HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Notices

Could Chara win another Norris?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-01-2012, 03:18 AM
  #51
Colt.45Orr
Registered User
 
Colt.45Orr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
Lidstrom is a great player but he was average at best last year. How he won it over Chara I have no freakin' clue.
It was a friggen joke.

I'd be OK with EK winning it this year because he is better defensively than most give him credit for and he is the MVP of the league (IMO) but Lidstrom winning it last year was straight-up BS.

Colt.45Orr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 03:33 AM
  #52
David Krejci
STANLEY CUP CHAMPS
 
David Krejci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,106
vCash: 500
Chara's had a good year. Not his best (well, point wise it is), but he's hit some rough patches when the rest of the team did. But he's still by far the best shutdown D man in the league.

It should be either him or Weber. Weber should've won it last year, I was annoyed when he didn't because I really like Nashville. So if Weber wins it, I'm cool with that. But if not, then Chara definitely should.

David Krejci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:32 AM
  #53
BigBadZ33*
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Did you know that Karlsson doesn't kill penalties and is suspect defensively?
Karlsson is Mike Green the 2nd. One good offensive statistical year, with absolute horrific defensive abilities...

He'd be a terrific forward... Well, he basically is. Most teams bottom pair is better than Karlsson on defense.

BigBadZ33* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:33 AM
  #54
BigBadZ33*
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Krejci View Post
Chara's had a good year. Not his best (well, point wise it is), but he's hit some rough patches when the rest of the team did. But he's still by far the best shutdown D man in the league.

It should be either him or Weber. Weber should've won it last year, I was annoyed when he didn't because I really like Nashville. So if Weber wins it, I'm cool with that. But if not, then Chara definitely should.
Weber's overrated. He plays with another allstar shut down d-man. Chara plays with young guys that get brought up from the AHL and turns them into solid NHL d-men.

BigBadZ33* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 06:28 AM
  #55
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 17,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
There's no need to use him on the PK when they can save him for ES and the PP. There's no need to wear him out.
Wear him out?

This just gets funnier and funnier.

Artemis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 06:29 AM
  #56
ODAAT
Registered User
 
ODAAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadZ33 View Post
Weber's overrated. He plays with another allstar shut down d-man. Chara plays with young guys that get brought up from the AHL and turns them into solid NHL d-men.
I don`t think that Weber is overrated, what I think is that Suter is underappreciated and underrated and I have long said, of the two, he`s THE guy I`d rather have wearing a spoked B.

Z is still very much a top 5 D-man, but this won`t be his year, I think the NHL will go offensive, dynamic this year, and that`s Karlsson, which is fine but this is suppose to be an award given to those who are great defensively, and while Karlsson is decent defensively, his own zone play is overshadowed, camouflaged by his exceptionaly offensive ability

ODAAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 07:37 AM
  #57
TCL40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,852
vCash: 500
Take a poll of players-ask them which defenseman they hate opposing them the most-Chara or Karlsson and I bet Chara wins and it isn't even close.

I also agree-if you don't kill penalties then you aren't really the best defenseman-a huge cornerstone of playing defense is killing penalties.

I think Chara was deserving last year (although last year I probably would have given it to Weber) and I think Chara is deserving this year. I thought Lidstrom's last year was a career achievement award.

Also, Chara is still putting up numbers and playing his tail off while Thomas is having an not quite Thomas level year (Thomas is playing well but he isn't getting the Vezina). One of the knocks against Chara in his NOrris year was that Thomas just made him look better. Well this year Chara is putting up numbers and playing his tail off and doing well league wide in plus/minus. I think this year pretty much says Chara isn't dependent onhis goalie to make his numbers look better.

TCL40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 07:42 AM
  #58
Taz#24
Registered User
 
Taz#24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Washington DC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,743
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Taz#24
This...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
Pretty straightforward question: Do you think Z will take home another Norris this season? I was just perusing the leaders in defensemen stats and it looks to me like he's deserving.

He's now 2nd in defenseman scoring to Karlsson, albeit by quite a bit.
But he's also far superior to Karlsson in pretty much every other category and everyone knows it. First in d-man +/-, 2nd in points, 2nd in PP goals, plays over 25:00 a night, etc, etc.

I don't need to list all the things Chara is great at to you guys, we all know how much he means. So what do you think? Will he win the Norris or will the league make a joke of the award and give it to Karlsson?
Is why there should be another trophy for "top offensive D-man or top scoring D-man, whatever. The Norris should be reserved for best all around D-man.

