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The Draft Thread (con't.) - 12, 21, 42, 44, 73, 133, 163, 193, 204

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:47 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
So If Ceci is on the board at 15 or what ever, and the best remaining forward is Scissons, you would still take the foward and not the guy who projects to be the better player?
If Scissons were the BPA (forward) at pick 15 then I'd probably take Murry or Dumba considering the scenario you've put forth.

Yakupov, Forsberg, Grigorenko, Gally, Faksa, Girgensons, Gaunce, Aberg, Collberg, that Finnish guy (not even gonna try with his name), Hertl and anyone else who the Sabres consider a better forward then Scissons on their list would all have to be off the board then.

Ok, point is that won't happen and if it does, Trouba and Reinhart over Ceci anyway.

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04-04-2012, 07:59 PM
  #27
Evgeni Giroux
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I just don't understand how you can take a player just because of his position. You take who you beileve will be the best player. You can always move a defenceman to a team with a surplus of fowards. An example of this is Cory Schneider, their is no where for him to move up with Luongo for the next 10 years or so under contract, so they can now turn that asset into another asset to help their team. They could likely get a top10 pick or a very good NHL player for him

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04-04-2012, 08:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
I just don't understand how you can take a player just because of his position. You take who you beileve will be the best player. You can always move a defenceman to a team with a surplus of fowards. An example of this is Cory Schneider, their is no where for him to move up with Luongo for the next 10 years or so under contract, so they can now turn that asset into another asset to help their team. They could likely get a top10 pick or a very good NHL player for him
i agree

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Old
04-04-2012, 09:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
I just don't understand how you can take a player just because of his position. You take who you beileve will be the best player. You can always move a defenceman to a team with a surplus of fowards. An example of this is Cory Schneider, their is no where for him to move up with Luongo for the next 10 years or so under contract, so they can now turn that asset into another asset to help their team. They could likely get a top10 pick or a very good NHL player for him
First and foremost, pease visit this website. It's a pet-peeve of mine; it's irked me for years.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but Schneider was a poor example. Luongo was traded to Vancouver well after the team had selected Schneider in the '04 draft.

I believe that there are times you take a player based on his position and I also believe there are times that you take a player because he's the best player available.

Buffalo has shored up its defense in the pipeline over the last five drafts. It wouldn't hurt to add a few more first round forward prospects to the ranks.


Last edited by gallagt01: 04-04-2012 at 10:08 PM.
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04-04-2012, 09:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Or maybe he drafts Tyler Myers and you draft Zach Boychuk.
yup, total crap shoot... unless you can 100% guarantee the success of a player (you can't), then you should draft for need

scouting/front office's arrogance prevents this...

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Old
04-04-2012, 09:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
First and foremost, pease visit this website. It's a pet-peeve of mine; it's irked me for years.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but Schneider was a poor example. Luongo was traded to Vancouver well after the team had selected Schneider in the '04 draft.

I believe that there are times you take a player based on his position and I also believe there are times that you take a player because he's the best player available.

I believe that Buffalo has shored up its defense in the pipeline over the last five drafts. It wouldn't hurt to add a few more first round forward prospects to the ranks.
Really? My spelling needs to be correct while typing on a phone that auto corrects everything I write???? Yet on an internet forum......

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04-04-2012, 10:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
Really? My spelling needs to be correct while typing on a phone that auto corrects everything I write???? Yet on an internet forum......
Like I said, it's a pet-peeve of mine.

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Old
04-04-2012, 10:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Like I said, it's a pet-peeve of mine.
If I type on my computer Ill make sure its correct just for you, but on my phone it is what it is

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Old
04-04-2012, 10:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
yup, total crap shoot... unless you can 100% guarantee the success of a player (you can't), then you should draft for need

scouting/front office's arrogance prevents this...
Weren't you the one pointing out that the Pysyk/JGL/MacKenzie (RHD) and Kassian/Foligno (PFs) drafts proved that they do draft for need? At least sometimes?

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Old
04-05-2012, 06:01 AM
  #35
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http://futureconsiderations.ca/galch...18-appearance/

Quote:
Many were surprised at the absence of Alex Galchenyuk from Team USA’s roster that will compete at the World Under-18 Championship in the Czech Republic later this month.

Perhaps none more than the Sarnia Sting standout himself, who admitted he was ready and willing to answer the call for his country.

“I was hoping I’ll represent Team USA but I respect their choice,” Galchenyuk told The Pipeline Show Tuesday.

