Can't judge a GM solely by his trades - need to take a holistic approach to appropriately gauge their worth.
Darryl's drafting was abysmal. His prospect development was worse. He failed to understand the changes the new CBA would bring with regards to speed, skill and youth. He flip flopped his systems far too often and ultimately failed to bring about a balance between offense and defense; the Flames were ultra defensive in the first season post lockout which Sutter admitted didn't work. So he opened up the system and acquired some better offensive players and more offense coaches, but then the Flames were terrible defensively. So he reversed course again and went with a super defensive structure. Then when the Flames went on a 9 game losing streak, he switched again.
He never appeared to have a plan, or if he did, it was thrown out the window after the cinderella run. After that point, he just seemed to be throwing darts at the wall and hoped something stuck. His selection of coaches were terrible - Playfair was in way over his head while it's debatable if Keenan did any kind of coaching at all. And then Brent was terrible fit for the roster he had assembled.
On the other hand, he's responsible, almost single handily, for bringing the Flames some credibility and respect around the league after years of languishing as a sub par franchise. He understood that to attract UFA's and to even just retain talent, it meant treating players with respect. He, along with King, got the ownership to create their own farm team and spend more on off-ice support systems. The improvement in drafting over the last few years is in no small way connected to the policies and institutions he developed.
Still, ultimately, he left the team in the same position as when he joined - rudderless and out of the playoffs. In his last few years, his decisions derailed all almost everything he had previously accomplished in terms of the on ice product, but ironically, they were his best drafting seasons. He brought the Flames forward in some areas, but caused them to take steps back in others.
In regards to the topic at hand, yeah the Flames need a new coach. Brent Sutter is terrible.
Can't judge a GM solely by his trades - need to take a holistic approach to appropriately gauge their worth.
Darryl's drafting was abysmal. His prospect development was worse. He failed to understand the changes the new CBA would bring with regards to speed, skill and youth. He flip flopped his systems far too often and ultimately failed to bring about a balance between offense and defense; the Flames were ultra defensive in the first season post lockout which Sutter admitted didn't work. So he opened up the system and acquired some better offensive players and more offense coaches, but then the Flames were terrible defensively. So he reversed course again and went with a super defensive structure. Then when the Flames went on a 9 game losing streak, he switched again.
He never appeared to have a plan, or if he did, it was thrown out the window after the cinderella run. After that point, he just seemed to be throwing darts at the wall and hoped something stuck. His selection of coaches were terrible - Playfair was in way over his head while it's debatable if Keenan did any kind of coaching at all. And then Brent was terrible fit for the roster he had assembled.
On the other hand, he's responsible, almost single handily, for bringing the Flames some credibility and respect around the league after years of languishing as a sub par franchise. He understood that to attract UFA's and to even just retain talent, it meant treating players with respect. He, along with King, got the ownership to create their own farm team and spend more on off-ice support systems. The improvement in drafting over the last few years is in no small way connected to the policies and institutions he developed.
Still, ultimately, he left the team in the same position as when he joined - rudderless and out of the playoffs. In his last few years, his decisions derailed all almost everything he had previously accomplished in terms of the on ice product, but ironically, they were his best drafting seasons. He brought the Flames forward in some areas, but caused them to take steps back in others.
In regards to the topic at hand, yeah the Flames need a new coach. Brent Sutter is terrible.
I'm won't disagree with you about his drafting. Not even in the slightest. But I doubt he couldn't understand the CBA. He might not be the most articulate person, but you don't become the GM of a NHL team by being too dumb to understand a CBA. Remember, some owners are royaly successful business men who are in the billions, so I really doubt a complete moron would skate by for so many years in that position. He only ever responded that it was complex whenever the media grilled him about being over the cap or making moves up against the cap, and you know Sutter, never gave the media the slightest clue as to what his plans were. That's probably why he made the CBA sound complex.
Now the knee-jerk reactions from Sutter was a love/hate thing for me. I can appreciate when a man is willing to admit a mistake and start over. Maybe that was the case every year with him. I don't know. And similiarly, Sutter was a man who addressed the problems immediately instead of waiting patiently for a long-term solutions. Patience wasn't his virtue, but that's the same for the fans, so it felt relieving when something got done right away. It's like every trade deadline or free agency you're kind of hoping for a blockbuster deal out of excitement, when in reality you know nothing is going to happen. But with Sutter, he made it happen.
I'm won't disagree with you about his drafting. Not even in the slightest. But I doubt he couldn't understand the CBA. He might not be the most articulate person, but you don't become the GM of a NHL team by being too dumb to understand a CBA. Remember, some owners are royaly successful business men who are in the billions, so I really doubt a complete moron would skate by for so many years in that position. He only ever responded that it was complex whenever the media grilled him about being over the cap or making moves up against the cap, and you know Sutter, never gave the media the slightest clue as to what his plans were. That's probably why he made the CBA sound complex.
I'm not sure where the point of contention here lies. As I said, my problem with Sutter was in him realizing too late what the new CBA changed in regards to the on-ice game; specifically the increased emphasis on speed, talent and skill. I didn't have a problem with his management of the cap or when he traded for Jokinen and Leopold in 2009; he gambled, it backfired. It happens.
