He had the obvious physical tools and I firmly believe that if he can get his other parts meshing with his physical tools he would be a steal for a GM will to gamble a bit.
The other steal later is Marcantuoni, while he has zero issues other than snake bit by injuries his skills and leadership is off the charts.
Jarrod Maidens of the Attack is another talent that should be way higher but his major concussion this year has really dropped him.
Not sure if having a major concussion like he has bodes well for him and it may be enough for him to drop out of the draft entirely.
Marcantuoni yes, the only problems this year are injuries, when he's been 100% healthy or even 80-90% he's been great.
Ebert on the other hand I really don't have any faith in. I've never seen a player regress so much defensively as Ebert has. Last year he was great, the start of this year he was still good, but he's just gotten worse and worse, even with him starting to produce more at the end of the season, he was still putrid defensively. One of the worst in the entire OHL.
For how many people hyped him and said his hockey sense was off the charts, he sure makes a tonne of bonehead mistakes that cost his team. Not even risky plays, just dumb moves. I don't think many will remember Ebert 5 years from now.
In my eyes, FF is just missing that little something( might be because i've watched him too many times past two years so i'm paying attention to their smaller flaws etc ), skillwise Teravainen is a lot better player than FF.
Well the consensus has been Forsberg. What I've seen in my limited viewing is that Forsberg has huge upside. He's got the hockey smarts and skills to be a superstar. What he lacks at the moment is finesse and experience. But that's to be expected, he's one of the youngest players in the draft.
Teravainen is a riser. Not saying he doesn't deserve praise, but to be shocked...I mean even if I thought Teravainen was the best European available I still wouldn't be the least bit surprised at this result. Just like I don't agree with Rielly at 5 Dumba at 11 Trouba at 9...but it's not surprising to me.
Dumba plays the junior game like Tootoo did, and unfortunately is undersized like Tootoo. I think the chances of him being able to translate his style of game to the NHL are pretty low, hence his drop off in the rankings.
How are they similar at all?
The obvious one is that Tootoo is a forward and Dumba a dman. Dumba is 6 feet to Tootoo's 5 foot 9, 5 foot 10.
Tootoo also played a game that was much more of a pest type role. Dumba hasn't put up half the PIM's Tootoo put up in a single WHL season.
Cam was ranked 5th among NA skaters and fell to 12
Dumba is ranked 11th (you can safely say 12 as if CSS combined the lists, Forsberg would be top 8) and will likely go top 5. Can't see Edmonton, NYI, Anaheim, Minny, Carolina, TB, and Winnipeg passing on him. Obviously we said the same thing about Couturier, Fowler, Gormley, Etem, and Murphy but it happened.
Personally i just see Dumba trending up on draft day. Plays like a Dion Phaneuf with loads of hockey iq, and team's will love his on ice attitude. He hates losing, he gives 100% every night, and he's a natural leader. I just don't see a situation where he falls farther than 8.
Well the consensus has been Forsberg. What I've seen in my limited viewing is that Forsberg has huge upside. He's got the hockey smarts and skills to be a superstar. What he lacks at the moment is finesse and experience. But that's to be expected, he's one of the youngest players in the draft.
Teravainen is a riser. Not saying he doesn't deserve praise, but to be shocked...I mean even if I thought Teravainen was the best European available I still wouldn't be the least bit surprised at this result. Just like I don't agree with Rielly at 5 Dumba at 11 Trouba at 9...but it's not surprising to me.
Forsberg might concern some teams, especially after seeing Magnus Paajarvi develop.
Forsberg, much like MPS, seems to have a great tool box of skills, but neither seem to have natural finishing ability.
You can have a good player, with tons of raw skill, and an NHL body, but if he cant consistenly put the biscuit in the basket teams will be scared off.
Not saying that Forsberg is that type of guy, he looked really dangerous at the U-20 WJC without impacting the score board...
I also dont think its fair to discount someone because they are a 'late riser', there are late risers every year....Zibanejad rings a bell on this from just last year.
- One thing that jumped out at me right away was how low Matthew Murray was on the goaltender list. Sure, he had a really up and down year in the Soo, but who didn't? And he was put in a pretty hard situation as the team's starter (playing well) before the disastrous Jack Campbell trade. This is a guy who NHL GM's wanted to see at the Top Prospect's Game, and who stole the show there. He's also got a chance to start for Canada at the Under 18's. If he's the 19th drafted North American goaltender in 2012, I'll eat my hat.