The American roster is comprised of 21 members of the National Team Development Program along with one from high school in Daniel O’Regan. The team has no members from the Canadian Hockey League.
http://futureconsiderations.ca/grigo...l-awards-haul/

Quote:
The accolades for Quebec Remparts standout and 2012 NHL Entry Draft standout Mikhail Grigorenko continue to pour in.

The Russian import left the Golden Puck Awards, presented annually by the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, with an impressive haul of hardware.

Grigorenko was the recipient of the RDS Cup Wednesday, awarded to the QMJHL’s top rookie. The six-foot-two, 190-pound forward beat out teammates Francois Brassard and Anthony Duclair for the award, as well as Brandon Whitney of the Victoriaville Tigres and Halifax Moosheads teammates Zach Fucale and Nathan MacKinnon.

He also captured the Michael-Bossy Trophy as the league’s top draft eligible prospect, beating out Whitney and Martin Frk. He had already received the Michel Bergeron trophy, awarded annually to the best offensive rookie of the year.

Grigorenko was named to the league’s first all-star team, as well as the rookie all-star team.

The Russian import scored 40 goals and added 85 points in his first season of hockey in North America with the Remparts. He is currently fourth in Future Considerations’ ranking for the 2012 draft.

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04-05-2012, 06:53 AM
  #36
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I like some of the things USA Hockey does. Team selection is not one of them.

(PS, great avi JB.)

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04-05-2012, 07:21 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I like some of the things USA Hockey does. Team selection is not one of them.

(PS, great avi JB.)
Seeing as how there is only one member of the team that isn't a part of the USNTDP U-18 squad (Daniel O'Reagan from St Sebastien's), I kind of understand why they built the team the way that they did.

Side note, too bad there wasn't a kid from Rochester, Minnesota on the team. They would have had 3 kids from 3 different Rochesters (NY & Michigan are represented)!

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04-05-2012, 08:08 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Weren't you the one pointing out that the Pysyk/JGL/MacKenzie (RHD) and Kassian/Foligno (PFs) drafts proved that they do draft for need? At least sometimes?
good point

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04-05-2012, 09:05 AM
  #39
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Whalers' Tom Wilson Picking Up the Pace:
Quote:
When National Hockey League scouts attend Plymouth Whalers games, they appreciate the work of Scott Wedgewood, Stefan Noesen, Austin Levi, JT Miller and the rest of the Whalers who happen to be NHL draft picks.

They also appreciate the efforts of free agents Andy Bathgate, Beau Schmitz and Alex Aleardi.

But one Whaler in the scouts' collective focus is right wing Tom Wilson, who is eligible for the NHL Entry Draft, held June 22-23 in Pittsburgh.

Wilson is currently rated 33rd by Central Scouting and most mock drafts have him going in the first round of the draft.

Sidelined by an injury while playing in the annual Home Hardware CHL/NHL Top Prospects Game on Feb. 1, Wilson returned to the lineup in March and is playing some of his best hockey of the year during the playoffs.

An emerging power forward, Wilson was rated the best body checker in the annual OHL Western Conference Coaches Poll. He is also adding offense when it counts, scoring three goals in the final four games against first-round opponent Guelph as the Whalers came back from a 0-2 deficit to eliminate the Storm.

The goals were scored as a power forward should score them – by going to the gritty area of the ice:
  • In Game 3 (a 7-1 Plymouth victory), Wilson scored on a rebound through traffic in the slot.
  • In Game 4 (a 5-2 Plymouth victory in Guelph), Wilson beat a Guelph defender to a spot at the hash marks and tipped Nick Malysa’s shot from the point for the first goal of the game.
  • In Game 6 (a 2-1 Plymouth victory in overtime to clinch the series), Wilson battled a Guelph defenseman in front of the Storm net and tipped Austin Levi’s shot from the high slot into the net for the first goal of the game.
In spite of the upcoming NHL Entry Draft, Wilson is excited to be part of a team that wants to go deep into the OHL playoffs.

“Here and there, it’s a distraction, but I try to keep it in the back of my head,” Wilson admitted. “Right now, the goal is right in front of us – playoffs, OHL Championship, Memorial Cup – so that’s where my mind is at right now. I just want to help the team. The draft will come at the end of the year. I’m not too worried about it right now.”

Link: http://northville.patch.com/articles...ng-up-the-pace

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04-05-2012, 12:17 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Woodhouse View Post
Whalers' Tom Wilson Picking Up the Pace:
I should be going the Whalers game tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what I see from Wilson this time.

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04-05-2012, 12:51 PM
  #41
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Brady Vail of Winsdor with one of the second-round picks?

