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Who else feels this way?

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Old
11-25-2004, 07:24 AM
  #1
The Grudge
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Who else feels this way?

Hi everyone. Long time "lurker", first time poster.

I just wanted to express my views on the lockout, because I'm sure there are people out there who agree with me. I must start by saying that I side with the owners 100% and I'm at the point now where I can honestly say the NHL players have lost a fan. Even if these guys do come back and start playing hockey tomorrow, all I will be able to think of is guys like Bill Guerin who said in a roundabout way "I'd rather see no NHL, than an NHL with a cap".

Give me a friggin' break. Let's look at the facts here Bill.
If it wasn't for NHL hockey you'd be working in a meat-processing plant making $10 an hour. While you can't say this about every hockey player in particular, that same theory probably appiles to the vast majority of the players.
What I get from guys like Trevor Linden and Bill Guerin is that they don't care one bit about fans or the game, they only care about their bank accounts.

To me the NHL players have finally been exposed for what they are. Greedy, self centered, spoiled, knuckleheads.

This whole thing just totally takes the magic of hockey away. Usually you hear stories about how players grow up in the rinks of small town Canada, and how their parents make them come in from their backyard rinks after 4 hours. Well, I'm not believing any of the mushy crap anymore. The bottom line is that 85% of them turn out to be self serving dumb-***** who think that 1.3 million a year to play hockey is a BAD DEAL.

It's a joke.

Bring in the replacement players and let's watch some guys play who are actually happy to be playing hockey.

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Old
11-25-2004, 07:53 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grudge
Hi everyone. Long time "lurker", first time poster.

I just wanted to express my views on the lockout, because I'm sure there are people out there who agree with me. I must start by saying that I side with the owners 100% and I'm at the point now where I can honestly say the NHL players have lost a fan. Even if these guys do come back and start playing hockey tomorrow, all I will be able to think of is guys like Bill Guerin who said in a roundabout way "I'd rather see no NHL, than an NHL with a cap".

Give me a friggin' break. Let's look at the facts here Bill.
If it wasn't for NHL hockey you'd be working in a meat-processing plant making $10 an hour. While you can't say this about every hockey player in particular, that same theory probably appiles to the vast majority of the players.
What I get from guys like Trevor Linden and Bill Guerin is that they don't care one bit about fans or the game, they only care about their bank accounts.

To me the NHL players have finally been exposed for what they are. Greedy, self centered, spoiled, knuckleheads.

This whole thing just totally takes the magic of hockey away. Usually you hear stories about how players grow up in the rinks of small town Canada, and how their parents make them come in from their backyard rinks after 4 hours. Well, I'm not believing any of the mushy crap anymore. The bottom line is that 85% of them turn out to be self serving dumb-***** who think that 1.3 million a year to play hockey is a BAD DEAL.

It's a joke.

Bring in the replacement players and let's watch some guys play who are actually happy to be playing hockey.
Even though I support their stance, I don't doubt for even a single minute that the owners are greedy too.

Frankly I can't believe the level of stupidity being displayed by the players in sticking to their "no cap of any kind" stance. Negotiate the deal,(either by agreeing to a soft cap or offering a stiff enough luxury tax that the owners can't refuse), help grow the league and then use their agents and the inevitable loopholes to exploit the owners and GM's competitive natures. Shrinking the league's revenues and potentially losing teams and therefore jobs/members is counterproductive to the NHLPA.

Too bad it will take tremendous damage to both sides to finally prove to the NHLPA that the owners problems are real and that they won't start running the business again until they have been addressed.

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Old
11-25-2004, 08:12 AM
  #3
eye
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I support the owners about 90% but if they don't lower ticket prices substantially once this is all settled they will lose me as a long time NHL fan as well. Until recently, I really thought NHL players were smarter and more fan friendly than pros in other sports but the more the Hull's, Prongers,Guerins and many others have spoken of late the more I am starting to think a fresh start and a new NHL will be needed if they hope to fully recover one day. The average salary of the NHLPA reps is 3.3 million so how can they represent the average player in the league? It seems every time one of them speaks the players take another PR hit and sway fans the wrong way. 300 players playing in Europe has done alot of PR damage as well. The players would be best served to shut the bleep up.

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11-25-2004, 08:19 AM
  #4
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I agreed with you right up until you said bring in the replacements. I don't want to watch them either.

Eye, what is wrong with what Hull said? What i thought he said was that the players were unreasonable and that Gary Bettman has to shoulder a good portion of the blame. It sounds to me like he said both sides were greedy, which is 100% correct. Guerin and Pronger are a pair of numbskulls who would be working in factories or in jail, so whatever they say has little impact on how sympathetic I am to their cause. Hull doesn't deserve t be grouped in with those two idiots.

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11-25-2004, 08:25 AM
  #5
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I disagree with you 100%.

Both the owners and players are being greedy. Both sides deserve blame, although I'd place the blame more on the owners side.

I'm not for either side "winning", I just want to see hockey back again, the sooner the better.

