Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
Disclaimer: I am only generalizing to try and bring my point across, I do not believe what I am saying applies to every American.
I have lived in this Country for more than 4 years now and I have seen a good variety of people. From Georgia to Pennsylvania, Ohio, East Coast and Cali I've met my fair share of people. Rural and Urban. I believe I have seen a good bunch of people to get an idea of this culture.
A culture I dearly love and to an extent is becoming part of my own personal culture.
I would say people who know me , for the most part would say I am almost assimilated. Of course I still have many "wacky" European opinions that I won't get rid of and certainly don't want to.
Everyone should embrace and value their culture, but here is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around.
Why are Americans afraid of so many things?
Starting from Kinder Surprise Eggs to owning Guns.
Where does it come from?
I get that the media has a big part in this mentality by reporting about violent/criminal behavior in General, but it is hard to believe many people can be so easily led into believing that threats like these are so imminent that it requires your direct attention.
Communism, Islam, Socialism, Atheists, Burglary, Murder, ****, Abductions, Foreigners. All things people seem to be so afraid off that it causes some of them to take drastic measures.
Sure, crime is something to be afraid of and even though I have never been victim of a violent crime I am probably just as afraid as the majority of something bad happening to me. Am I going to go out and buy a gun though, or a weapon? I don't even own pepper spray so it's unlikely.
And I get the argument that says 'just because it has never happened to you doesn't mean it won't' but should I live in a state of fear because of a possibility? Might as well just get it done and over with and commit suicide to prevent anything from happening to me, right?
In a way I believe for the most part you can avoid getting in to "trouble" by simply avoiding certain areas and being non confrontational. For the times you get into trouble without any wrong doing on your part you can't mostly do anything about it and a weapon would most likely do more harm than good.
Neighborhood Watches seem like another extreme to me but I don't want to open another can of worms since it's already been discussed in another thread.
Am I completely wrong in thinking that a base level of fear exists in this American society that causes people to do things citizens of other countries would declare as simply paranoid?
American mainstream news media have created a culture of fear, no doubt about that. American mainstream news is based off of the "us vs them" mentality.
I don't think this is in any way an accurate reflection of American people though.
Most Americans can't even find Canada on a map. Where you're constantly in the dark, it's not surprising that you'd be scared.
well that's not true
and I dunno, some disagree, but I don't really think it's that unreasonable to not want toys inside food. could easily see a chocking hazard there with young children.
and I dunno, some disagree, but I don't really think it's that unreasonable to not want toys inside food. could easily see a chocking hazard there with young children.
Have you ever actually seen a Kinder Egg? Kids would struggle to choke on that thing even if they really tried their hardest to.
Have you ever actually seen a Kinder Egg? Kids would struggle to choke on that thing even if they really tried their hardest to.
Kinder Surprise Eggs were awesome - definitely "enriched" my childhood. And seriously people, if your child chokes on those, that's just natural selection.
American mainstream news media have created a culture of fear, no doubt about that. American mainstream news is based off of the "us vs them" mentality.
I don't think this is in any way an accurate reflection of American people though.
I agree with this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo
Most Americans can't even find Canada on a map. Where you're constantly in the dark, it's not surprising that you'd be scared.
I do not agree with this post, though I will agree there are plenty of stupid Americans. Just like there are many stupid people from every other country in the world.
I do not agree with this post, though I will agree there are plenty of stupid Americans. Just like there are many stupid people from every other country in the world.
Regular news programming that I can see on pop US tv and radio is a wasteland of spoon fed messaging aimed at the lowest common denominator, for the most part. But it ain't so in print. The US has absolutely 1st class writers in print media, with some of the best investigative reporting and in-depth coverage anywhere in the world. If you know where to look, on many topics including politics, science, the arts, tech, etc....and that includes websites. The US has what, 5% of the world's population but I'm willing to wager 10 times more that amount of interesting websites worth reading or pumping out information are American.