- I like the aggressive ranking of some under the radar guys like Justin Kea, Josh Anderson, and Joel Wigle. They're all terrific prospects that not a lot of people know about because they aren't getting a ton of ice time or putting up huge stats. But if you watch them play, they always impact the game in a positive way.
- Really like seeing Guelph's Zack Mitchell getting some attention on the list as a draft re-entry. He'll be near the top of my list of re-entries when I put it together closer to the draft.
- Conversely, I'm surprised Seth Griffith didn't get any love in that respect. He certainly deserves it.
- Shocked to see Adam Pelech so lowly ranked. He's a terrific stay at home defenseman with offensive upside. I hope he has a terrific Under 18's which would really boost his draft stock after a tough year in Erie.
- In terms of the "no shows" on the list. The highest guys from my own draft ranking (which won't be finalized until May) are Nathan Pancel, Ryan Rupert, and Warren Steele.
- In terms of the "wow he's that high" department. Brock McGinn is insanely highly ranked for me. I like him as a little sparkplug/energy guy, but he's near the back end of my top 50, not near my top 20.
I had to scan the list to find him...definitely surprised to see him at 120. Could that be because of his limited offensive upside.
I've seen worse players taken in the 2nd in the past, wont be surprised to see him there at draft time.
Forsberg might concern some teams, especially after seeing Magnus Paajarvi develop.
Forsberg, much like MPS, seems to have a great tool box of skills, but neither seem to have natural finishing ability.
You can have a good player, with tons of raw skill, and an NHL body, but if he cant consistenly put the biscuit in the basket teams will be scared off.
Not saying that Forsberg is that type of guy, he looked really dangerous at the U-20 WJC without impacting the score board...
I also dont think its fair to discount someone because they are a 'late riser', there are late risers every year....Zibanejad rings a bell on this from just last year.
Forsberg has 23 goals in 36 national team games, including his goalless WJC. They have some similarities with MPS but, definately not finishing ability. Forsberg is way better goalscorer, while Paajarvi is is a better playmaker.
Also, if the development of MPS(who had a good rookie campaign and almost PPG in AHL) scares some teams, then shouldn't they be scared about WHL defensemen after Hickey? or OHL forwards looking at Kadri's development?
Maybe. I just can't see one of the top defenders in the best d-group since 2008 slipping out of the top 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster
Forsberg might concern some teams, especially after seeing Magnus Paajarvi develop.
Forsberg, much like MPS, seems to have a great tool box of skills, but neither seem to have natural finishing ability.
You can have a good player, with tons of raw skill, and an NHL body, but if he cant consistenly put the biscuit in the basket teams will be scared off.
Not saying that Forsberg is that type of guy, he looked really dangerous at the U-20 WJC without impacting the score board...
I also dont think its fair to discount someone because they are a 'late riser', there are late risers every year....Zibanejad rings a bell on this from just last year.
I understand that. But shock shouldn't really be a word to describe a consensus opinion. I don't know where you can find a ranking having Teravainen over Forsberg but I'd like to see it. It shouldn't shock you that what has been a regular occurrence has repeated itself.
As for MPS, I've always thought his game was a bit soft. Relying more on speed and hands alone. Compares kind of to a Andy McDonald if he played wing. To me I see a Corey Perry with-out the agitator style in Forsberg. Great play along the boards, using size to hold onto the puck, great overall vision and mobility in the offensive zone. Plus he's super creative with the puck. I can see Forsberg dropping but probably not behind Teravainen. I've been wrong before. I think everyone around here has. It remains to be seen. Personally I'll be overjoyed if I'm wrong about some of these guys I've criticized (Rielly, Teravainen, Ceci, Collberg) and trust me I've got my fingers crossed that a team above us takes them. It's just that none of those guys make much sense from a Ducks perspective. I won't be happy if (off chance that his happens but still) we take Forsberg over Galchenyuk. Yes FF can play center, but that's not his natural position/his bread and butter. We need centers and shutdown defenders.
To me, I think that at Teravainen's highest he's at least on par with Forsberg skill-wise. Not better. I haven't seen much of him...but I already believe that Forsberg has the tools to emerge as the best forward in this draft, he just needs to be developed properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl
Forsberg has 23 goals in 36 national team games, including his goalless WJC. They have some similarities with MPS but, definately not finishing ability. Forsberg is way better goalscorer, while Paajarvi is is a better playmaker.