Taz#24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 07:45 AM
  #59
SPLBRUIN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,890
vCash: 500
Chara definetly deserves to win it, but the hype this year has gone to Weber and of course Karlsson. If you look at the numbers with Weber, Chara's are better, and as for Karlsson, defensively he is hundreds of miles below Chara, plus he dosen't even kill penalties or go up against the opposition's top forwards, these are what they call the hard minutes.

SPLBRUIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 07:50 AM
  #60
TCL40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
I think he could definitely win another one and should be nominated this year although I have a sneaky feeling Weber will win. Karlsson is amazing though and he will eventually win one
Weber might win it this year, because they are going to make up for stiffing him last year when they gave Lidstrom his lifetime achievement award. Last year I would have given it to Weber, Chara second and Lidstrom 3rd or maybe not even in the mix.

Norris is one of those reputation awards though where sometimes the guy who wins it in a given year doesn't and then they make up for it the following year even if it wasn't his best

TCL40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 07:58 AM
  #61
westernhome
Registered User
 
westernhome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadZ33 View Post
Weber's overrated. He plays with another allstar shut down d-man. Chara plays with young guys that get brought up from the AHL and turns them into solid NHL d-men.
exactly, just as an example, Chara was +4 on the night yesterday playing with different partners all game, while the next best plus minus for the team for the night was +1 Chara makes the whole team so much better when he is playing

Chara is superior defensively than anyone else in consideration, and has been putting up big numbers offensively too.... this one is a no brainer and Chara is by far the best choice for the Norris, it shouldn't even be close

westernhome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:13 AM
  #62
TCL40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
exactly, just as an example, Chara was +4 on the night yesterday playing with different partners all game, while the next best plus minus for the team for the night was +1 Chara makes the whole team so much better when he is playing
I think this is a good point. Part of being good at what you do is making whoever you play with look better. Chara does this in spades. Also, Chara day in and day out is playing against the league's top scorers and as often as not he is successful at doing this. Chara doesn't eat easy minutes.

I also think they should create an award for offensive defensemen-a sort of Rocket Richards trophy for the guys who play on the back end and leave the Norris for the guys who actually play hard minutes of defense and kill penalties.

TCL40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:21 AM
  #63
Boston Bruno
Registered User
 
Boston Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by westernhome View Post
exactly, just as an example, Chara was +4 on the night yesterday playing with different partners all game, while the next best plus minus for the team for the night was +1 Chara makes the whole team so much better when he is playing

Chara is superior defensively than anyone else in consideration, and has been putting up big numbers offensively too.... this one is a no brainer and Chara is by far the best choice for the Norris, it shouldn't even be close
You give chara credit for big offensive numbers, but they are dwarfed by what Karlsson has done.
26 points ahead of Chara

If it was 10 points it could be overlooked - 15-20 you start to ask questions - 25+?

That what? 50% more production points wise?

I am really amazed how easily everyone is dismissing Karlssons offensive dominance for the sens.
Of ottawas 234 gf, the guy has a hand in almost 33 percent of the teams offense.

Boston Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:33 AM
  #64
BruinsBtn
HFBoards Sponsor
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Bruno View Post
You give chara credit for big offensive numbers, but they are dwarfed by what Karlsson has done.
26 points ahead of Chara

If it was 10 points it could be overlooked - 15-20 you start to ask questions - 25+?

That what? 50% more production points wise?

I am really amazed how easily everyone is dismissing Karlssons offensive dominance for the sens.
Of ottawas 234 gf, the guy has a hand in almost 33 percent of the teams offense.
He's been on the ice for half of their even-strength goals against.

BruinsBtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:35 AM
  #65
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,007
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
Chara should absolutely win. Not only does he play on the PK, PP and ES.. he actually produces AND shuts down other teams top lines and he is amongst the leaders in +/- AND TOI to prove it. He does everything. He's like the Bergeron of defenseman. Just like it would be a joke for Bergy to NOT win the Selke, it would be a joke for Chara to not win the Norris.

Hopefully the voters realize that but again I have no faith in that considering they picked Lidstrom last year based on the rumors of it being his final year playing.

SerenityRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:35 AM
  #66
Boston Bruno
Registered User
 
Boston Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
He's been on the ice for half of their even-strength goals against.
Meh. Still doesnt trump that large of a differential in points IMO.

dont get me wrong, I am not hating on chara, but the offensive gap between 1 - 2 is too large to ignore really.

Boston Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:38 AM
  #67
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,007
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Bruno View Post
You give chara credit for big offensive numbers, but they are dwarfed by what Karlsson has done.
26 points ahead of Chara

If it was 10 points it could be overlooked - 15-20 you start to ask questions - 25+?

That what? 50% more production points wise?

I am really amazed how easily everyone is dismissing Karlssons offensive dominance for the sens.
Of ottawas 234 gf, the guy has a hand in almost 33 percent of the teams offense.
No one is dismissing it... what people have objection to is that being a reason to win the Norris. While providing quick ups and offense is part of your job, your main job is to protect your own end.. DEFENSE-MAN. And he's terrible at it. If he was even average in his own zone and shutting down the opposition he would be a shoe-in but he's one trick pony.

That doesn't make his accomplishments any less amazing. It's fantastic. But we're talking about a defenseman winning the Norris here and Karlsson flat out doesn't deserve it.

SerenityRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:38 AM
  #68
TCL40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
He's been on the ice for half of their even-strength goals against.
Exactly.

The good offense is hiding his defensive lapses. Also, not sure but is he used in a shutdown capacity-is he on the ice with the opposing team's best players as often as Chara or Weber?

TCL40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:40 AM
  #69
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,007
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCL40 View Post
Exactly.

The good offense cancels out the defensive lapses. Also, not sure but is he used in a shutdown capacity-is he on the ice with the opposing team's best players as often as Chara or Weber?
I don't watch every Ottawa game but I'm going to go ahead and guess no. Based solely on the fact that he doesn't even kill penalties.

EDIT - And if he is, it's to provide transition to his top line and certainly not to shut down lines.

SerenityRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:54 AM
  #70
ODAAT
Registered User
 
ODAAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Bruno View Post
You give chara credit for big offensive numbers, but they are dwarfed by what Karlsson has done.
26 points ahead of Chara

If it was 10 points it could be overlooked - 15-20 you start to ask questions - 25+?

That what? 50% more production points wise?

I am really amazed how easily everyone is dismissing Karlssons offensive dominance for the sens.
Of ottawas 234 gf, the guy has a hand in almost 33 percent of the teams offense.
Ironically, this award, at one time was routinely handed out to the Defenseman who.........hold on........exemplified exceptional Defensive play 1st (but could also contribute offensively)

Langway, back to back years with pt totals of 32 and 33 respectively is my best example.

Bourque won a bunch and anyone here who watched him play can attest to how incredible he was in his own end as well as popping pts

Lidstrom too, exceptionally sound defensively

Karlsson is a blast to watch, and I suspect he`ll get stronger defensively, but if this award was actually based less on stats and more on defensive strengths, he wouldn`t be in this conversation IMO at this stage of his still very young career.

ODAAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 09:05 AM
  #71
Shoebottom
Bruin exiting lair
 
Shoebottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 7 steps from my can
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,513
vCash: 500
Chara is the best Dman in the league this year, no doubt about it.

Shoebottom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 10:23 AM
  #72
smithformeragent
Moderator
 
smithformeragent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Manchester NH
Country: United States
Posts: 8,696
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to smithformeragent
I caught the Ference interview on D&C Friday and he had some words of wisdom on Chara. Basically, saying how Z used to train too hard and wear himself out by the end of the season. Seems he has to have the right balance of training and rest and I think managing his TOI is vital.

smithformeragent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 10:25 AM
  #73
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Not this year i think. Going forward? Sure.

His chances get a lot better once Lidstrom retires.

Dojji* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 10:41 AM
  #74
patty59
***************
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Not this year i think. Going forward? Sure.

His chances get a lot better once Lidstrom retires.
You really need to buy a TV. Lidstrom has been on the downside for a few years now, he was a PP specialist last year and somehow won the Norris as a minus player.

patty59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 11:11 AM
  #75
TCL40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,852
vCash: 500
Lidstrom IMO goes down in the books as one of the best defensemen to play in the NHL but Lidstrom received a career achievement award last year and didn't earn his Norris in a year when I think Weber should have gotten it.

This is one reason I think Weber may get the nod-voters know they cheated him last year and will give it to him this year to make up for it.

TCL40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.