Are there problems — sure. But I understand the thinking behind Rolston. It was a gamble. Would it have made a difference if he had kept Hunter??
Pando has been a reasonable PKer. As a 1-year stop gap, I have limited issues here.
You think Smyth was random?
You think moving up to take de Haan and Nelson were random?
Was Travis Hamonic a best guess?
There are problems — again — I have never said I did not think there weren't.
But to suggest that Snow has been as bad as Milbury — No — sorry — lets just agree to disagree.
As far as P.A. and Moulson.... I dont give a rats behind if they are playing on a line with John Tavares or John Wilkes Booth! They are putting themselves in the position needed to produce. Period! You want to knock our GM for that? Seriously?
You want to be a pissy about it — hey thats cool. Its your right. That goes for ALL Isles fans. But seriously — can we at least give a minute amount of credit for something good that happens?
Hamonic was a great pick, yet he did pick Trivino and Ness before Hamonic. Do you think Snow "strategically waited" for Hamonic? or was there some luck involved?
I love Hamonic, he's the best defenseman on a lousy team. But I'm not going to reward the GM for draft picks just like we don't blame him for "passing" on Jordan Eberle, Tyler Myers.
----
Giving credit for something good that happened is important....so is blaming what didn't happen.
Sounds like I'm picking on PAP and Moulson but I am not. I'm suggesting that these players MAYBE aren't good enough to make the team better. I'm suggesting that having TWO one-dimensional, slow, non-physical players on the TOP LINE isn't the best way to win games. I'm suggest THAT DECISION was a POOR ONE, IN SPITE OF the good stats produced by these players.
How happy is Burke having Lupul and Kessel as two top scorers in the NHL? YAY!
You bet I'm pissy, and Isles fans SHOULD BE. There are some positives in this sad story but they are limited to: Tavares, Hamonic, Martin, Nabokov.
Only Columbus has fewer regulation wins than the NYI.
Only Columbus has a worse goal differential.
Isles are DEAD last in winning when leading after two periods.
How many coaches who have back to back bottom five finishes survive? (yes i know cappy was only apart of the team half of last season)
How many GM's survive to make as many Lottery picks as Snow?
The Leafs, Montreal, and Ducks have all made moves within their front office because their team was not producing. I'm sure other non playoff teams will be poised to make a move once the season is over. But here on Long Island we stay the course.
Pro sports is a results business, fand rankly the results are sad. We as fans have to demand more, year one or two, I had no problem giving Snow the benefit of the doubt, but come on it's been 6 years now, when does the rebuild EVER end?
I'm tired of people saying well they were in contention for a playoff spot until Saturday. Any fan who has watched all season knows that is a joke, this team was out of it during that awful losing streak in November. Sure they made it interesting, but for a second year in a row they dug a hole way to deep to climb out of.
It comes down to accountability, this team has none, which is why guys like Cappy and Snow keep their jobs and we as fans get to talk draft each december.
The Flyers added Matt Read (outta nowhere), Sean Couturier, Claude Giroux was a late first rounder. They also added Brayden Schenn. They also managed to trade for some nice pieces like Timonen, Hartnell, Pronger.
Bottom line, they are showing results.
Islanders are not.
Are we talking about how well the Isles have drafted... or what they've done to develop a winner and winning culture?
We KNOW they haven't done the latter.
I'm only commenting on the nominal promise of the actual picks. Running the organization is another thing.
Quote:
(on Moulson and Parenteau)
They have good stats but they are very limited players. Bottom line is, these players, as they are currently constructed, are among the worst in the NHL. Harsh truth.
We can look for individual success stories all we want, but the team is a failure, the worst 5on5 team in the NHL (next to Columbus) and picking top five again.
Still doesn't mean that Snow didn't find two guys from the AHL scrapheap who now, for whatever reasons, have contributed 48, 53, 53, 65+ and 65+ points in 5 total seasons between them.
If we're gonna anaylze the Snowjob, we gotta give credit where it is due, even if that isn't in many situations.
Then again, Moulson and Parenteau have also done their fair share in making use of their opportunities.
Quote:
If players like Strome, Niederreiter, deHaan, Donovan, Nilsson, Poulin DON'T emerge over the next 2-3 years, this team will never get better.
