Did you seriously just merge Bozak and Kulemin into some sort of 2 headed mutant?
No, I pointed out that both can be 20, or in Kulemin's case, even 30 goal scorers, but I knew people would blow a fit if I put both because they did it in different years. They are both entirely valid 20-goal scorers by his definition.
Amen to that!! I remember how much excitement there was for the Ashton trade and now becuase he hasn't come in and tore it up. Many people claim he'll be barely a third liner!
The just want anything other than we have. Had we done a slower full-draft rebuild they'd be screaming to do a quicker rebuild and trade for Nash..... and whoever else!
Worst case of GIAG (Grass is always greener) Syndrome ever!!
Ashton is garbage, why else do you think we got him for nothing? Come on man The guy will be a borderline NHL player at most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41
Thats different completely different. No one expects the Jays to be competitive right off the bat and the demand to make the playoffs are a lot greater for the Leafs than the Jays. Jays have time for the rebuild since JP Riccardi tried his best but ultimately failed(8 years). They aren't comparable so people need to stop trying to
It's comparable. It's slow rebuild done right vs. bandaid solutions. If I don't use the AA comparison, then lets just say Dale Tallon or how Pittsburgh did things (their farm development was amazing pre and post Crosby)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansoncarter
mike komisarek, francois beauchiman, colby armstrong, tim connoly, lilies
now he's throwing 5mil contracts around to 23 goal scorers. And 4mil or whatever macarthur got overpaid for his 19.
just because he didn't go crazy for it like glenn sather or whoever, he's had playoffs in mind every single year he's been here imo. To me that disqualifies him from being called a patient gm.
Good poast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huge
Seguin on verge of already being a 30-40 guy. We were soooo close guys
Imagine what he'll be putting up when he's 25.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Yes, Burke failed to properly evaluate the team.
There was a lot of expectation of rebuilding the team, but Burke said because of what happened in Anaheim and because of how old he was that he did not have to do a regular rebuild.
I don't think it's a failure to evaluate so much as laziness. Burke's MO wherever he goes is a) ideology and b) favoritism
Bringing in his ex Vancouver/Anaheim buddies and trying to emulate past success without looking at the bigger picture of the team is a problem. Rather than starting from scratch and seeing what pieces we have, he tries too hard to rely on his past than look at the present. When we acquired Giguere I just shook my head. I'm surprised we didn't get Marc Crawford on the bench and push for Cloutier & Jovanovski.
And no, there's a big difference between assessing players and predicting the coin toss that is the playoffs.
Maybe you're new to the whole hockey prospect thing, but realize how few actually make it to the bigs. It's depressing.
Nice avoiding everything I said!
Few prospects make it to the bigs, yet your entire strategy is to base team-building around prospects?
If a Leaf prospect does something, they are a bust. If a prospect on another team does the exact same thing, they are a huge part of the future, according to you.
Few prospects make it to the bigs, yet your entire strategy is to base team-building around prospects?
If a Leaf prospect does something, they are a bust. If a prospect on another team does the exact same thing, they are a huge part of the future, according to you.
What the hell are you talking about, I never said anything of the sort
What the hell are you talking about, I never said anything of the sort
Except you did, by saying that our prospect pool sucks and other team's are the best, despite having players that are playing and producing and doing things in similar ways.
Except you did, by saying that our prospect pool sucks and other team's are the best, despite having players that are playing and producing and doing things in similar ways.
Well, yes, the Leafs' pool is terrible and another team or two out there (re: "other teams") have the best. Obviously. Unless you're implying that the Leafs have the best?
But I haven't a clue what you mean by "having players that are playing and producing and doing things in similar ways"
Ottawa Senators came into the league with nothing. They assembled a roster out of an expansion draft, that gave them nothing. They were the worst team in hockey for a few years.
In their 5th season, they made the playoffs. The continued to make the playoffs for the next 11 seasons, before missing once....and getting back in the following year.
So, does it take 6 - 8 years go build a team from the ground up? Well, it can for some....but the Senators showed that it can be done in less time.
What about the other prospect pools make them so much better than ours? Why are all of our prospects declared crap, but all prospects that aren't ours are the next coming? What have they done that sets them apart?
It's not that difficult. Stop acting confused because you have no answer.
You're right and pooleboy did not do his homework.
Beauchemin was signed on July 6, and the Kessel deal was on September 18.
Its not as simple as that.
One. The kessel deal was in place since the draft. But more importantly, Beauch didnt sign here to be a part of a rebuild. As we can tell, he left as soon as he could. Would you uproot your family to come to a team that u thought was going to be terrible? Burke was not planning on bottoming out, and obviously sold him on the idea (incorrect) that he was going to compete for the playoffs. Also, if burke was planning on bottoming out, he wouldnt sign beauch, and he wouldnt have traded for phaneuf, which led to ashton.
