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Game 79 | Florida Panthers @ Detroit Red Wings | 4:00 PM EST |FSD (HD)|NHLN

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Old
04-01-2012, 06:58 PM
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadekuuro View Post
I don't disagree about Q, but having long since been ejected, he was not the reason the team was so punchless in OT. The Panthers were blatantly sitting back 4 on 4 and playing for the shootout, yet still got better looks than we did.
Detroit got some decent chances, the Panthers were just collapsing down which made it tough to get good scoring chances. That was the case when Datsyuk flipped the puck over the net trying to bank one in off Clemmensen's head. I'm surprised the puck didn't carom off Campbell who was in the crease too.

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04-01-2012, 07:09 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Ericsson was the best defensemen out there today. Sad how much he's been **** on all season considering how steady he's been.
Wow.
For one, i think Big E has been solid defensively most of the season -- in a Lilja like way. But today he showed some nastiness, and that made him more effective.

For two, Brad Stuart does what Big E did today. But he does it nearly every night. So it's really special seeing people praising Big E today considering many of those guys are Stuart's critics.

For three, Ericsson was not the reason for the PK today. For one, we had some luck, as that PK in the first period looked REALLY good, and they hit the post and missed the net. For two, the other guys...Stuart, Lidstrom, Flip, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Miller etc... deserve some credit too. In the third period, our five-minute PK was helped by a really weak call against Florida....

So it seems really quite ridculous of Babcock to name Ericsson as the reason why our PK was so good today.

And as good as Ericsson was today. He didn't look very good on Florida's only goal, did he?

And there was also a play where the Wings were killing a penalty and had the puck in the Florida zone. THe penalty expired, making it even strength. Ericsson, however, instead of dumping back in the offensive corner for Datsyuk, passed it back to center ice and out of the zone to kill time, but the penalty was over.

So yeah, by Ericsson's standards, he had a great game.

By regular standards, I'd say he played a nice, strong game.

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04-01-2012, 07:11 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Ericsson has been solid since coming back for sure. I saw some mean streak today, too. I wish that part of his game would be more consistent. Biggest positive the last four games has been our PK, a lot thanks to him. Getting Howard back into his best form will only improve it further. A good PK makes all the difference in games like this.
E's been really good along the boards all season long. Most of the time the guy he's covering ends up getting knocked down onto the ice. He hasn't been as dominant in that regard lately but it could be he's still rounding into form as this is like his third game. His passes were really strong today, mostly right on the tape. Not sure if that's a function of playing a lot with Nick who put him good positions or the Panthers who didn't seem to forecheck much, but his passing looked much sharper today. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

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04-01-2012, 07:12 PM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Kindl was good tonight. He has been good most of games I've seen from him since mid February.

The only people who think Quincey is better than Kindl are people who compare the stats of a miscast top pairing defenseman on a mediocre team to an offensive defenseman being used 14 minutes a night on a top team.

Right now, Kindl is every bit as good or better than Quincey.
Shot isn't as good (but even this is debatable). But he's a better passer. He skates better. He plays smarter D. Quincey can be more physical. But he's not smart about it.
I agree. I was really optimistic about Quincey when they traded for him, but he's been a disappointment. He loves to shoot the puck but he's not scoring or creating chances, so he hasn't really brought much to the team.

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04-01-2012, 07:22 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Wow.
For one, i think Big E has been solid defensively most of the season -- in a Lilja like way. But today he showed some nastiness, and that made him more effective.

For two, Brad Stuart does what Big E did today. But he does it nearly every night. So it's really special seeing people praising Big E today considering many of those guys are Stuart's critics.

For three, Ericsson was not the reason for the PK today. For one, we had some luck, as that PK in the first period looked REALLY good, and they hit the post and missed the net. For two, the other guys...Stuart, Lidstrom, Flip, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Miller etc... deserve some credit too. In the third period, our five-minute PK was helped by a really weak call against Florida....