I fear this is our lot in life. We have no reason to believe that the proper things will be done to make this team competitive or that the kids will be groomed properly, most particularly the 1st rounders. Only Tavares has (successfully) survived being thrown to the wolves. de Haan and Nelson have been spared that. Dunno if Strome will face it next year.
Must hope that the boys somehow turn into a winner, cause it's gonna have to be on their own.
Quote:
This year we had a healthy Tavares who emerged as a real star in the NHL - a top ten scorer. We had Moulson playing as well as he ever has (offensively, anyway), same for Parenteau. Streit was healthy, the whole team was very healthy (except for DiPietro) and they are still near bottom.
All we have is another year of excuses and status quo.
It's all very disappointing. Let it out RB, let it out.
It's simple - either the draft picks find a way to win on their own, or our recent years of general failure will be repeated, year for year.
It means that the people *****ing about our guys not being veterans after 4 years are full of ****. All those guys have around the same amount of time in the league.
Lets call a spade a spade... it's not about service time to you people.... it's how good a player you are.
This roster is full of players that have played in all kinds of tournaments and post seasons in the lower leagues, in conjunction with the players you mentioned.
Adam Burish has a cup.... should we trade Matt Martin for him? We got a couple young defenseman that had plenty of PO experience before.... Brent Sopel, Wiz. How did those guys work out? PO experience is nice, but highly over rated.
AGAIN, you guys say you want veterans.... you SAY you want guys with PO experience... but you really want GOOD players regardless of age or experience. Because THAT is what makes a team good.
Awesome, I'm waiting to hear exactly how we get such a player.
and I was on a "championship" team in little league. Doesn't mean I know what it takes to win in the pros.
This team absolutely needs more talent, and ideally that talent should have already been in the league for 7 or so years & have won. Of course no one is going to complain if they got a player with Rick Nash's ability but has never won. But ideally you look for talent who has won before.
No you don't trade Adam Burish to replace Matt Martin, but it isn't the bottom 6 that are holding the Islanders back so much. It's their complete lack of a real 2nd line. Our current 2nd line (that took the coach 65 games to figure out), should be our 3rd line if we're ever going to be a great team. and right now (no ullstrom/Czikas) the only player on the bottom 6 that should remain with the club next year is Matt Martin.
And no, the 24 year old star isn't available. But the 27-30 year old star is. and how do you get them? The same way every team gets them. You sign or trade for them.
Are we talking about how well the Isles have drafted... or what they've done to develop a winner and winning culture?
We KNOW they haven't done the latter.
I'm only commenting on the nominal promise of the actual picks. Running the organization is another thing.
I like the picks too. I also see promise. But to me, there's little difference between unrealized potential and outright failure.
Reading these boards, seems that the potential for greatness is better than being good now. Fans are buying into the illusion of hope, not-so-cleverly disguised as cap manipulation and fraud.
Quote:
Still doesn't mean that Snow didn't find two guys from the AHL scrapheap who now, for whatever reasons, have contributed 48, 53, 53, 65+ and 65+ points in 5 total seasons between them.
If we're gonna anaylze the Snowjob, we gotta give credit where it is due, even if that isn't in many situations.
Then again, Moulson and Parenteau have also done their fair share in making use of their opportunities.
Moulson and Parenteau have been very good at scoring...very bad at everything else.
The team is DEAD LAST in some key categories like 5on5 play, goal differential and record when leading after two periods.
DEAD LAST.
Maybe there's something to be said about not taking dumb penalties, back-checking, blocking shots, working the boards, playing tough...things the Isles desperately lack up and down the line-up.
We can blame the 4th line all we want, they don't get big minutes.
I'd say Parenteau and Moulson are among the worst 5on5 players on the team, despite the +/- stats. I think Tavares is the best (by far) BOTH offensively and defensively on that line, and the other two really HURT the team 5on5.
I don't blame the players. I blame the coach and the GM, moreso Snow because it's not like Capuano has many options.
Failing to recognize & address the needs of the team - it's on Snow.
So it's a much deeper issue that just looking at the good offensive numbers by two ex-minor-leaguers.
I look at a TEAM that's among the worst in the NHL and I see major holes. Now, Parenteau and Moulson are NOT the biggest holes on the team, far from it. I just think it's dangerous to tell yourself happy stories of personal success (like the team did last year in the second half run) and not address the holes.