The specific problem here was that first year post lockout, as almost every other team in the league moved towards a more offensive system, Sutter sticks with his constrictive trap system. When other teams start looking to draft players that will fit in the new, faster NHL, Sutter drafts guys like Pelech, Chucko, Nemisz, etc. Sutter didn't seem to understand, at least not immediately, that the rule changes in the new CBA would change the game from the dead puck era. That's an incredible failure on his part.
Quote:
Now the knee-jerk reactions from Sutter was a love/hate thing for me. I can appreciate when a man is willing to admit a mistake and start over. Maybe that was the case every year with him. I don't know. And similiarly, Sutter was a man who addressed the problems immediately instead of waiting patiently for a long-term solutions. Patience wasn't his virtue, but that's the same for the fans, so it felt relieving when something got done right away. It's like every trade deadline or free agency you're kind of hoping for a blockbuster deal out of excitement, when in reality you know nothing is going to happen. But with Sutter, he made it happen.
Yeah, I can understand that feeling. But patience is a virtue, especially when building a Stanley Cup contender. I expect an NHL GM can get past an itchy trigger finger. Switching the supporting cast each season was not recipe for success. But my problem was with the overall direction Sutter took the team; going from defense to offense back to defense and then back to offense in a six year span just shows Sutter had no idea what he was doing.
"After discussions with Jay since the season ended, it was in the best interest of the organization and myself to part ways," said Sutter. "I wish the Calgary Flames all the best."
Iginla refuses to buy in. Which one is going to leave 3 coaches one Iginla.
What has he not done that Sutter expected, blocked shots? he was 4th for forward with no pk time. scored goals? Lead his team in goals again. not give the puck away? This was is best season for give away / take away. Get physical? Most hits in a season since they started keeping track.
What more do you want him to do? Should he strap the pads on every 8 games or so so Kipper can get some rest?
What has he not done that Sutter expected, blocked shots? he was 4th for forward with no pk time. scored goals? Lead his team in goals again. not give the puck away? This was is best season for give away / take away. Get physical? Most hits in a season since they started keeping track.
What more do you want him to do? Should he strap the pads on every 8 games or so so Kipper can get some rest?
What has he not done that Sutter expected, blocked shots? he was 4th for forward with no pk time. scored goals? Lead his team in goals again. not give the puck away? This was is best season for give away / take away. Get physical? Most hits in a season since they started keeping track.
What more do you want him to do? Should he strap the pads on every 8 games or so so Kipper can get some rest?
Too lazy to look it up, how many did he have? Not disagreeing, I just remember thinking to myself repeatedly this year, "I wish he still hit the way he used to". Wonder what games I was watching...
Too lazy to look it up, how many did he have? Not disagreeing, I just remember thinking to myself repeatedly this year, "I wish he still hit the way he used to". Wonder what games I was watching...
124 his second highest was last season with 102. having more hits doesn't mean hard hits tho he doesn't destroy players any more but he is more physical.
124 his second highest was last season with 102. having more hits doesn't mean hard hits tho he doesn't destroy players any more but he is more physical.
Oh I know. Maybe its just the bad of the season standing out more than the good, just thought it was kinda funny that I was completely off-base, haha.
What has he not done that Sutter expected, blocked shots? he was 4th for forward with no pk time. scored goals? Lead his team in goals again. not give the puck away? This was is best season for give away / take away. Get physical? Most hits in a season since they started keeping track.
What more do you want him to do? Should he strap the pads on every 8 games or so so Kipper can get some rest?
Stop being a cherry picker for one. Anyone with a set of eye balls can see it! Regehr has brought this up as have a couple of other defenceman. How about stay in you own friggin zone and once you get possesion then look for the pass.
If the Captain won't buy in. How as a coach can you sell a system to the rest of the team?
I don't know how many times Iginla has left the zone while the opposistion still had control of the puck in the Flames zone. Might as well be killing a penalty.
Stop being a cherry picker for one. Anyone with a set of eye balls can see it! Regehr has brought this up as have a couple of other defenceman. How about stay in you own friggin zone and once you get possesion then look for the pass.
If the Captain won't buy in. How as a coach can you sell a system to the rest of the team?
I don't know how many times Iginla has left the zone while the opposistion still had control of the puck in the Flames zone. Might as well be killing a penalty.
Cherry picking is not back checking leaving the zone as our team takes control of the puck is a strategy to try and get break aways. It is amazing that he had almost more blocks than any other forward given he "didn't stay in the zone". Fans have become so spoiled watching him play he is not a world class defensive forward as he once was so he has changed his game to try and help the team such as not giving the puck away and blocking shots.
You say not buying in and yet when ever Sutter talked about what he wanted his players it is what Iginla was doing, such as blocking shots making good passes getting in passing lanes being physical.
Cherry picking is not back checking leaving the zone as our team takes control of the puck is a strategy to try and get break aways. It is amazing that he had almost more blocks than any other forward given he "didn't stay in the zone". Fans have become so spoiled watching him play he is not a world class defensive forward as he once was so he has changed his game to try and help the team such as not giving the puck away and blocking shots.
