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The Importance of 2ND Round Picks ~ Don't Trade Them

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Old
04-03-2012, 05:00 PM
  #26
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
It would appear he has the memo because the the only 2nd round pick we've lost during his tenure (2011), was used to move up in the draft to the 1st round.
Wrong.

2010: #32 with #2 and #9 of 2011 for Kessel (as indicated previously by someone else)

2011: #39 with #30 for #22, #43 with #70 for #32 of 2010 (see above)

2012: Boston pick for Liles

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Old
04-03-2012, 05:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by threeGo View Post
Trading your 2nd round pick for multiple 5ths isn't that great of an idea. First of all the chance of getting a good player is low but at the same time there's a higher chance of getting a steal with multiple picks. Another problem is that the 50 contrcat limit will hinder teams who try this. You don't know which of those 5th round picks will ever play in the NHL so you'd be wasting contract spots on players who might never make it.

I say try and stockpile picks in the late 1sts and 2nd round by trading players like MacA or others who's role can be filled by some of our current prospects. Getting those 1-2 free wallets don't hurt since there's a chance you get a good player for free. Not much of a contract limit problem by doing this since those free wallets are usually the best in their respective leagues and they'd be able to take the spot of some career ahlers who aren't that useful.
I would suppose that is what I implied when I asked should the leafs trade a second for multiple lower picks. You actually repeated my entire post give and take a few points. I agree with you in that because of the contract limit, the Leafs will have to draft only players with their high picks. In my post, I put forward that the Leafs should acquire depth players with their lower level picks to maybe populate their AHL team and the lower lines.

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Old
04-03-2012, 05:05 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cookie View Post
I would suppose that is what I implied when I asked should the leafs trade a second for multiple lower picks. You actually repeated my entire post give and take a few points. I agree with you in that because of the contract limit, the Leafs will have to draft only players with their high picks. In my post, I put forward that the Leafs should acquire depth players with their lower level picks to maybe populate their AHL team and the lower lines.
Lol. I just read up to where you started askign questions. Didn't read the last paragraph.

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04-03-2012, 05:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Not too bright for some I'd imagine.

If a trade works you make the trade!

Without knowing whoever is available this offseason, it's pretty stubborn and shortsighted to suggest you should not make any trades of picks what soever!

People seriously need to get over pick fever! WoW!
I agree, the draft pick fever has gotten out of hand.

But i'm not worried....once the draft passes most people will stop preaching picks and start making trade and FA proposals as july1st and the seaspn start will become the next upcoming overhyped events on here.

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Old
04-03-2012, 05:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Tie Domi 88
Felix Potvin 90
Karel Pilar 01
Matthew Stajan 02
Nik Kulemin 06
Jimmy Hayes 08
Jesse Blacker 09
Brad Ross 10
havent looked it up but if these are the only picks we've made from 88 then I would say this is an advocate to be trading the pick if you can get a top 6 forward or top 4 dmen because we've not got anything better then that since 88, other then Potvin who had about 5 good years and thats it. Domi 3rd-4th line toughguy, Stajan 3rd line center, Kulemin had 1 good season but other then that been a 3rd line winger, Pilar hard to tell because of his problem but ended up nothing special, and the last 3 havent established themselves as NHL talent yet.

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Old
04-03-2012, 05:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
here's a groundbreaking idea: How about not trading any draft picks at all until the team is at least able to squeak into 8th place?

No, too radical for some.


In a perfect world, you could likely manage to do that. Here in Toronto, where there's a glaring lack of personnel able to 'squeak' into the 80 point range, you may be waiting a long, long, long time.

You shore up those weaknesses through drafting, trading if possible, and by uncovering unsigned prospects playing in less obvious markets.

2nd rounders are replaceable as guys in junior graduate and push more senior players out. Valuable, sure...but not difficult to obtain. Pretty common bargaining chip...

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Old
04-03-2012, 05:39 PM
  #32
Stephen
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Originally Posted by cookie View Post
I found this thread interesting. Should the Leafs focus on garnering more top picks ie. 1s, 2s and maybe 3s or should they focus on the quantity of picks (in the sense that you can trade a 2nd for multiple 5ths)?

We've had success throughout the bottom of the draft--Gunnarsson is a late pick and is one of our better defensemen, but generally, it is harder to find players like Stralman, Stalberg and Gunnarsson with these picks and rarer still to find an allstar calibre player like Kaberle.

With our firsts and seconds, we've regularly gotten players that have played in the NHL but whose contributions are not all that great (considering their high level pick). Only Kulemin has had an allstar-like season for the Leafs with 30 goals, but the rest of the Colaiacovos, Stajans and Steens have found more 3rd-line, middle-pairing defensemen, support roles. The only allstars we've drafted are playing for and have had their best seasons with different teams--Boyes's 40 goals, Tuukka Rasks goaltending.

What do the Leafs do:
Should they hold on to their top picks and trade the bottom picks for depth players?
Should they trade their top picks for elite level talent?
Does the maximum contract count (I think it's 50 per team) have an impact on what Toronto does?
What does acquiring free agents from overseas and the US college programs do for Toronto?

Personally, the Buds should hold onto their top picks and trade their bottom picks for depth players. The sheer amount of overseas players and college free agents that are available every year should be able to offset the talent that we may otherwise throw away with our later picks.
I think they need to go for those Swedish gems more often. A lot of great young players are buried on club teams and slip in the draft and are often ripe for the picking in the later rounds. Ottawa nabs them all the time and we seem to do pretty well with those guys as well. Go for the home run projects like Sondre Olden, instead of the character role players we load up on.