Sounds like Wang has already decided some things and that's sad for all of us.
"It's not like we're getting killed out there" - says the owner of the team with the worst or second worst goal differential in hockey.
How can such an awful team get better with so many untouchables on a bottom five team? Our top three lines are set and top three dmen and of course, our goaltending. See you in September.
Capuano fails to motivate his team on a consistent basis. He has to go. It's not even like he makes a secret of it anymore. He outright declares it in post game press conferences.
Anyways, looks like Wang giving the typical "vote of confidence" which most owners/GMs offer up before firing people.
Are we talking about how well the Isles have drafted... or what they've done to develop a winner and winning culture?
We KNOW they haven't done the latter.
I'm only commenting on the nominal promise of the actual picks. Running the organization is another thing.
Still doesn't mean that Snow didn't find two guys from the AHL scrapheap who now, for whatever reasons, have contributed 48, 53, 53, 65+ and 65+ points in 5 total seasons between them.
If we're gonna anaylze the Snowjob, we gotta give credit where it is due, even if that isn't in many situations.
Then again, Moulson and Parenteau have also done their fair share in making use of their opportunities.
I fear this is our lot in life. We have no reason to believe that the proper things will be done to make this team competitive or that the kids will be groomed properly, most particularly the 1st rounders. Only Tavares has (successfully) survived being thrown to the wolves. de Haan and Nelson have been spared that. Dunno if Strome will face it next year.
Must hope that the boys somehow turn into a winner, cause it's gonna have to be on their own.
It's all very disappointing. Let it out RB, let it out.
It's simple - either the draft picks find a way to win on their own, or our recent years of general failure will be repeated, year for year.
I disagree, at their respective ages Josh Bailey and Kyle Okposo have started to come into their own. If this was a different franchise *Cough* Detroit Red Wings *Cough* Josh and Kyle would most likely be beginning their rookie seasons. I'm not saying I agree with rushing our prospects, but I don't think that all have been necessarily "ruined"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto91
Yup
Would of liked to see a winner Like Ron Wilson.....Nabby to feel at Home
Agree ...Cappy has really only shown he can make faces....coaching...hmmmm not really sure
Winner? He was terrible with the waffles...
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull
I like the picks too. I also see promise. But to me, there's little difference between unrealized potential and outright failure.
Reading these boards, seems that the potential for greatness is better than being good now. Fans are buying into the illusion of hope, not-so-cleverly disguised as cap manipulation and fraud.
Moulson and Parenteau have been very good at scoring...very bad at everything else.
The team is DEAD LAST in some key categories like 5on5 play, goal differential and record when leading after two periods.
DEAD LAST.
Maybe there's something to be said about not taking dumb penalties, back-checking, blocking shots, working the boards, playing tough...things the Isles desperately lack up and down the line-up.
We can blame the 4th line all we want, they don't get big minutes.
I'd say Parenteau and Moulson are among the worst 5on5 players on the team, despite the +/- stats. I think Tavares is the best (by far) BOTH offensively and defensively on that line, and the other two really HURT the team 5on5.
I don't blame the players. I blame the coach and the GM, moreso Snow because it's not like Capuano has many options.
Failing to recognize & address the needs of the team - it's on Snow.
So it's a much deeper issue that just looking at the good offensive numbers by two ex-minor-leaguers.
I look at a TEAM that's among the worst in the NHL and I see major holes. Now, Parenteau and Moulson are NOT the biggest holes on the team, far from it. I just think it's dangerous to tell yourself happy stories of personal success (like the team did last year in the second half run) and not address the holes.
Sounds like Wang has already decided some things and that's sad for all of us.
"It's not like we're getting killed out there" - says the owner of the team with the worst or second worst goal differential in hockey.
How can such an awful team get better with so many untouchables on a bottom five team? Our top three lines are set and top three dmen and of course, our goaltending. See you in September.
While I agree they are not the best defensive group of fowards, their job on the first line is to score goals. They are not the problem with this team. The problem is the clown behind the bench and the lack of puck moving defenseman. If Staios, Jurcina, Eaton, and Mottau knew what to do with the puck, then we'd be a better team. We all know Wang lays down restrictions on Snow but it is possible to win under those constraints. Snow, while he has done all the right things to rebuild our prospect pool and resign RFAs to hometown discounts, it's the things he hasn't done that upsets fans.