So it seems really quite ridculous of Babcock to name Ericsson as the reason why our PK was so good today.

And as good as Ericsson was today. He didn't look very good on Florida's only goal, did he?

And there was also a play where the Wings were killing a penalty and had the puck in the Florida zone. THe penalty expired, making it even strength. Ericsson, however, instead of dumping back in the offensive corner for Datsyuk, passed it back to center ice and out of the zone to kill time, but the penalty was over.

So yeah, by Ericsson's standards, he had a great game.

By regular standards, I'd say he played a nice, strong game.
He was fine on Florida's only goal and played it as he should have. He had his area and his man covered. Emmerton missed his assignment on the backcheck, leaving him wide open for the goal.

But naturally you'd pin it on Ericsson.

You do realize that by "people" praising Ericsson, you're also including the coach of the Red Wings.

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04-01-2012, 07:31 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Kindl was good tonight. He has been good most of games I've seen from him since mid February.

The only people who think Quincey is better than Kindl are people who compare the stats of a miscast top pairing defenseman on a mediocre team to an offensive defenseman being used 14 minutes a night on a top team.

Right now, Kindl is every bit as good or better than Quincey.
Shot isn't as good (but even this is debatable). But he's a better passer. He skates better. He plays smarter D. Quincey can be more physical. But he's not smart about it.
Ok, you must be blinded by your man love of Kindl or something to pick tonight as him having a good game.

His shot isn't as good. He may be a better passer but he rarely attempts it. Skating is a wash. He in no way plays smarter than Quincey. And Q plays more physical for sure, though sometimes idiotic like tonight.

I expect Kindl to make rookie mistakes. That's going to come with growing pains. My main problem is he plays so soft. Kindl is the softest defenseman the Wings have, which is disappointing for someone who's 6'3" and 216 lbs. He's actually bigger than Quincey.

His second problem is his constant turnovers. He doesn't make giveaways where he puts the puck on another guys tape because he rarely tries to make an actual outlet pass. Instead he dumps the puck high and hard up the glass when he doesn't need to, which gives the puck right to the other team at center ice. We could have Janik in his spot to do that, and he'd at least play tougher.

Right now Quincey is an adequate middle pairing guy, while Kindl is a rookie not yet living up to his potential.


Last edited by Harold Snepsts: 04-01-2012 at 07:36 PM. Reason: correcting Kindl's height and weight.
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Old
04-01-2012, 07:33 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
For two, Brad Stuart does what Big E did today. But he does it nearly every night. So it's really special seeing people praising Big E today considering many of those guys are Stuart's critics.
It is pretty funny how quickly the tides change. But at least I can say I've always defended E and Stuart

Today was a tight game for both teams and once again the Wings didn't get much puck luck in the offensive zone. Maybe all those posts will turn into goals in the playoffs.

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04-01-2012, 07:36 PM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
I think he's an adequate middle pairing guy, other than the occasional terrible decision like his flying leap at Kopecky.

It'll be interesting to see what the Wings sign him for in the off season. I'm guessing Q has a spot here because of Kindl's stalled development.
Personally, I'd rather gamble on Kindl taking a step forward next year and making a move at the deadline if it doesn't work out than re-sign Quincey.

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04-01-2012, 07:38 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Personally, I'd rather gamble on Kindl taking a step forward next year and making a move at the deadline if it doesn't work out than re-sign Quincey.
It'll be interesting to see what the Wings do in the offseason with Lids and Stuart potentially gone, Q as an RFA, and big D men on the market.

To be clear I'm no big Quincey fan at all. But for someone to say Kindl is better than Quincey at this point is just plain wrong.

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04-01-2012, 07:39 PM
  #510
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Q's worth will be determined in the playoffs. If he can clean up his game there, he'll earn a spot going forward.

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04-01-2012, 07:42 PM
  #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
He was fine on Florida's only goal and played it as he should have. He had his area and his man covered. Emmerton missed his assignment on the backcheck, leaving him wide open for the goal.