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Old
04-03-2012, 06:13 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I'd hazard a guess Burke has acquired more picks then hes traded.
He gave up two top 10 picks and a top 32 pick.

Nothing makes up for trading away #2 overall, not even Kessel.

Acquiring ten 5th rounders doesn't make up for it!

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Old
04-03-2012, 06:17 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Nothing makes up for trading away #2 overall, not even Kessel.
No team would even consider trading a player like Kessel for this year's second overall.

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Old
04-03-2012, 06:17 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I think they need to go for those Swedish gems more often. A lot of great young players are buried on club teams and slip in the draft and are often ripe for the picking in the later rounds. Ottawa nabs them all the time and we seem to do pretty well with those guys as well. Go for the home run projects like Sondre Olden, instead of the character role players we load up on.
I couldn't agree more with you. The fact that we are so strong in drafting late round players speaks volumes to our scouts' scouting prowess and the development program set by the Leafs. With the lack of high round picks during the Fergusson era, we had to rely on our late round picks to conjure up a player that would generally be found with a high pick. I think if we were any other team, we would have had a very serious problem in our hands with how barren our prospect pool was of high draft picks.

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Old
04-03-2012, 08:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
havent looked it up but if these are the only picks we've made from 88 then I would say this is an advocate to be trading the pick if you can get a top 6 forward or top 4 dmen because we've not got anything better then that since 88, other then Potvin who had about 5 good years and thats it. Domi 3rd-4th line toughguy, Stajan 3rd line center, Kulemin had 1 good season but other then that been a 3rd line winger, Pilar hard to tell because of his problem but ended up nothing special, and the last 3 havent established themselves as NHL talent yet.
I glanced at our 1st rd picks history, there are some duds in there. Our best 1st rounders are undoubtably Sittler, Mcdonald and Clark. Probably Sittler is the only franchise player we have drafted in the 1st round. Clark was a great intangible player, he was tremendous as the 2nd or 3rd fwd to Gilmour but he wasn't the franchise despite being one of the most beloved Leafs of alltime. Our best 2nd rounders are Potvin who was a Calder finalist and arguably a franchise goalie, Randy Carlyle, a Norris winner, and Gary Leeman a 50 goal man.

What does this all mean? Means there are homeruns in 2nd rd so we shouldn't give them away, they aren't as obvious as in 1st rd picks but they can be found.

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Old
04-03-2012, 08:41 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
He gave up two top 10 picks and a top 32 pick.

Nothing makes up for trading away #2 overall, not even Kessel.

Acquiring ten 5th rounders doesn't make up for it!
Burke didn't trade a 2nd overall, a 32nd overall or a 9th overall for Kessel.

He traded 2 1sts and a 2nd.

What would have happend if Vesa Toskala hadn't been such a failure of a goalie and we had ended up with a pick in the 5-9 range, I don't think one person would complain about that.

If you can trade 2 1sts and a 2nd for a 22 year old that WILL get you 30 goals a year (and just got us 80 points) its hard not to do that.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Like trading away a 2nd for 31 year old JM Liles for example.
That was actually an excellent trade; the ERROR was not trading Liles away at the deadline!
Quincy was dealt for a 1st...seems like Burke could have gotten a 1st+ for Liles, since so few dmen were available.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:25 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Did anyone forward Burke a copy
Did you notice 2 of those were his picks?

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04-04-2012, 07:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I'd hazard a guess Burke has acquired more picks then hes traded.
He has.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:31 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
He gave up two top 10 picks and a top 32 pick.

Nothing makes up for trading away #2 overall, not even Kessel.

Acquiring ten 5th rounders doesn't make up for it!
You should have a closer look.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:59 PM
  #42
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2nd round picks are important

1st round picks are more important

Drafting is important

Don't trade picks unless the right trade comes around.

Pretty much sums things up.

Fwiw I think it would be incredibly stupid of Burke to NOT listen to offers for his first round pick, if indeed it ends up being a top 5 picks.

I'm not saying he should trade it - but at the very least he should be hearing what other teams are willing to give up for it, because as much as this team needs some exciting young talent, I would argue that the team right now is more in need of a franchise goaltender and a top center.

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Old
04-05-2012, 07:44 AM
  #43
MajorityRules
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I think this is a great idea. In fact, don't trade anymore picks, ever again.

Maybe that will stop Leaf fans from posting dumbass trades all over these forums.

Count me in as getting behind this. Maybe we should start a petition and send it to Burke.

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Old
04-05-2012, 09:13 AM
  #44
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I have no problem trading a 2nd away to take a chance on a young, high potential player like Grabovski.

I do have a problem trading a 2nd away for a 36-year old unnecessary stop-gap like Perreault.

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Old
04-05-2012, 10:23 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
I agree, the draft pick fever has gotten out of hand.

But i'm not worried....once the draft passes most people will stop preaching picks and start making trade and FA proposals as july1st and the seaspn start will become the next upcoming overhyped events on here.
Yes, I suggest July 1st. be Leafs draft day!

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Old
04-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #46
Hero
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What I learned today...

2nd's are good to have. Not as good as 1st's but better than 3rd's.

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Old
04-05-2012, 03:45 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
League average is about 25% of 2nd round picks end up having NHL careers.
Meaning if you can trade that 2nd rounder for a player who is in the NHL, already contributing to a team (like the Liles trade) then you do that.

NHL impact player > 25 percent chance at an NHL player (let alone impact player)

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Old
04-06-2012, 12:05 AM
  #48
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Old
04-06-2012, 12:21 AM
  #49
The Podium
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You missed Kenny Ryan

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Old
04-06-2012, 12:22 AM
  #50
The Podium
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probably missing more too since you have a 10 year gap

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