A great job???? If A lottery pick each year for the last 7 years is a great job for you then please tell me you manage a company and if so can I get a job working for you.
He said based on the financial constraints. {MOD EDIT}
You can't get blood from a stone. If you can show me the other 30 managers that are doing that....
So tired of inept reading comprehension...
Last edited by Homeland Security: 04-03-2012 at 09:01 AM.
Reason: Edited
and just for those who didn't actually watch the interview... Wang is falling prey to what happened last season. Isles looked good down the stretch, especially when there was nothing to play for and they are doing the same thing now. Wang sees no reason to ditch Cappy if the Nielsen line has this capability. He thinks they will perform all season like Nielsen Okposo Grabs were supposed to this season. It didn't happen and the team had no secondary scoring and pretty much no chance with out a 2nd line clicking.
Present day, Wang thinks that these guys will do the same thing next season and make us a lock for at the very least the playoffs (i disagree entirely, there are still glaring issues). Anyway, he made it clear that now is not the time to drop anybody but he mentioned that he will have to see what October and November are like. Wang CERTAINLY did not lock in Cappy as the coach of the far future with what he said. All he said was he doesn't see a reason to make a change right now.
Many of us disagree but it doesn't make Wang an idiot either. IF Capuano can get Bailey and Okposo playing that way all season then he deserves to stay IMO, i just don't think he is going to do that. I anticipate a quick trigger by Wang and Snow next season on Cappy, just watch and wait.
Snow is not the worst GM in the league, but also not one of the best. It's great that he was able to sign young core players to reasonable contracts (not like Myers or Doughty), but he needs to get real veteran players and be prepared to deal good prospects for it. I appreciate the fact that he's patient with the kids and wants to build a core from within. But without good veteran support added (like Nabokov) a rebuild through the draft can take way longer than 5 years. Pittsburgh and Chicago are an exception, because they both got three elite talents (Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Keith, Toews & Kane) through the draft. Except for Keith, they all immediately improved the team. That's not the case with the Isles.
Capuano hasn't shown the ability to develop young players (Nino, Bailey) and frankly I see no game plan and/or system in his coaching. He gets outcoached almost in every critical situation and he doesn't know how to stabilize the defense. He is not a NHL calibre coach.
IMHO the Isles should get Mark Crawford from ZSC Lions in Switzerland, former Stanley Cup coach of the Avalanche. He has a good reputation around the league and he knows what it takes to win. Something this team lacks. Except for Weight there is no one in the organization with a cup ring and it shows...
Aside from the Blue Jackets being awful (61 pts), the bottom 10 teams in the league currently range from 73-81 pts. The Isles have 77. Here's a look at the cap hits of the bottom 10:
1) Blue Jackets: 61.4 (0.97 mil per pt)
2) Oilers: 60.5 (0.81 mil per pt)
3) Canadiens: 62.2 (0.82 mil per pt)
4) Islanders: 49.1 (0.61 mil per pt)
5) Ducks: 59.6 (0.75 mil per pt)
6) Maple Leafs: 63.5 (0.79 mil per pt)
7) Hurricanes: 50.4 (0.62 mil per pt)
8) Wild: 55.9 (0.69 mil per pt)
9) Jets: 51.9 (0.62 mil per pt)
10) Lightning: 60.9 (0.73 mil per pt)
Of the bottom 10, the Isles have done the most with their cap space. We can ***** and moan about the inexperience of our GM/Coach duo all we want (and rightfully so). However, it has to be pointed out that the teams listed above are either in the same boat or worse off than we are going forward. "Great" GM/Coach tandems like Burke/Carlisle have arguably had a worse season than we have, with even less in terms of future outlook.
While a change from Capuano would be a welcome one, the bottom line is we need to close the talent gap by adding some NHL talent to a roster while allowing our high-upside prospects to hone their skills at lesser leagues. Somehow I feel like if we add Parise and Suter in the offseason (unlikely as it is), doubts about Capuano would decrease. Coaching in the NHL is very unpredictable. Even the greats have trouble winning with a sub-par roster.
