessel is only under contract for 2 more years, by which time guys like Colborne and Blacker will have probably completed their rookie years and the 2012 and 2013 picks are barely in the NHL.
Everyone focuses on the kessel deal. If he didn't trade for kessel then maybe he doesn't sign beauchemin which means no lupul or gardiner. And maybe he wouldn't have traded for Phaneuf?
Also short term fix? Kessel is 24 he's here for the long term, lol. Imo Burke hasn't made one mistake, prospects are taking longer than expected which is fine, but in a hockey craved city people start to ntoice.
Connolly, Komisarek and Armstrong say hello... I do agree that Burke's reign has not been the disaster some have made it out to be. Considering what he inherited, this team is certainly headed in the right direction.
One of the Leaf "greats" let us trade him or even retired a leaf I wouldn't have cared but if sundin let us trade him we would have a better farm system right now
The best package out there for Sundin was Grabovski, Higgins and a first, so we would have Higgins. The Habs first in 2008 was used to pick Greg Nemisz.
The ILSE's rebuild would also look much better if they didnt pick a dud in Neidereiter and instead took Skinner, Fowler or even Burmistrov. There rebuild would look better if they took Hodgson, Myers, Karlsson, Gardiner, MDZ instead of Bailey. A fullout rebuild can easily go off the rails with bad scouting. Everyday around here I hear about how great the Leafs scouts are so we really shouldnt have this issue?
