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2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART III

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Old
04-06-2012, 08:29 AM
  #51
BennyBST
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
So I'm assuming from that post that you've already written off 19 year old Nino? It's funny, because I suppose if Nelson was playing in the NHL this year instead of North Dakota he'd be considered a bust as well.
Nino just hasn't shown me anything, even when he was on his conditioning stint in BPT he didn't show me much. I'm not the only one either, several season ticket holders also agreed. I honestly don't know what his upside is, and I'd be shocked if he scores 15 goals in a season. I feel that David Ullstrom will be a better NHL player. Nino could be the swiss version of Jason Bonsignore.


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04-06-2012, 08:38 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BennyBST View Post
Nino just hasn't shown me anything, even when he was on his conditioning stint in BPT he didn't show me much. I'm not the only one either, several season ticket holders also agreed. I honestly don't know what his upside is, and I'd be shocked if he scores 15 goals in a season. I feel that David Ullstrom will be a better NHL player.
Ullstrom is a solid player, but he's also 4 years older than Nino. I get it, you aren't high on him, and I respect that. But to write the kid off completely at this point in his career just seems a little premature to me. He is a hard-working kid. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he goes into next year's TC with a chip on his shoulder and becomes an impact player for us next season.

I'm sure you will disagree with that, which is your opinion and I respect that, but at least wait for this kid to reach the age of 20 before you write him off.

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04-06-2012, 08:45 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Ullstrom is a solid player, but he's also 4 years older than Nino. I get it, you aren't high on him, and I respect that. But to write the kid off completely at this point in his career just seems a little premature to me. He is a hard-working kid. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he goes into next year's TC with a chip on his shoulder and becomes an impact player for us next season.

I'm sure you will disagree with that, which is your opinion and I respect that, but at least wait for this kid to reach the age of 20 before you write him off.
I really don't want to write him off, he needs an entire season with Bridgeport with a good tutor in Brent Thompson. I don't care if Nino scores 30 in the AHL next season, just don't call him up no matter what. He needs to make up for all of the development time he lost this season. Bailey was rushed but I always saw more potential from him vs Nino. Nino needs more than playing time, he needs to work on his skating a lot!

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04-06-2012, 09:05 AM
  #54
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Big, poward forward-type wingers traditionally tend to be slower developers. Nino is way too young to even be particularly concerned about, let alone writing off. At 19 John Leclair was, I believe, still at U VT, and then he struggled in the pros for awhile until things clicked as he was approaching 25 as I recall.

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04-06-2012, 09:14 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BennyBST View Post
I really don't want to write him off, he needs an entire season with Bridgeport with a good tutor in Brent Thompson. I don't care if Nino scores 30 in the AHL next season, just don't call him up no matter what. He needs to make up for all of the development time he lost this season. Bailey was rushed but I always saw more potential from him vs Nino. Nino needs more than playing time, he needs to work on his skating a lot!
I think having the mindset of keeping him in BP no matter what is just as bad as guaranteeing him a spot in the NHL next year. His play in TC should determine where he goes next season. If he plays well in the pre-season then he should be given a shot with the Islanders. The kid is tough and has size, and if he's putting the puck in the net in TC I think it would be a crime to send him to BP to start the year.

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04-06-2012, 09:34 AM
  #56
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Nino's year with the Islanders has been a disaster on many levels.
Only 1 goal is abysmal, you would think he could score a few more just by accident, but it hasn't happened.
That is still no reason to conclude that he will never be productive, or even decide what the outcome of his professional career might be.
The NHL is not the place to develop very young players who are ot ready. There are a few other young kids taken as high draft picks who have struggled when brought right in, Seguin last year, Connolly this year, Boedkker.
Nino needs some time away from the game to train, fix some evident flaws in skating and processing the game, get his confidence back. Then he needs to develop in a development league suited to his present abilities......the AHL. We will see after a full year (or more) what he has to offer during his career.

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04-06-2012, 06:32 PM
  #57
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Where is Anton Klementyev?

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04-06-2012, 06:37 PM
  #58
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I think Nino proved that he can score when hes playing in the top 6 with skilled line mates.... When he just turned 19 and had his rehab stint in Bport he did pretty good.


Playing less than 10 min a nite on a defensive line with no skill would hurt anyone, especially a 19 year old rookie....

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04-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #59
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Where is Anton Klementyev?
He went back to Russia.

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04-06-2012, 07:30 PM
  #60
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He went back to Russia.
Will he ever be back?

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04-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #61
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Will he ever be back?
He's no longer Islanders property. They waived him.

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04-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #62
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Will he ever be back?
I would guess that he won't. He's no Radulov. He was a borderline prospect and he projected to no better than a 6th d-man at the NHL level...if he was lucky!

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04-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #63
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Will he ever be back?
He was demoted to the ECHL after having been a fairly regular scratch in BPort. Couldn't win out a job over Olson/Olesky.

He didn't report to his assignment. He was then suspended. He ultimately headed back to Russia.