And I don't think the US is alone in being manipulated by political/economic fear tactics. If you think you see it more in the US, it might be because you're more tuned into US coverage of events, or that US media is more influential, widespread globally. If you don't see similar national warts/weaknesses elsewhere, it's not necessarily because it doesn't exist.
p.s. and where did anyone get the idea that Americans fear owning guns? and I'm almost sorry at this point I've replied to a generalizing bait/flame thread, it's past midnight, I'm tired and wasn't thinking....
p.s. and where did anyone get the idea that Americans fear owning guns? and I'm almost sorry at this point I've replied to a generalizing bait/flame thread, it's past midnight, I'm tired and wasn't thinking....
I think the implication is that Americans own guns because they're afraid. Reading the OP again, I could be wrong though. It's not really clear. Personally, I don't own a gun, but I don't see what's wrong about being prepared for the worst.
Anyway, that was an aside. We don't need another gun thread.
Regular news programming that I can see on pop US tv and radio is a wasteland of spoon fed messaging aimed at the lowest common denominator, for the most part. But it ain't so in print. The US has absolutely 1st class writers in print media, with some of the best investigative reporting and in-depth coverage anywhere in the world. If you know where to look, on many topics including politics, science, the arts, tech, etc....and that includes websites. The US has what, 5% of the world's population but I'm willing to wager 10 times more that amount of interesting websites worth reading or pumping out information are American.
And I don't think the US is alone in being manipulated by political/economic fear tactics. If you think you see it more in the US, it might be because you're more tuned into US coverage of events, or that US media is more influential, widespread globally. If you don't see similar national warts/weaknesses elsewhere, it's not necessarily because it doesn't exist.
p.s. and where did anyone get the idea that Americans fear owning guns? and I'm almost sorry at this point I've replied to a generalizing bait/flame thread, it's past midnight, I'm tired and wasn't thinking....
You are right, the US media, as far as I can tell is not the only one who plays on the fears of humans in general. European media does it as well but from my point of view and 27 years of experience in Europe I do not perceive many Europeans of as fearful of events that might have a minuscule chance of happening to them.
As for the second paragraph, I assume since it's so late you didn't read it right or maybe I could have worded it better but Montag DP pretty much nailed it.
As for this being a "bait/flaming" thread, I'm glad you jumped over my disclaimer.
My son and my wife are both American and I do eventually intend to become American myself, why would I "flame" my wife's/son's country men?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP
I think the implication is that Americans own guns because they're afraid. Reading the OP again, I could be wrong though. It's not really clear. Personally, I don't own a gun, but I don't see what's wrong about being prepared for the worst.
Anyway, that was an aside. We don't need another gun thread.
Many are indoctrinated in the notion that the US is somehow exceptional and the best in everything, which means that anything foreign, be it just an idea or something material, is inferior or even dangerous.
I think that The citizens of the US are Guinea pigs to Social experiments. It started with Sigmund Freud, continued by Edward Bernays and has evolved everyday since.
I do not agree with this post, though I will agree there are plenty of stupid Americans. Just like there are many stupid people from every other country in the world.
Well the Canada on a map thing was obviously hyperbole, but I did find this:
And not trying to troll, but having lived in numerous countries for long periods of time, I have definitely come to the conclusion that Americans are possibly the most poorly informed people in the developed world. Europeans in general tend to have a decent grasp of geography and a somewhat satisfactory grasp of national and world politics. Most Americans are terrible at both.
As for the surprise egg thing, someone posted this on facebook the other day:
American's also don't practice "Risk Assessment" very well, or at all for that matter. We seem to lean towards the extreme if anything goes wrong.
I remember once a story about a semi toxic land fill. U.S citizens (in conjunction with the U.S government) felt the only way to solve the problem was to scrape the land entirely clear of the toxic soil and ship it to a specialized landfill. Where as in Europe they covered the soil with good material/fill (a fair amount of it), and turned the area into public park. The only caveat was that you couldn't dig hole in the park. But that wasn't "safe" enough for U.S citizens. The demon soil was so feared it had to shunned away, and god forbid someone dig a 6' foot hole in the park, for they may develop a tumor in 20 years for doing so.