But naturally you'd pin it on Ericsson.

You do realize that by "people" praising Ericsson, you're also including the coach of the Red Wings.

So? Does the coach always get it right?
I didn't pin it totally on Ericsson.
You're dead wrong when you say Ericsson had his man covered. He didn't cover anyone
You can't blame that totally on Emmerton either. Who did Ericsson cover on that goal? Nobody. So, maybe Emmerton should have dropped over to the boards to cover the guy on the boards and leave Ericsson to take the guy who eventually got the puck.

I'm not an Ericsson hater. I don't think he earned his contract. That's it.

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04-01-2012, 07:50 PM
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
But for someone to say Kindl is better than Quincey at this point is just plain wrong.
I've listed reasons why I think Kindl is as good or better than Q.

All you do is keep repeating that he's better than Kindl.

Players are often a product of their role.

Bert was brutal on line 3. Put him with Datsyuk, and he salvaged his season and earned a two year deal.

Hudler was crap in a 3rd/4th line role last year. He's good in his role this year.

Quincey is what he is because he played for teams that had young, inexperienced defenses, so he got top 4/top 2 minutes.

You're going to get your points in those situations.

But watching Q, there's very little to like about his game. He's got some speed. He's got a nice shot. But he's a freakin' nightmare, in terms of positional defense,

I think today watching them side-by-side, you could see quite clearly that Kindl was the better of the two in their limited roles.

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04-01-2012, 07:54 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think today watching them side-by-side, you could see quite clearly that Kindl was the better of the two in their limited roles.
You might be right in the long run. Right now I'd prefer Q, but admittedly he hasn't done much to elevate the team lately. Kindl, however, was getting regular time during the team's best stretches - although with limited and sheltered minutes.

It's hard to say with authority. We haven't seen Kindl getting Q's typically larger minutes.

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04-01-2012, 08:05 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
Ok, you must be blinded by your man love of Kindl or something to pick tonight as him having a good game.
Man love? Friend, I think Kindl has potential to be a solid top 4 defenseman. I think he's serviceable as a top 6er right now. I think he's safer and less likely to be out of position.

That's man love to you?


Quote:
His shot isn't as good.
Let's put Kindl out there for PP on a regular basis. I see what I see with Kindl's shot. Good, low shot, usually on target.


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He may be a better passer but he rarely attempts it.
He made several really good, passes with nice touch today. Perfect for guys like Hudler/Flip/Zettterberg and Datsyuk.

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Skating is a wash.
I don't think so. I saw Kindl skate the puck from his own zone, through the neutral ice, and into the offensive zone 3 times today, maintaining possession each time. Each time at even strength.

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He in no way plays smarter than Quincey.
Ah, OK. How many penalties has Kindl taken within seconds after a huge tying goal in the third period?
Kindl has three times more penalty minutes than most of our defenseman.

And I'm not just talking about PIMs.
I'm talking about when to jump and when to stay. I'm talking about the way you react to a two-on-one.

For a guy with a couple hundred NHL games under his belt, Quincey is startlingly stupid.

Quote:
And Q plays more physical for sure, though sometimes idiotic like tonight.
But Quincey doesn't play that physical. More than Kindl, for sure. A penalty like tonight's might be acceptable if he was a guy who always played with edge. But he doesn't.

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I expect Kindl to make rookie mistakes. That's going to come with growing pains. My main problem is he plays so soft.
That's my main criticism of him too.
But he's an offensive defenseman.


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Kindl is the softest defenseman the Wings have, which is disappointing for someone who's 6'3" and 216 lbs.
Well, Lidstrom is pretty soft. Kronwall, outside of open ice hitting, is soft. White is soft.

But yeah, I accept that Kindl is soft. But I don't think Quincey adds much "grit" to the lineup.


Quote:
His second problem is his constant turnovers. He doesn't make giveaways where he puts the puck on another guys tape because he rarely tries to make an actual outlet pass.
I simply don't see this at all. I thought he moved the puck efficiently today.