There are very few bad coaches in the league, if any. And those calling for experienced coaches, fail to consider that past successes do not equate to future success. Also, a coach is only as good as the roster he's given.
Aside from the Blue Jackets being awful (61 pts), the bottom 10 teams in the league currently range from 73-81 pts. The Isles have 77. Here's a look at the cap hits of the bottom 10:
1) Blue Jackets: 61.4 (0.97 mil per pt)
2) Oilers: 60.5 (0.81 mil per pt)
3) Canadiens: 62.2 (0.82 mil per pt)
4) Islanders: 49.1 (0.61 mil per pt)
5) Ducks: 59.6 (0.75 mil per pt)
6) Maple Leafs: 63.5 (0.79 mil per pt)
7) Hurricanes: 50.4 (0.62 mil per pt)
8) Wild: 55.9 (0.69 mil per pt)
9) Jets: 51.9 (0.62 mil per pt)
10) Lightning: 60.9 (0.73 mil per pt)
Of the bottom 10, the Isles have done the most with their cap space. We can ***** and moan about the inexperience of our GM/Coach duo all we want (and rightfully so). However, it has to be pointed out that the teams listed above are either in the same boat or worse off than we are going forward. "Great" GM/Coach tandems like Burke/Carlisle have arguably had a worse season than we have, with even less in terms of future outlook.
While a change from Capuano would be a welcome one, the bottom line is we need to close the talent gap by adding some NHL talent to a roster while allowing our high-upside prospects to hone their skills at lesser leagues. Somehow I feel like if we add Parise and Suter in the offseason (unlikely as it is), doubts about Capuano would decrease. Coaching in the NHL is very unpredictable. Even the greats have trouble winning with a sub-par roster.
There are very few bad coaches in the league, if any. And those calling for experienced coaches, fail to consider that past successes do not equate to future success. Also, a coach is only as good as the roster he's given.
If we brought in Parise and Suter we'd be a playoff team. Talented teams get you into the playoffs, good coaches with talented teams will get you championships. Capuano is not a good coach. If we had a good coach we'd be a playoff team, but not a championships caliber team because of lack of talent. This is a tough concept that I'm trying to explain but it makes sense.
I hate Charles Wang. And I think that he's been wrong about just about everything. However, Chaz and I do think similarly with one item; like him, I also regret that he bought the Islanders.
I disagree, at their respective ages Josh Bailey and Kyle Okposo have started to come into their own. If this was a different franchise *Cough* Detroit Red Wings *Cough* Josh and Kyle would most likely be beginning their rookie seasons. I'm not saying I agree with rushing our prospects, but I don't think that all have been necessarily "ruined"
Well, I was only speaking of Snow's first round picks (he came shortly after Okposo).
This said, Bailey has not been considered a wild success of a first round pick. I still think he'll be a fine NHLer, but there are amazingly good arguments that he was 'rushed' and that his relative lack of success can be largely contributed to that.
And that was the crux of what I was saying.
So if you ask me, I'm not looking forward to seeing Strome in our line-up next season, much less whoever is taken this summer.
Another thing - if it is our turn to draft and ANY one of Grigorenko, Yakupov or Galchenyuk is available, do expect Washington to make a HARD push for moving up, likely including their two firsts AND a viable NHL player.
and just for those who didn't actually watch the interview... Wang is falling prey to what happened last season. Isles looked good down the stretch, especially when there was nothing to play for and they are doing the same thing now. Wang sees no reason to ditch Cappy if the Nielsen line has this capability. He thinks they will perform all season like Nielsen Okposo Grabs were supposed to this season. It didn't happen and the team had no secondary scoring and pretty much no chance with out a 2nd line clicking.
Present day, Wang thinks that these guys will do the same thing next season and make us a lock for at the very least the playoffs (i disagree entirely, there are still glaring issues). Anyway, he made it clear that now is not the time to drop anybody but he mentioned that he will have to see what October and November are like. Wang CERTAINLY did not lock in Cappy as the coach of the far future with what he said. All he said was he doesn't see a reason to make a change right now.
Many of us disagree but it doesn't make Wang an idiot either. IF Capuano can get Bailey and Okposo playing that way all season then he deserves to stay IMO, i just don't think he is going to do that. I anticipate a quick trigger by Wang and Snow next season on Cappy, just watch and wait.