So burkes plan (while it didnt go as well as we would hope) did lead to gardiner. Who is probably going to be as good as we would likely have got in the draft, comparable to Hamilton.
Few prospects make it to the bigs, yet your entire strategy is to base team-building around prospects?
If a Leaf prospect does something, they are a bust. If a prospect on another team does the exact same thing, they are a huge part of the future, according to you.
I wouldn't waste your breathe! That guy signifies everything illogical and irrational about a good number of Leafs fans.
Want to rebuild through the draft, yet want to trade all our young players because they haven't hit superstar status by 25 or earlier! They whine cause it's taking longer than 3.5 years yet by their methodology we'd never stop rebuilding. We'd draft, play them for a couple years until they didn't hit their expectation and then trade them all off and build again.
They are so disillusioned by 1st round picks that they want to try and build a team this year with 4 or so late roundpicks and criticize Burke for refusing to do it. Why on earth woudl you try to compose a team out of a very weak draft year.
We have a very solid prospect pool as said by many well-versed hockey analysts yet tehy're all duds! Cause not all of them were drafted by us! They want a team full of up and coming prospects yet won;t give Ashton a few games to get hsi feet wet before calling him a failure!
This fanbase has become so ridiculous it's not even funny! Rationale and reason have gone out the window!~
He said he didn't have the patience to do a 5 year rebuild and that he knew it could be done in less based on his experience in Anaheim. Nowhere in there is a promise that it would absolutely take less than five years. And incidentally, Burke sitll has a year and eight months before he has been here 5 years.
Too many times, people hear Burke say something and twist it into some kind of promise which is just ridiculous. For example, the year that Burke said he was going to try and move up in the draft and get Tavares. He tried and didn't succeed, and people started whining about how he promised that he was going to get Tavares and didn't.
The comments were pure idiocy no matter how you wanna take them. Anybody who had spent even 5 minutes looking over our system would've known we didn't have a Getzlaf or a Perry or even a Ryan waiting in the wings. Without those assets in place the turnaround in Anaheim wouldn't have happened in anywhere near the timeframe it did.
The comments were pure idiocy no matter how you wanna take them. Anybody who had spent even 5 minutes looking over our system would've known we didn't have a Getzlaf or a Perry or even a Ryan waiting in the wings. Without those assets in place the turnaround in Anaheim wouldn't have happened in anywhere near the timeframe it did.
this is the difference between someone who knows the game and someone who's simply a diehard supporter of their team.
Someone who knows the game, realizes the leafs don't have a getzlaf or perry coming up. The diehard fan believes ashton, colborne, can be like those players.
burke thought he had anaheim 2.0 here. The acquisitions of beauchemain, phaneuf, komisarek, giguerre, and kessel were suppose to re-create beauchemain, niedermayer, pronger, giguerre, and selanne.
Boy was burkie wrong! He thought it was so easy and all his doing. No super-star draft picks on cheap contracts (getzlaf,perry), no chance for anaheim.
Um, no. Alex Anthopolis came in to the Jays and said straight up that they were going to rebuild from the ground up and do it right.
While Burke may not have come out and said that he was going to build from the ground up, his aquisition of prospects, picks and his agressive shopping for players that he likes to consider "free wallents" have certainly improved our prospect pool. He appears to be building from the ground up while trying to maintain a competitive NHL team at the same time. Up until a month ago everything appeared to be working, then the wheels fell off the NHL team. The Marlies and our prospect pool in general however are looking very strong and should soon be providing the Leafs with a consistant infusion of young talented players if Burke maintains his building plan.
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Originally Posted by Sokil
Burke said he didn't need to do it that way, and that he could make the team competitive immediately. He then traded away 2 1sts for short-term fixes. He wasn't playing lip service - his actions speak in line with his words.
How is Kessel a short-term fix? He was what 21 when the Leafs landed him and he already had a 30 goal season already under his belt. That the trade backfired somewhat in that one of those picks turned into Seguin, who looks destined to become and elite number one center, does not make this trade an attempt at a quick fix. No one could have predicted that the Leafs were going to finish as low as they did the year that we made the deal with Boston. Nor does anyone seem to care about the fact that Kessel is a darn good player in his own right.
no it doesnt if you enter 6-8 year territory you're already into another generation
if you're into a 6 7 year rebuilding plan that means that the players you brought in over the first 5 years have FAILED
a lot of franchises can be rebuilt quickly others take time but no one gets more then 5 years to rebuild
why not give burke a 10 to 20 year rebuilding plan it's ridiculous
to bottom out and rebuild through the draft most surely takes longer than 5 years to become a contender as a rule with few exceptions. think about it your 1st bad years high pick would be your oldest key player at 23.
The guy will be a borderline NHL player at most.
