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At the trade deadline Burke said that he received numerous offers on Toronto players in exchange for a first round pick. I think Burke said he had offers of that on 4 or 5 players, I can't remember. But I can guarantee that one of those players that had a first round pick offered on him was Luke Schenn. Whether various fans like it or not, many GMs in the league would be willing to give up a first rounder for Schenn if the pick would be in the mid to late round range, I doubt many would offer a top 10 or 15 pick for him at this time.
keep him...... his value is at a all time low, and his longterm potential is still important to us, its likely he will rebound and if he cuts some weight this offseason its likely that will happen
i think his problem this season was concentraition too much bulking up in the offseason which noticably slowed him down, and trying to live to his contract, gotta keep his game simple and while he looked bad this season he still made alot of hits and put up decent points totals for someone with "no offensive talent".... he can chip in more than the normal stay at home dman
i wouldnt be interested in trading him for a mid-late round 1st even, this guy still has shown promise early in his career and isnt even close to his prime, stay at home d take the longest to deevlope the fact that he had a succesful rookie season as one shows hes capable
Now this is the 2nd thread that you have tried to slip this offer through and it's still not a chance.
The threads should be merged, and then closed, because it's a perfect fit for both teams. Anyone drafted after the top 10-12 will hope to have Schenn's upside 4 years from now.
There are seven defensemen who've played more than 30 games for the Leafs this year. Luke Schenn, Dion Phaneuf, Carl Gunnarsson, Jake Gardiner, John-Michael Liles, Cody Franson, and Mike Komisarek. Among those seven, Luke Schenn ranks:
7th in TOI/game
5th in SH TOI/game
6th in PP TOI/game
5th in Quality of Competition
6th in Corsi Rel
7th in GA ON/60, while ranking 1st in GA OFF/60
Schenn's defensive play this year is mind numbingly bad. And the Leafs organization knows this - hence the low TOI and quality of competition. They don't trust him. While I do think he's young enough to change, it's troubling that his main issue seems to be that he lacks the speed to stay with forwards, because it's pretty tough to "learn" speed at his age. Right now, he's a bottom pairing defenseman who can hit and block shots but is otherwise completely unreliable in his own end - a glorified John Scott - and those sort of players don't have much trade value. At least not the trade value the Leafs would want to give up on a guy they spent a high pick on. I very much doubt he leaves the Leafs unless they're convinced he's as bad as his numbers this year suggest, in which case a 3rd rounder isn't outside the realm of possibility.
The mid-1st round of this draft is a longshot prospect. I'd rather keep Schenn for that, and hope he rebounds in Carlyle's system. Having 2 shots at mid-round success might be a different story, hence Colrado and Washington's picks.
Don't want to trade him. Vastly underrated, even by his own "fan base".
I would like to keep him as well since I think that he can become a good reliable defenceman who can play 20+ minutes a game, BUT, I don't see him ever reaching this potential while in Toronto. The Leafs could benefit from an additional first round pick and Schenn could greatly benefit from a change of scenery. As much as it pains me to say it, I personally think it is best for both parties if they go separate ways.
I would like to keep him as well since I think that he can become a good reliable defenceman who can play 20+ minutes a game, BUT, I don't see him ever reaching this potential while in Toronto. The Leafs could benefit from an additional first round pick and Schenn could greatly benefit from a change of scenery. As much as it pains me to say it, I personally think it is best for both parties if they go separate ways.
He looked real good in Toronto last year at age 21, so why not?
The mid-1st round of this draft is a longshot prospect. I'd rather keep Schenn for that, and hope he rebounds in Carlyle's system. Having 2 shots at mid-round success might be a different story, hence Colrado and Washington's picks.
As a Leaf fan, I wouldn't move Schenn for a mid 1st either. But if I were another team, I wouldn't give up anything more then a mid 1st for him.
Tbh, I don't know how well he's going to be playing for the next 10 years. He's been so damn inconsistent so far in his career. He's been alternating seasons of good and bad. He's slow as ****, gives the puck away a ton, and just makes a ton of mistakes that makes you facepalm. But at the same time, he should benefit from Carlyle's system next season, and when Schenn is playing well, he is a VERY good dman.