But it does make him an idiot. Why on earth would he expect different results from a team that has shown nothing all year? because of a couple of decent games they string together when they are already eliminated. Not learning from his mistakes does in fact make him an idiot.
And why should we wait and watch. We've been waiting and watching for the past 5 years of this "rebuild" when is the waiting over?
I understand that he's a cheap ****, fine. But why does he have to make the team suffer by not giving them a real coach. That is the one position that I would like filled more than any other next year. This team certainly has its shortcomings in other areas but they do have talent. They need a coach that will get the most out of his players. Cappy is not that guy. period.
But it does make him an idiot. Why on earth would he expect different results from a team that has shown nothing all year? because of a couple of decent games they string together when they are already eliminated. Not learning from his mistakes does in fact make him an idiot.
And why should we wait and watch. We've been waiting and watching for the past 5 years of this "rebuild" when is the waiting over?
I understand that he's a cheap ****, fine. But why does he have to make the team suffer by not giving them a real coach. That is the one position that I would like filled more than any other next year. This team certainly has its shortcomings in other areas but they do have talent. They need a coach that will get the most out of his players. Cappy is not that guy. period.
Hockey is different than winning the lottery. You don't just get "lucky" one day and play well. The line has talent. Nobody has argued that Okposo and Bailey haven't shown talent. The problem is inconsistency. That can stem from a players psyche or ****** coaching. I don't think Wang is ready to chalk it up to ****** coaching and I don't think he's an idiot for not thinking that way. I do agree we need an NHL caliber coach in here immediately but I can completely understand Wang's choice to stick with Cappy for now. I think Wang knows that the free agent spurning we get is keep this team from being a true contender and deep down inside he knows there isn't any coach that would have gotten this team in the playoffs with what they had to work with. Once we have playoff talent things will be a different story.
I disagree with Wang but the logic behind it does not make him an idiot. The team didn't regress from last year so technically Cappy has done better with them. They still lack talent to succeed unfortunately.
I am beginning to think that our idiot owner and idiot GM might actually be completely oblivious to how disillusioned most Isles fans are with the team they once loved.
I did not even know about this, but apparently Snow had two private sit-downs with groups of season ticket holders before recent games (according to Dee Karl's most recent Hockey Buzz post -- http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Dee-K...Fans/129/43520 -- and yes, I and many others on here know that most of her writing is laughable in terms of drinking the kool-aid, but my point has nothing to do with the article itself). It essentially sounds like it was a bromance fest between the attendees and Garth Snow, who supposedly answered any question asked of him.
It is mind-boggling to me, how you could get Garth Snow in a room and not even one devoted season ticket holder would ask him the obvious questions -- 1) how is it progress when we have finished in the bottom 5 of the NHL for 5 straight years, an almost unheard of feat of shame... 2) When will this team not use buyouts and bonus clauses to get over the salary cap floor and actually field a team with CURRENT PLAYERS with combined salary that goes over the minimum...3)Is it not finally time to add some talented veterans that are still in their prime and not over the hill, to help the handful of actually talented young players on the roster.
How is it possible none of these questions and many more were not asked? Are fans intimidated by this clown? How do we expect them to know how upset we really are if the few times either of these idiots is available to field actual questions, nobody asks them anything tough. I just dont get it.
BECAUSE they are season ticket holders {MOD EDIT} Either they have more money than brains and probably didn't even show up to the sit down, or they like the direction the team is headed hence they keep buying season tickets. They aren't having a sit down with people who just recently didn't renew their season tickets. DUH!
Last edited by Homeland Security: 04-03-2012 at 08:41 PM.
If you ask me, the team got much worse, but the goaltending improved to balance it out.
Agreed. Obviously there was some personal growth this year amongst some of the players, but as I team I definitely feel as though they regressed this year without a doubt.
He said based on the financial constraints. {MOD EDIT}
You can't get blood from a stone. If you can show me the other 30 managers that are doing that....
So tired of inept reading comprehension...
Im tired of inept responses by you trying to paint Wang/Snow as hero's fact remains the guy is awful and if Garth Snow were let go today can you honestly tell me another organization would hire him as a GM?