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Old
11-25-2004, 08:27 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grudge
Hi everyone. Long time "lurker", first time poster.
??? Did you decide to sign up under a new name to post then??? Long time lurker? With a sign up date of November 2004? Correct me if somehow I've lost all sense of logic, but isn't that this month?

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11-25-2004, 08:42 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
I agreed with you right up until you said bring in the replacements. I don't want to watch them either.

Eye, what is wrong with what Hull said? What i thought he said was that the players were unreasonable and that Gary Bettman has to shoulder a good portion of the blame. It sounds to me like he said both sides were greedy, which is 100% correct. Guerin and Pronger are a pair of numbskulls who would be working in factories or in jail, so whatever they say has little impact on how sympathetic I am to their cause. Hull doesn't deserve t be grouped in with those two idiots.

Your right. I went back and read his quotes and he should not be grouped in with the likes of Pronger and Guerin. At least Hull tried to look at both sides. The players have too much say and IMO they think they and the NHLPA now run the league. It's just not right. Would you agree that the NHLPA has gotten too much power in the past 10 years and are more powerful than other pro sports associations? The fact they can afford to pay players 10 thousand a month for at least 2 years is proof of that. The PA has too much power and too much to say. Get the best deal done with the owners and fans that actually pay the bills.

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11-25-2004, 08:44 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan

I'm not for either side "winning", I just want to see hockey back again, the sooner the better.

Hockey didn't go anywhere. The NHL is experiencing a work stoppage. The game of hockey is still being played (in some forms that are even more entertaining than the trap happy, don't care as long as I get paid NHL) you just have to get out there and find it.



Screw the NHLPA, Screw the NHL! I can do without both for up to 3 years, maybe more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgallant
??? Did you decide to sign up under a new name to post then??? Long time lurker? With a sign up date of November 2004? Correct me if somehow I've lost all sense of logic, but isn't that this month?

it means (s)he has been reading the messageboard, just finally decided to sign up an account and share his/her opinions. Welcome by the way.

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11-25-2004, 08:46 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgallant
??? Did you decide to sign up under a new name to post then??? Long time lurker? With a sign up date of November 2004? Correct me if somehow I've lost all sense of logic, but isn't that this month?
You don't need to be a member to lurk the boards

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11-25-2004, 08:58 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgallant
??? Did you decide to sign up under a new name to post then??? Long time lurker? With a sign up date of November 2004? Correct me if somehow I've lost all sense of logic, but isn't that this month?
Press "Log Out" and see what happens. You will still be able to see all the threads and you will show up as a "guest" in the thread you are viewing (where it says "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (2 members and 2 guests)")

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Old
11-25-2004, 09:02 AM
  #11
Papadice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
You don't need to be a member to lurk the boards
true... true... i'll be back in a minute... i've gotta go take my head out of my ass..

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11-25-2004, 10:44 AM
  #12
I in the Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grudge
To me the NHL players have finally been exposed for what they are. Greedy, self centered, spoiled, knuckleheads.

This whole thing just totally takes the magic of hockey away. Usually you hear stories about how players grow up in the rinks of small town Canada, and how their parents make them come in from their backyard rinks after 4 hours. Well, I'm not believing any of the mushy crap anymore. The bottom line is that 85% of them turn out to be self serving dumb-***** who think that 1.3 million a year to play hockey is a BAD DEAL.
People are people... Like in any group, you'll have some that are (in general) greedy, self-centered, etc... and you'll have some that are (in general) cool guys... And I'm sure that in some instances, Trever Linden and Guerin can be cool guys, and in other instances, they can be greedy a*******... Just like any of us... It's not black & white... All humans have negative traits... All humans have it in them to do greedy and self-serving things, at one point or another... and that's just a fact of life...

Perhaps the problem is that you have an unrealistic expectation of what a hockey player should be... and in general, hockey players don't live up to your ideal...

They are hockey players... not gods... They are not so pure that they can't grow pubic hair... Take them for what they are... Good to great to super hockey players... As a fan, enjoy what they do... Don't pass harsh judgement on who they are...

Human beings are complicated things...

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11-25-2004, 02:02 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye
People are people... Like in any group, you'll have some that are (in general) greedy, self-centered, etc... and you'll have some that are (in general) cool guys... And I'm sure that in some instances, Trever Linden and Guerin can be cool guys, and in other instances, they can be greedy a*******... Just like any of us... It's not black & white... All humans have negative traits... All humans have it in them to do greedy and self-serving things, at one point or another... and that's just a fact of life...

Perhaps the problem is that you have an unrealistic expectation of what a hockey player should be... and in general, hockey players don't live up to your ideal...

They are hockey players... not gods... They are not so pure that they can't grow pubic hair... Take them for what they are... Good to great to super hockey players... As a fan, enjoy what they do... Don't pass harsh judgement on who they are...