You say not buying in and yet when ever Sutter talked about what he wanted his players it is what Iginla was doing, such as blocking shots making good passes getting in passing lanes being physical.
There is such a disconnect from the older players namely Iginla and the newer players it is not even funny former players and coaches have stated this and yet certain fans still have blinders on.
Im a huge Iginla fan and appreciate everything he has done however the team comes first.
Iginla is the only constant outside Kipper since the lockout and yet nothing has changed how more transparent can things get?
There is such a disconnect from the older players namely Iginla and the newer players it is not even funny former players and coaches have stated this and yet certain fans still have blinders on.
Im a huge Iginla fan and appreciate everything he has done however the team comes first.
Iginla is the only constant outside Kipper since the lockout and yet nothing has changed how more transparent can things get?
The only coach to have a problem with Iggy was Playfair and he only made those comments when he came back to Calgary and was bitter but yea lets base our opinion on him.
The only coach to have a problem with Iggy was Playfair and he only made those comments when he came back to Calgary and was bitter but yea lets base our opinion on him.
Keenan also talked about Iginla as did Sutter. Regehr, Sarich and so on. There all bloody liars I guess Believe what the hell you want but nothing will change until Iginla is gone or no longer captain.
Keenan also talked about Iginla as did Sutter. Regehr, Sarich and so on. There all bloody liars I guess Believe what the hell you want but nothing will change until Iginla is gone or no longer captain.
Keenan had nothing bad to say about Iginla a week ago in fact compared his leadership to Messier so I don't know what you are talking about. Show me quotes of what Regehr and Sarich said that was negative about Iginla.
Keenan had nothing bad to say about Iginla a week ago in fact compared his leadership to Messier so I don't know what you are talking about. Show me quotes of what Regehr and Sarich said that was negative about Iginla.
When Daryl Sutter was asked about Regehrs comments Sutter was quoted saying" he should learn to shut his mouth shut" Keenan stated that he wanted to stay to work with Iginla to teach him to trust his teammates more meaning he doesnt need to carry the team on his back. Basically hard to coach because Iginla feels he has to score in order for the Flames to have success even though coaches try to tell him different.
How many times have you heard hard to coach? IGNLA IT IS A TEAM FN GAME get it through your thick skull!!!
It does not mtter who or how the players and coaches try to say it without throwing Iginla under the boss. Facts are Facts open your eyes and ears.
If the captain does not buy in how do expect the rest of the team to? No more examples.
I'm done for the night. Either your eyes are open or shut its up to you.
When Daryl Sutter was asked about Regehrs comments Sutter was quoted saying" he should learn to shut his mouth shut" Keenan stated that he wanted to stay to work with Iginla to teach him to trust his teammates more meaning he doesnt need to carry the team on his back. Basically hard to coach because Iginla feels he has to score in order for the Flames to have success even though coaches try to tell him different.
How many times have you heard hard to coach? IGNLA IT IS A TEAM FN GAME get it through your thick skull!!!
It does not mtter who or how the players and coaches try to say it without throwing Iginla under the boss. Facts are Facts open your eyes and ears.
If the captain does not buy in how do expect the rest of the team to? No more examples.
I'm done for the night. Either your eyes are open or shut its up to you.
The blue pill please.
How is wanting to win not being a team player he knows he has to score. No one outside of the media has said hard to coach so I don't see how that is relevant.
Again you should no examples of people saying he is not buying or a bad leader all you have is your opinion.
When Daryl Sutter was asked about Regehrs comments Sutter was quoted saying" he should learn to shut his mouth shut" Keenan stated that he wanted to stay to work with Iginla to teach him to trust his teammates more meaning he doesnt need to carry the team on his back. Basically hard to coach because Iginla feels he has to score in order for the Flames to have success even though coaches try to tell him different.
How many times have you heard hard to coach? IGNLA IT IS A TEAM FN GAME get it through your thick skull!!!
It does not mtter who or how the players and coaches try to say it without throwing Iginla under the boss. Facts are Facts open your eyes and ears.
If the captain does not buy in how do expect the rest of the team to? No more examples.
I'm done for the night. Either your eyes are open or shut its up to you.
Still havent seen one legit quote.. Ooh, Iggys sooo terrible because he pressures himself to carry his team. Terrible
Still havent seen one legit quote.. Ooh, Iggys sooo terrible because he pressures himself to carry his team. Terrible
Really prople have you been living in a hole the past 8 years? I shouldnt have to give you direct quotes. go back and listen to the audio yourselves .Tv footage of Interviews or ask the players directly yourself if u need that much proof. I cant be bothered talking to brick walls
Talk to Rhett Warrenner if u would like.
What has he not done that Sutter expected, blocked shots? he was 4th for forward with no pk time. scored goals? Lead his team in goals again. not give the puck away? This was is best season for give away / take away. Get physical? Most hits in a season since they started keeping track.
There is such a disconnect from the older players namely Iginla and the newer players it is not even funny former players and coaches have stated this and yet certain fans still have blinders on.