There are seven defensemen who've played more than 30 games for the Leafs this year. Luke Schenn, Dion Phaneuf, Carl Gunnarsson, Jake Gardiner, John-Michael Liles, Cody Franson, and Mike Komisarek. Among those seven, Luke Schenn ranks:
7th in TOI/game
5th in SH TOI/game
6th in PP TOI/game
5th in Quality of Competition
6th in Corsi Rel
7th in GA ON/60, while ranking 1st in GA OFF/60
Schenn's defensive play this year is mind numbingly bad. And the Leafs organization knows this - hence the low TOI and quality of competition. They don't trust him. While I do think he's young enough to change, it's troubling that his main issue seems to be that he lacks the speed to stay with forwards, because it's pretty tough to "learn" speed at his age. Right now, he's a bottom pairing defenseman who can hit and block shots but is otherwise completely unreliable in his own end - a glorified John Scott - and those sort of players don't have much trade value. At least not the trade value the Leafs would want to give up on a guy they spent a high pick on. I very much doubt he leaves the Leafs unless they're convinced he's as bad as his numbers this year suggest, in which case a 3rd rounder isn't outside the realm of possibility.
Schenn's number's can't be disputed, but it's ok to look at the variables included in that. Toronto played 60% of their season in a system that was completely opposite of the system Schenn would excel in. In a defence 1st system like St Louis, he'd be a stud back there. Teams don't just make trades based on how he played in RW's system, although they might want to take advantage of that.
Scouts and GM's are smart enough to evaluate Schenn's skillset and how he would fit into their system. At 22 years old, teams will hold a higher value than what people here value him at. His potential and upside is quite a bit higher than what he has shown this year. Think about the value Jack Johnson and his career -90 got from Columbus.
Schenn's number's can't be disputed, but it's ok to look at the variables included in that. Toronto played 60% of their season in a system that was completely opposite of the system Schenn would excel in. In a defence 1st system like St Louis, he'd be a stud back there. Teams don't just make trades based on how he played in RW's system, although they might want to take advantage of that.
Scouts and GM's are smart enough to evaluate Schenn's skillset and how he would fit into their system. At 22 years old, teams will hold a higher value than what people here value him at. His potential and upside is quite a bit higher than what he has shown this year. Think about the value Jack Johnson and his career -90 got from Columbus.
Since Carlyle took over, Schenn's playing time has dropped to 14:01 a night. His SH TOI has also dropped to 1:03 a night. Those totals are still 7th and 5th on the Leafs, respectively. Schenn's also a -10 over those 14 games. I can't get advanced stats over specific time periods, but what I can find sure makes it seem like Schenn's play hasn't improved in Carlyle's system, and neither has the organization's opinion of him. Admittedly a small sample size, but it's all I've got to work with.
Since Carlyle took over, Schenn's playing time has dropped to 14:01 a night. His SH TOI has also dropped to 1:03 a night. Those totals are still 7th and 5th on the Leafs, respectively. Schenn's also a -10 over those 14 games. I can't get advanced stats over specific time periods, but what I can find sure makes it seem like Schenn's play hasn't improved in Carlyle's system, and neither has the organization's opinion of him. Admittedly a small sample size, but it's all I've got to work with.
Carlyle's system is no where near where it would be when they have time to install it. Leafs also dealt with injuries to Liles and Komisarek for long periods this year, so them coming back would drop his numbers.
Schenn has also looked like a much better player since Carlyle has come by. +/- is a tough variable measure since we lost Lupul, Kulemin, and playing with 4 different goalies and the team has struggled to score goals.
Schenn's value goes beyong what he played this year. Obviously it dropped because of it, but his upside/potential goes beyond this year. He's also a 22 year old who had to live with a new contract and trade rumurs swirling most of the year. He's not the 1st to struggle under such circumstances.
Even disregarding the change in system.. Schenn is still a horrendous skater, terrible puck handler and lacks hockey sense to make smart defensive decisions ( let's also disregard his limited offensive abilities, weak shot, inconsistency). He's just not a good defenseman. We might get a late 1st pick from a team if we're lucky, but nothing more in my opinion.