I don't think we'll see him again.

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04-07-2012, 03:12 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think having the mindset of keeping him in BP no matter what is just as bad as guaranteeing him a spot in the NHL next year. His play in TC should determine where he goes next season. If he plays well in the pre-season then he should be given a shot with the Islanders. The kid is tough and has size, and if he's putting the puck in the net in TC I think it would be a crime to send him to BP to start the year.
No.

Power foreward, AWFUL skills this year only by the end don't look horrid but at best spotty....the Red Wings wouldn't know this kid was on US soil for three years minimum and he'd be great when he got to the team. We decide to Lindros him. He's been awful. If he's good in camp, it hopefully helps him go to the Bridge with confidence.

Power forewards take time to develop, like goalies.

Just be patient....or tell me you don't know why the past nearly twenty years happened the way they did.

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04-07-2012, 03:55 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think having the mindset of keeping him in BP no matter what is just as bad as guaranteeing him a spot in the NHL next year. His play in TC should determine where he goes next season. If he plays well in the pre-season then he should be given a shot with the Islanders. The kid is tough and has size, and if he's putting the puck in the net in TC I think it would be a crime to send him to BP to start the year.
exactly. there is no rulebook that reveals the secret to unlocking the mystery that is a prospect. each has to be 'guided' in their own unique way. i've been told that a player learns alot more while practicing at a higher level, than playing at a lower level, and i believe it.

so, while he hasn't had an impact at the NHL level, i don't believe that he's been ruined.

hopefully, Snow&Co are reading him correctly, and he has a better year than last... LOTS of time for him to improve. the vast majority of players break out around 23 or 24 years old. still has 5-6 years to prove himself, IMO

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04-07-2012, 07:15 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
No.

Power foreward, AWFUL skills this year only by the end don't look horrid but at best spotty....the Red Wings wouldn't know this kid was on US soil for three years minimum and he'd be great when he got to the team. We decide to Lindros him. He's been awful. If he's good in camp, it hopefully helps him go to the Bridge with confidence.

Power forewards take time to develop, like goalies.

Just be patient....or tell me you don't know why the past nearly twenty years happened the way they did.
Nino in 2011-12 season with the Isles (forget he is 19, just a statement of fact).

Poor acceleration
Slow skater
Poor lateral movement
Very poor defensive awareness
Very good shot when he gets it off
Out of position without the puck
Willingness to take the body
Weak on the puck
Weak in board battles


These are where Nino is right now.
The positives he has to build around are his excellent release and his willingness to engage.

Everything else needs some massive work. The good thing is that they are fixable with some time, and hard work.
For his size he is not very strong. That can easily be fixed.
His skating can be improved, he has decent top end speed already.
His on ice awareness defensively and without the puck will just take understanding and time.
He is more or less a future Matt Moulson.....better shot, bigger body, more willing to engage physically. This is not a bad thing. His potential is greater than Moulson because he is so young.
Terrible now, it is crazy to write off a future 35 goal scorer.

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Old
04-07-2012, 08:13 AM
  #67
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Last night in the OHL playoffs, game 1 for Niagara, Ryan Strome had a goal in a 2-1 OT win.
In the Q, Kirill Kabanov with a big night. A goal and 3 assists, but Chicotimi beat Shawnigan 7-6 in OT.

Its always positive to see prospects step it up when it matters most.

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04-07-2012, 08:15 AM
  #68
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Can we remember that NINO has to be one of the youngest players in the NHL. He was one of the youngest players in his draft year....and rightly or wrongly, the isles chose to have him tag along for this NHL season rather than send him back to juniors. He spent the entire year plugging along on the 4th line and playing with god awful offensive players.

Clearly he is not ready for the NHL. However, rather than over expose him by putting him on top lines....they brought him along very slowly and taught him the defensive game.

He was willing to engage physically and he had some nice rushes....and while he started off very quickly getting to a -16...he ended a -29. Terrible...i'll admit...but when marty reasoner is a -25....I dont think we can be totally dismayed....

So let him stay in the AHL next year...and maybe start the year after that too. I think you will see someone dominate the AHL next year....

As an aside, i dont think i've been as excited to see a line in bridgeport as I will be next year to see Nino-Nelson-Kabanov/Petrov....wow.

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04-07-2012, 09:44 AM
  #69
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Can we compare Nino to Sundstrom in any way? Sundtrom enters an adult league gets limited minutes and only has 1 goal in 41 games in his draft year and still goes in the 2nd round. Nino's first year in an adult league, and the fact its the NHL and not SEL helps Nino's case, he has similar production (yes I know he joined at an older age). Yet Nino is titled a bust by so many already and Sundstrom is very hyped because of his overall game on both sides of the puck. I was impressed with Sundstrom in the WJC against kids but people are so hard on Nino. I don't buy the cap hit thing and feel this could be good for his development in the end.