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04-05-2012, 01:11 PM
  #42
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Jame correct me if I'm wrong but your point about the bpa vs. position need is based on both the lack of perfection in drafting and that there is seldom a huge gap in perceived talent when your picking?

So when Evgeni Giroux pushes for always going for bpa, your point is that there is seldom much of a difference in the projected ceiling between 6-7 prospects that we could take with say the 13 overall pick?

Because if so that makes sense and is odd that people argue the point.

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04-05-2012, 02:14 PM
  #43
Evgeni Giroux
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Originally Posted by bobbyorrrrr View Post
Jame correct me if I'm wrong but your point about the bpa vs. position need is based on both the lack of perfection in drafting and that there is seldom a huge gap in perceived talent when your picking?

So when Evgeni Giroux pushes for always going for bpa, your point is that there is seldom much of a difference in the projected ceiling between 6-7 prospects that we could take with say the 13 overall pick?

Because if so that makes sense and is odd that people argue the point.
I dont always push for BPA, If you have a few similar players who you like.Then you take the player who fills a need. He is saying to take for position because you need to fill the position rather than take the player who you believe is going to project the best.

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04-05-2012, 02:34 PM
  #44
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Wilson is, like Samuelsson, someone to look at with that early 2nd rounder. Not sure either is worth the Nashville pick but with Samuelsson playing center for EOK, I wonder if they project him out higher.

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04-05-2012, 02:52 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
I dont always push for BPA, If you have a few similar players who you like.Then you take the player who fills a need. He is saying to take for position because you need to fill the position rather than take the player who you believe is going to project the best.
I guess what I am thinking is that how many times will you ever have someone that sticks that far above the rest outside of say a top 3 pick. So lets say a team is picking 10, and they need centers, but are deep elsewhere. How much of a difference is there going to be projection wise between Defenseman A vs. Center A. Without actual facts on each prospect the projected talent is likely to be relatively similar, especially when you are talking about 18 year old kids. So it seems like you would be better off filling your gap in franchise depth, then taking a player at a position your stacked at to talk a player who is slightly more thought of.

When does everybody feel like that big difference in projections becomes more pronounced? I feel like the first round is generally going to be relatively similar, so maybe this is a debate that applies more to the later rounds?

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04-05-2012, 03:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bobbyorrrrr View Post
I guess what I am thinking is that how many times will you ever have someone that sticks that far above the rest outside of say a top 3 pick. So lets say a team is picking 10, and they need centers, but are deep elsewhere. How much of a difference is there going to be projection wise between Defenseman A vs. Center A. Without actual facts on each prospect the projected talent is likely to be relatively similar, especially when you are talking about 18 year old kids. So it seems like you would be better off filling your gap in franchise depth, then taking a player at a position your stacked at to talk a player who is slightly more thought of.

When does everybody feel like that big difference in projections becomes more pronounced? I feel like the first round is generally going to be relatively similar, so maybe this is a debate that applies more to the later rounds?
I get what you are saying, ya I kinda agree. Maybe trade back to get the player who fills a need? This is an odd year though because of the lack of high end fowards and crop of defence

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04-05-2012, 03:02 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyorrrrr View Post
Jame correct me if I'm wrong but your point about the bpa vs. position need is based on both the lack of perfection in drafting and that there is seldom a huge gap in perceived talent when your picking?

So when Evgeni Giroux pushes for always going for bpa, your point is that there is seldom much of a difference in the projected ceiling between 6-7 prospects that we could take with say the 13 overall pick?

Because if so that makes sense and is odd that people argue the point.
that is exactly my point

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04-05-2012, 03:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
I dont always push for BPA, If you have a few similar players who you like.Then you take the player who fills a need. He is saying to take for position because you need to fill the position rather than take the player who you believe is going to project the best.
wrong.

i dismiss the premise that you can differentiate the projected talent of teenagers after putting them into large groups...

I divide them into:

Elite Talent projection
High End Talent projection
1st round talent
2nd round talent
rest of the draft talent

if everyone from the Elite and High End talent projection pool is off the board at our pick (which I expect), I'm taking a center.

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04-05-2012, 03:15 PM
  #49
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Wilson is, like Samuelsson, someone to look at with that early 2nd rounder. Not sure either is worth the Nashville pick but with Samuelsson playing center for EOK, I wonder if they project him out higher.
Wilson strikes me as someone Burke will be looking at in the mid-30s.

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04-05-2012, 08:32 PM
  #50
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Whoever named this thread congrats

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