Also, if the development of MPS(who had a good rookie campaign and almost PPG in AHL) scares some teams, then shouldn't they be scared about WHL defensemen after Hickey? or OHL forwards looking at Kadri's development?
I see where he's coming from though. I've used this argument after I got flamed on my own board for suggesting that Forsberg is not NHL ready (cause you know...as long as a scout said so, it must be true). At this age he doesn't have the finishing needed to fit in at an NHL level. He has all the right ideas and shows he at least knows HOW to dominate, he just lacks the experience to get it done. But that's fine. He's younger. He was the youngest forward at WJC right? It's not really a surprise he was held scoreless...he'll probably have a much better tournament next year. What I saw was he is physically ready. Maybe not as much as Landeskog to say that Forsberg could handle NHL play guaranteed, but I thought from what I saw out of him that Forsberg could easily HANDLE NHL play a la Nino Niederreiter next year, so in that regard, yes he's NHL ready, but what's the point of having him there to play 10 minutes a game??
Dumba plays the junior game like Tootoo did, and unfortunately is undersized like Tootoo. I think the chances of him being able to translate his style of game to the NHL are pretty low, hence his drop off in the rankings.
What? How can you even compare them? One is a forward, who plays an agitator role and the other is a puck moving defenceman.
And Dumba isn't 'undersized like Tootoo'. Tootoo is 5'10, if that, while Dumba is just a shade under 6 feet...which is well above average for a man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor
So is the skater list.
They actually have Mitch Moroz three spots ahead of Henrik Samuelsson.
Yeah, Dumba to Central Rankings is probably like Grigorenko to Craig Button. Maybe they just don't see something they want to see in his game. That said, given his "riskiness" and the fact that people want a can't-miss prospect in the top 10, I COULD see him slipping a bit. I can't believe Morgan Rielly is so high though.
Maata deserves to be in the top 10. Surefire top four defenseman IMO. He has size, skating ability and hockey sense. Whats not to like? There is no wow factor in Hjalmarsson but he is good.
Location: Gary Coleman's Finishing School for Doomsday Devices
Posts: 2,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbtatter
Dumba plays the junior game like Tootoo did, and unfortunately is undersized like Tootoo. I think the chances of him being able to translate his style of game to the NHL are pretty low, hence his drop off in the rankings.
Tootoo was measured as 5'8" by Central Scouting in his draft year while Dumba's almost 6'0". So there's no size comparison. Plus all Tootoo really brings is physicality unlike Dumba who has an extremely high skill level and the hitting is just an added bonus. And regardless, Tootoo's actually fulfilled most reasonable projections in being a regular bottom 6er as a 4th round pick, so he's not even a good example of a player being disappointing.
And oh yes, one's a defenceman and the other is a forward.
The obvious one is that Tootoo is a forward and Dumba a dman. Dumba is 6 feet to Tootoo's 5 foot 9, 5 foot 10.
Tootoo also played a game that was much more of a pest type role. Dumba hasn't put up half the PIM's Tootoo put up in a single WHL season.
Just a bad comparison.
I was aware that one's a dman and one's a forward
They play the same way. A physical role that works in the dub, but they're both too small to play the same way in the NHL. Dumba's not 6', he's listed as that, but he's more like 5'10".
I was aware that one's a dman and one's a forward
They play the same way. A physical role that works in the dub, but they're both too small to play the same way in the NHL. Dumba's not 6', he's listed as that, but he's more like 5'10".
Dumba doesn't actually play that physical, except for his big open ice hits.
Second of all, he's not closer to 5'10. I've stood beside him while he's in socked feet. He's atleast 5'11 because I was just a shade taller than him while I am 6 feet tall and in dress shoes at the time.
What? How can you even compare them? One is a forward, who plays an agitator role and the other is a puck moving defenceman.
And Dumba isn't 'undersized like Tootoo'. Tootoo is 5'10, if that, while Dumba is just a shade under 6 feet...which is well above average for a man.
I'm comparing the way they both played in the dub. Both smaller physical guys who's aggressivness let them be noticed. Unfortunately, both smaller, and as we see with Tootoo, just not effective with that same style in the NHL.
You love Dumba's potential in the NHL, I don't. Time will tell who's right.
I love Pulocks potential in the NHL, you don't. Time will tell who's right
Meanwhile, how badly do your Blades need to blow up their team for next season
Last edited by sbtatter: 04-09-2012 at 01:10 PM.
Reason: WHL, not NHL was my original typo
Poor Habs and Leafs fans.