We opt for "no tolerance" policies rather than logical solutions to problems. Often times (possibly due to our litigious nature) officials of our government (both federal and local) will often choose a path of the least responsibility. They apply boilerplate solutions where simply taking some responsibility for a decision made would suffice. For instance most municipalities don't have a system of selective rescue vehicle dispatch. Meaning there's no assessment type system for when accidents happen. In the U.S you'll often see ladder truck type fire engines dispatched to car fires or even car accidents where no fire is present. Dozens of police vehicles, EMTs and other vehicles and personnel. For the 1 in 1000 times all these vehicle and personnel might be needed that's fine, but for the rest of those times it's a waste of resources and possibly putting someone else in danger who may need services at the same time.
Here's another one: A NYC school was once found to have asbestos in the walls/interior of the building. Parents (mostly hysterical mothers) demanded it be removed. Ironically an assessment of the problem indicated that removal of the asbestos would put too much of it in an airborne state, thus making the building more dangerous. They wanted nothing to do with it. The asbestos was removed, the building's air was permanently contaminated and it was condemned.
"Officials" of all kinds will opt to throw all kinds of money and resources at a problem because they they don't want to incur the wrath of a citizenship that can't actively assess risk.
The state we're in is partly due to recent obsessions with child rearing. Over the last 20 years or so, raising a child hasn't simply become a responsibility but an obsession. Parents dedicate way too much time "protecting" their children from everything and anything that posses even the slightest threat. And there's not a single politician who will tell a voting parent "calm down you're over reacting" when it comes to their precious cargo. The "Baby on Board" bumper stickers and placards were only the start of it (as if the entire general public is responsible for driving more safely once they see the sign in your car window).
It's similar to our tax problem. No one wants to hear "there's not enough money and we'll have to make hard decisions (read assessments) about things". No one wants to hear that things (schools, products, roads, policies etc), might not be entirely, 100%, and completely safe.
And that brings us to probably the other half of the equation. U.S citizens hate to be responsible for their own actions. Or be told they might have to responsibility for some the decisions they make. We call stupid things people do "tragedies" if someone else is more responsible for the incident. No one wants to place blame on any victim no matter how stupid their actions might have been. Climb over a fence and jump into a lion's den at the zoo in the U.S? That's not a case of someone stupid, it's a case of the fence not being tall enough or not having barbwire on top of it. I remember the case of a local girl who was ***** and murdered by a bouncer at a NYC bar. Yes terrible, yes the "club" hired a Xcon to bounce. But she did go home with a man she had just met while intoxicated. Drive in Cali sometime in your life. People walk right into cross walks with out looking. Yes ideally every other citizens right down to the last one should be looking out for you because of the laws. But why rely solely on that? I'll tell you why not. Because not everyone is going to follow the law, and the best way to protect yourself is to take some responsibility for the actions you take, and not just assume the government will protect you from everything.
George Carlin once said (and I'm paraphrasing): "Why do we have to prepare and plan for what the most stupid of us will do".
I'm pretty sure none of these things are unique to Americans.
Not disagreeing with you, just sayin'. There's a reason nearly every modern nation in the world is running a deficit.
Agreed, I think with the link to the documentary "The Century of Self", we can see that it's outside forces that capitalized on these things (in the U.S) more than most other places. Or certainly it was the first time these instincts were taken advantage of, and other nations followed suit.
Perhaps Bernays wasn't all that insightful, but that consumerism and "self" might just be a natural thing when more free time is present. Cavemen painted at some point. Certainly an entirely "useless" activity considering the struggle for survival back then, yet it was done when enough free time was present.
Expression of self, and others facilitating that expression might just be a natural state humans end up developing. And then it all comes crashing down at some point to only start the cycle over again.
I've always thought a "fad" (perhaps initiated by social media and the WWW) of frugality, might be a counter to this type of thing. "Stuff doesn't make you happy"... or some other such slogan. Or "Put your money in your mattress, not in the pockets of Bankers". Certainly with the economic debacle you'd think there would be larger pushback of this type. But as Julia Sweeney said: "Truth is a poor competitor in the market place of ideas".
Anyhoo, I have to shower, so I can go to work, so I can buy things......