Quote:
Instead he dumps the puck high and hard up the glass when he doesn't need to, which gives the puck right to the other team at center ice.
Don't agree with this. Don't see this much.
You might see it more with your 3/4 lines on the ice.
But when skill guys are on, Kindl seems to wait and look to make a play.



Quote:
Right now Quincey is an adequate middle pairing guy, while Kindl is a rookie not yet living up to his potential.
?
Total BS.
Quincey is a marginal NHL defenseman in the mold of Andy Delmore.
Quincey of one of those guys who can play for you on your third pairing and 2nd PP unit. But not at $3M+ a year. We got hosed with this deal.
Q doesn't belong on a second pairing. And I don't think he belongs on our third pairing.
Kindl isn't living up to his first pairing potential, but nobody has thought that about him for a long time. Kindl is an adequate third pairing guy and he's only going to get better.

And I just want to say I'm glad that Babcock has the stones to bench Quincey and White, two NHL Vets who've played like garbage, and make them compete for their job.

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04-01-2012, 08:08 PM
  #515
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You might be right in the long run. Right now I'd prefer Q, but admittedly he hasn't done much to elevate the team lately. Kindl, however, was getting regular time during the team's best stretches - although with limited and sheltered minutes.

It's hard to say with authority. We haven't seen Kindl getting Q's typically larger minutes.
What do you base your preference on?
His reputation?
The fact that we traded a first to get him?
Or based on what you've seen of him in Detroit?

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04-01-2012, 08:10 PM
  #516
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Maybe Ericsson was the only player that was injured that really mattered. God why does Helm have to be hurt right now?

I still think that this team is moving in the right direction and are just waiting for the playoffs. It isn't a great strategy for a lot of teams, but they don't all have guys that really want one more cup. A lot of guys on this team have a lot to prove, and they all know the playoffs are the perfect time to do it. I can't wait to see how Datsyul, Zetterberg, Filppula, Hudler, Cleary, Franzen, and Howard step up.

I think we will see a different Wings team than we have seen recently. You can just tell they want to get into the playoffs already.

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04-01-2012, 08:13 PM
  #517
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Captain Bob is spot on about Kindl. I also love that he brought up Kronwall's softness besides the occasional open ice hit.

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04-01-2012, 08:13 PM
  #518
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I thought Kindl looked great today, especially in the first period. He was still terrible on the PP, but who cares cuz he's not gonna play there in the playoffs.

I hope Nyquist can hang in in the playoffs, cuz it looks like we need him.

Was happy to see the Zetterberg line stick with it. They were neutralized through the first two, but they were great in the 3rd. Hudler stepped up and we needed him to. He stayed on the ice and patted everybody after the loss to Nashville, then stepped up in the next game and contributed towards the psychological edge of hopefully going in with home ice. That's good secondary leadership.

We're gonna have to gut it out til Helm gets back, cuz the bottom 6 is awful without him. But if we can make it that far, this last stretch will be a distant memory.

With the Quincy suspension, I'd still like to see the D rotate through the final games, I see no reason why Smith shouldn't be grouped in with the others.

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04-01-2012, 08:16 PM
  #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
What do you base your preference on?
His reputation?
The fact that we traded a first to get him?
Or based on what you've seen of him in Detroit?
I mostly use tea leaves.

But since you pressed me, I'd say it's because I feel he'll have more poise in pressure situations in the playoffs. Will that turn out to be true? I don't know. It's just my hunch. Like I said, you could be right in the long run, but this year I don't think we'll see enough of Kindl to find out.

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04-01-2012, 08:16 PM
  #520
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So what, we think Franzen is just waiting for the playoffs? Taking the last quarter of the season off? Really? That's the positive scenario?

And you know, we were here already last year. At this point it doesn't even matter anymore what the explanation is, if he's again battling an injury that makes him ineffective, we're looking at an injury-prone guy who can give us maybe 50 games a year at 100% with a "serious contract", if he's mailing it in we're stuck with a guy who doesn't have the energy or willpower to give effort throughout the season.