Human beings are complicated things...
They're not human beings, they're hockey players!
I think the problem starts at a fairly young age when it appears that a player has the talent to make it to the big leagues, the ego-stroking starts. The kids aren't given a chance to grow up in 'the real world', therefore they have no concept about us poor untalented schmo's and the price a hockey fan has to pay to go watch his favourite team.

Just some rough numbers, but think about this:

Say you have an average household Canadian income of about $50,000.
After all the deductions, you take home about $2700/month.
You're a family of 4 and want to take in one of your team's home games. You want seats where the kids can actually see something, so you pay out about $80 a pop for 4 mediocre seats (at the Bell Centre - probably more at the ACC).
So, include parking or transportation, food, beverages, some merchandise for the kids, you pay about $400 clams for a night's entertainment.
That's roughly 15% of your monthly takehome.

On the other hand, the average NHLer makes 1.8 million per year. Spread it out and that's $150,000 per month.
After taxes/deductions: $95,000 per month.
15% of $95,000 is $14,250

We know these guys live the life of luxury, but how many of them would be willing to drop 14K to take their family out to an event for an evening. ZERO! Guaranteed.

The point is....ahh crap, I forget....oh yeah, somebody on each side of the negotiating table (whenever they get back there), needs to realize that the fans are suffering most of all, because us average Joe Schmo's - THE REAL FANS - cannot afford to keep supporting their luxurious habits!

Scint out!

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Old
11-25-2004, 02:49 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Both the owners and players are being greedy. Both sides deserve blame, although I'd place the blame more on the owners side.
Yes, the owners are in it for the buck too, but there's a difference. They're risking hundreds of millions of dollars to earn that right.

Players risk nothing, other than the possibility that injury might stop their ride on the gravy train. And then they have to console themselves with being retired and wealthy before they're 30 years old.

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Old
11-25-2004, 04:10 PM
  #15
I in the Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scintillating
They're not human beings, they're hockey players!
I think the problem starts at a fairly young age when it appears that a player has the talent to make it to the big leagues, the ego-stroking starts. The kids aren't given a chance to grow up in 'the real world', therefore they have no concept about us poor untalented schmo's and the price a hockey fan has to pay to go watch his favourite team.

Just some rough numbers, but think about this:

Say you have an average household Canadian income of about $50,000.
After all the deductions, you take home about $2700/month.
You're a family of 4 and want to take in one of your team's home games. You want seats where the kids can actually see something, so you pay out about $80 a pop for 4 mediocre seats (at the Bell Centre - probably more at the ACC).
So, include parking or transportation, food, beverages, some merchandise for the kids, you pay about $400 clams for a night's entertainment.
That's roughly 15% of your monthly takehome.

On the other hand, the average NHLer makes 1.8 million per year. Spread it out and that's $150,000 per month.
After taxes/deductions: $95,000 per month.
15% of $95,000 is $14,250

We know these guys live the life of luxury, but how many of them would be willing to drop 14K to take their family out to an event for an evening. ZERO! Guaranteed.

The point is....ahh crap, I forget....oh yeah, somebody on each side of the negotiating table (whenever they get back there), needs to realize that the fans are suffering most of all, because us average Joe Schmo's - THE REAL FANS - cannot afford to keep supporting their luxurious habits!

Scint out!
Yes, hockey players make significantly more $ than the average man (understatement)... Yes, hockey players get paid millions for playing a game... Yes, people (perhaps even the ultra-poor) love hockey... Yes, the average man (and family) spends a lot of money (% of total earnings) to watch millionares play a game...

But personally, I have no ill-will towards the players for this... After all, hockey players are self-made (which is very admirable, IMO)... They are rewarded because of their own talents and what they were able to accomplish... They weren't given anything... They worked very hard and on their own accord got to where they are... Their daddies didn't do it for them, their daddies didn't buy their cars, etc... Which is personally fine with me as well (just not as admirable as being 'self-made', IMO)

IMO, we've got to play life with the cards we're given... some are born sons of senators... some are born craftsmen... some are born artists... some are born athletes... It just so happens that those who were born great athletes have the opportunity to apply their skill and effort in a sport that is very popular (hockey) - a lot of people are willing to pay a lot of money to watch hockey, and thus, the players get paid a lot of money - even though it's just a game... IMO, that's just the way it is...

Are the players paid too much? Perhaps yes... Perhaps no... That's not up to me to decide... That's up to the employers and the union to decide... I don't know the hockey business intimately enough to say with certainty if the current economics are saying that salaries are too high... I have my own opinions on the subject, but they're just opinions from an outsider looking in... Regardless if players are paid too much or not, I don't blame the players at all for feeling that they are worth every penny they are getting...

If I was to be paid what I think I'm worth, no one would ever be able to afford me Thus, I settle for the $ the market will allow... However, in the end IMO, the true measure of a man's success on earth is how many people go to his funeral when he dies, not how much money he makes...

We all die the same... and in 500 years, what Modano earned playing hockey compared to a man earning minimum wage won't mean a damn thing...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 11-25-2004 at 04:16 PM.
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