I honestly don't think he played all that bad. Just wasn't playing a scoring roll and more of a checker which is maybe what he lacked in Juniors and looked somewhat confused on the ice at first. He absolutely plows through players even at the NHL level and rarely falls down. I hope he goes back into a scoring roll in the AHL using what he learned then he is the definition of a power foward and will be a beast if he puts it all together. The NHL shouldn't be used as a development tool but if he wasn't getting what Isles management thought he needed in Portland then they didn't have a choice but to give him limited ice time.

Many players develop defensive games before they go pro or hit the NHL level (Tavares even), maybe he didn't have that opportunity in Portland. The AHL would have been ideal but on the bright side, Nino has progressed defensively since his first game this year and is a good checker now imo. I'm staying positive and saying that his roll on the third/forth line will only strengthen his overall game.

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04-07-2012, 11:53 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by StumpNYI View Post
Can we compare Nino to Sundstrom in any way? Sundtrom enters an adult league gets limited minutes and only has 1 goal in 41 games in his draft year and still goes in the 2nd round. Nino's first year in an adult league, and the fact its the NHL and not SEL helps Nino's case, he has similar production (yes I know he joined at an older age). Yet Nino is titled a bust by so many already and Sundstrom is very hyped because of his overall game on both sides of the puck. I was impressed with Sundstrom in the WJC against kids but people are so hard on Nino. I don't buy the cap hit thing and feel this could be good for his development in the end.

I honestly don't think he played all that bad. Just wasn't playing a scoring roll and more of a checker which is maybe what he lacked in Juniors and looked somewhat confused on the ice at first. He absolutely plows through players even at the NHL level and rarely falls down. I hope he goes back into a scoring roll in the AHL using what he learned then he is the definition of a power foward and will be a beast if he puts it all together. The NHL shouldn't be used as a development tool but if he wasn't getting what Isles management thought he needed in Portland then they didn't have a choice but to give him limited ice time.

Many players develop defensive games before they go pro or hit the NHL level (Tavares even), maybe he didn't have that opportunity in Portland. The AHL would have been ideal but on the bright side, Nino has progressed defensively since his first game this year and is a good checker now imo. I'm staying positive and saying that his roll on the third/forth line will only strengthen his overall game.
This is something I always think about when terms like "rushing" are used for NHL prospects. I know the NHL is the best league in the world, but playing against men is playing against men. Many top prospect forwards play as 17/18 year olds in the KHL and SEL with minimal success. However, nobody ever talks about these players as being "ruined." A lot of the time these young players play on 4th lines or are healthy scratches. And again you never hear about them being busts.

Point is, nobody can say with any confidence if a player being "rushed" into a men's league is bad for a player's development. To state it as fact regarding guys like Bailey and Nino is irresponsible. One may assume that developing at a lesser league is better for development, but there is no proof of this, just baseless assumption. Nobody ever considers that perhaps Bailey would have been the player he is now even if he spent more time in Juniors. There's no way of knowing. Same goes for Nino.

The closest thing we have to an example is the 2003 Draft and the the lockout that followed forcing many 1st round picks to spend a year in the AHL. Maybe it being the best draft in years has a lot to do with development time in the AHL. Maybe it was indeed a draft filled with incredible talent. There are a lot of maybe in all of this. So when I see unwavering confidence in people saying "lost year," "bust," "ruinied prospect," etc. it makes me wonder if that's just fear talking or a concept born out of evidence.

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04-07-2012, 12:04 PM
  #71
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The closest thing we have to an example is the 2003 Draft and the the lockout that followed forcing many 1st round picks to spend a year in the AHL. Maybe it being the best draft in years has a lot to do with development time in the AHL. Maybe it was indeed a draft filled with incredible talent. There are a lot of maybe in all of this. So when I see unwavering confidence in people saying "lost year," "bust," "ruinied prospect," etc. it makes me wonder if that's just fear talking or a concept born out of evidence.
No 2003 was considered a very strong draft with alot of depth before it happened

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04-07-2012, 06:20 PM
  #72
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Last night in the OHL playoffs, game 1 for Niagara, Ryan Strome had a goal in a 2-1 OT win.
In the Q, Kirill Kabanov with a big night. A goal and 3 assists, but Chicotimi beat Shawnigan 7-6 in OT.

Its always positive to see prospects step it up when it matters most.
Was at the Niagara, in my personal opinion (which doesn't account for much...lol) Strome was the best player on the ice.

His goal was a beauty, toe dragged the defender so hard/well made defender fall on his ass than sniped it bar down top cheese.

Strome looked great!!

Had some solid back checks as well

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04-07-2012, 08:13 PM
  #73
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Persson scores again tonight. 4th goal of the season.

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04-07-2012, 08:23 PM
  #74
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Persson scores again tonight. 4th goal of the season.
Nice, how's Brock looking?

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04-07-2012, 08:33 PM
  #75
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Persson scores again tonight. 4th goal of the season.
Did you see what happened to Ullstrom at all? Does it look serious?

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