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04-01-2012, 08:22 PM
  #521
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Do I still have to drink if you don't say float, but heavily imply it?

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04-01-2012, 08:23 PM
  #522
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So what, we think Franzen is just waiting for the playoffs? Taking the last quarter of the season off? Really? That's the positive scenario?

And you know, we were here already last year. At this point it doesn't even matter anymore what the explanation is, if he's again battling an injury that makes him ineffective, we're looking at an injury-prone guy who can give us maybe 50 games a year at 100% with a "serious contract", if he's mailing it in we're stuck with a guy who doesn't have the energy or willpower to give effort throughout the season.
Franzen needs to be the third line winger with Abs or Helm or whover.
He's a turnover machine. If he has the puck, he skates in and either tries to do everything himself before losing it, or he takes a low percentage wrist shot.
He passed in the offensive zone once all day, that I remember -- to Nyquist at the blueline.

Datsyuk needs to play with guys who have patience.
And since Flip and Hudler are working with Zetterberg, there's no reason to break that up.

But Franzen + Datsyuk is a waste of Datsyuk.

Nyquist Datsyuk Bertuzzi
Flip Zetterberg Hudler
Cleary Abdelkader Franzen

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04-01-2012, 08:29 PM
  #523
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Bertuzzi is worse on the 1st line than Franzen right now. Your description of Franzen is basically the same of Bert but Bertuzzi takes terrible penalties and has a horrible reputation. Get him away from any high end talent from the opposition. I'd rather it be Nyquist - Datsyuk - Cleary, at least it'll be safe.

But right now the problem isn't Franzen or Bert, it's Datsyuk. He isn't creating anything right now like he usually does. I just hope he finds his mojo for game 1.

This has happened the past few years and everyone blames everyone else. Datsyuk isn't playing anywhere close to the level he normally does.

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04-01-2012, 08:36 PM
  #524
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Bertuzzi is worse on the 1st line than Franzen right now. Your description of Franzen is basically the same of Bert but Bertuzzi takes terrible penalties and has a horrible reputation. Get him away from any high end talent from the opposition. I'd rather it be Nyquist - Datsyuk - Cleary, at least it'll be safe.
I'm not crazy about Bert there to be honest, either. But bert at least looks to pass. His problem, besides making bad passes, is that he doesn't shoot enough.
I thought of Cleary there. But Cleary sucked on Datsyuk's line this year. If he can't skate, and he can't because of that injury, he can't do it.
Homer is a liability with the puck, most of the time.

For your third guy, you just want someone who can win battles in the corners, make a quick pass to keep the possession alive, and get to the net.

Nyquist Datsyuk Miller
Flip Z Hudler
Bert Helm Franzen
Cleary Abdelkader Holmstrom

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04-01-2012, 08:43 PM
  #525
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I'm not crazy about Bert there to be honest, either. But bert at least looks to pass. His problem, besides making bad passes, is that he doesn't shoot enough.
I thought of Cleary there. But Cleary sucked on Datsyuk's line this year. If he can't skate, and he can't because of that injury, he can't do it.
Homer is a liability with the puck, most of the time.

For your third guy, you just want someone who can win battles in the corners, make a quick pass to keep the possession alive, and get to the net.

Nyquist Datsyuk Miller
Flip Z Hudler
Bert Helm Franzen
Cleary Abdelkader Holmstrom
I'd like to put Franzen with Z and Fil to get him going, but I don't know if Babcock will do that. I do not want Hudler on a 1st line with Datsyuk and Nyquist, I really don't want Hudler in the top 6 in the playoffs, period. Cleary has had a really lame season, but I'd like to see him get a chance in the top 6 one more time. He's had some really warrior like playoffs in the past and maybe he can do it again.

I'm still not worried about Franzen in the playoffs yet, we'll see what happens.

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