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Old
04-09-2012, 12:22 AM
  #326
LatvianTwist
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I'm not even sure Winkler will ever make the AHL, much less the NHL.

Whoever we draft this year (as long as it's a center) will probably be Ribs' future replacement.

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04-09-2012, 12:28 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
If that's what it costs to sign a player who was buried in the Florida Panthers organization (don't they give like, everybody a look?) and who has one season of more than 5 goals then that's too rich for my blood. That is definitely not money well spent unless he puts up three consecutive seasons of 15 goals and 35-45 points (his career high [this season] he still only recorded 33 points).

I'm not all that interested in paying a guy like Garrison what it would probably take to sign him. If some GM wants to pay a guy with his track record stupid money I just hope it's not ours. Garrison didn't even have legitimate scoring numbers when he was at UMD. Smoke in mirrors.
You have a valid point that he has all of one season with numbers, but I already stated, it's his other assets I like (my post above). Regardless, whether it is too rich for you or not, it's likely his market value. That's the way it is right now.


Last edited by piqued: 04-09-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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04-09-2012, 12:28 AM
  #328
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I am pretty sure Winkler will get a shot at the AHL next year. We'll have a couple more never-gonna-get-there guys off the books. He'll... with all luck, be the next Sceviour.

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04-09-2012, 12:35 AM
  #329
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Then please come up with a realistic proposal both sides would agree to. It's not gonna be easy, trust me. And Blum is no better than Garrison, except in contracts (That trade proposal seems to be popping up a lot recently).
Teams are holding on to their d-men like crazy and are overpaying them to retain their services (Grossmann, Goligoski, Gleason, Gorges, etc.) In such a climate, no one is going to come up with or agree to a trade proposal that doesn't have us "giving to get."

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04-09-2012, 12:36 AM
  #330
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Meh. Who knows. You can never tell with guys like him. Just depends on how badly they want it.

I was thinking. The difference between Garrison's likely contract and Robidas' is ~1.5M, right? And at worst, Garrison will be a bottom pairing D-man, granted, for longer than Robidas. So aren't you really only risking 1.5M for a year to see how he turns out? After that, we'll know what to do, whether he's a success, we should try and trade him for any decent return, or just bury his contract.

Add in that Souray leaves and it's almost even. That's not even counting Dillon. I get where glovesave and others are coming from, but I think Garrison is a pretty low risk, high reward type of signing as long as we tinker with it all correctly.

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04-09-2012, 12:37 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Teams are holding on to their d-men like crazy and are overpaying them to retain their services (Grossmann, Goligoski, Gleason, Gorges, etc.) In such a climate, no one is going to come up with or agree to a trade proposal that doesn't have us "giving to get."
Which is why it's unreasonable. It's just not worth it.

Lol at all the G's. Seems like those are becoming very common around the league... Weird.

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04-09-2012, 12:47 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I was thinking. The difference between Garrison's likely contract and Robidas' is ~1.5M, right? And at worst, Garrison will be a bottom pairing D-man, granted, for longer than Robidas. So aren't you really only risking 1.5M for a year to see how he turns out? After that, we'll know what to do, whether he's a success, we should try and trade him for any decent return, or just bury his contract.

Add in that Souray leaves and it's almost even. That's not even counting Dillon. I get where glovesave and others are coming from, but I think Garrison is a pretty low risk, high reward type of signing as long as we tinker with it all correctly.
This. We aren't going to sign Robidas to another deal, so when he leaves a UFA would be taking his place plus a little raise. I would say the same thing about Morrow and Ribiero (who I think we should keep because he should still be a top 6 guy for at least 2 more years). If we sign some expensive forward, we will have a contract coming off the books.


Last edited by Mr Misty: 04-09-2012 at 12:53 AM.
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Old
04-09-2012, 01:04 AM
  #333
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I will not say a negative thing about this club for one whole month if Joe can pull that off but seriously people need not get their hopes up about Suter. You're setting yourselves up for disappointment. He's got way too many better options besides a team that's missed the playoffs 4 years in a row, isn't a hockey mecca, who's only redeeming feature is we suck we'll pay you a **** ton and you'll play half the game too.
You and I disagree on a number of things but I can usually see your logic. I find myself agreeing with you pretty often these days. Everything in there is bang on. If we sign him (or Parise for that matter, who I'd prefer) it will be because we gave him a contract not unlike the one Richards signed with NY that nobody else was willing to match. Depending on the other teams in the running I actually don't think Suter would sign with us even if we were the highest bidder unless it was just an obscenely better cash offer.

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04-09-2012, 01:22 AM
  #334
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Dallas was after Garrison after he came out of college, so they do know what he is capable of.
Did I miss something with Garrison? Is he a stone wall defensively as well as offering a little pop from the back end? Because what I see is a 27 year old player with less than three full seasons of NHL experience and a career high of 33 points who before this season hadn't ever had a professional season where he scored more than 8 goals. I know everyone is desperate to upgrade the defense but good god it seems like people just won the lottery and have cash burning a whole through their collective pocket.

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04-09-2012, 01:25 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
(Not to derail this thread again) You have a valid point that he has all of one season with numbers, but I already stated, it's his other assets I like (my post above). Regardless, whether it is too rich for you or not, it's likely his market value. That's the way it is right now.
You're probably right. I just think this is a case where I would let some other team regret signing him in two years. Just my take on the situation; I don't expect everyone to agree with me.


Last edited by piqued: 04-09-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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04-09-2012, 01:29 AM
  #336
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His defensive "stats" are favorable (Corsi, GFON/60 etc) but then again he also has a really high SV% from the goalies behind him when he's on the ice (0.936). And he's 2nd on a division champion team in TOI playing with a guy who's having a great year but who's historically prone to defensive blunders, although I'm not really sure that's still true.

Basically, no one watches Florida, so he's a wildcard just like prospects are and therefore prone to overrating.

I don't really know how good he is. I just hope that if the Stars do sign him, it's influenced by scouting and research and not just stats and hype. As far as term/salary goes, Nieuwendyk has always been very conservative so I'm not really worried that he'll go overboard. It seems he'd rather lose the fish than overpay.

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04-09-2012, 01:31 AM
  #337
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Who was he in a bidding war with for Pardy's services?

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04-09-2012, 01:33 AM
  #338
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The cap floor.

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04-09-2012, 01:49 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Did I miss something with Garrison? Is he a stone wall defensively as well as offering a little pop from the back end? Because what I see is a 27 year old player with less than three full seasons of NHL experience and a career high of 33 points who before this season hadn't ever had a professional season where he scored more than 8 goals. I know everyone is desperate to upgrade the defense but good god it seems like people just won the lottery and have cash burning a whole through their collective pocket.
That would make sense if we all were clamoring to sign someone Suter at any cost. Those for Garrison want a cheaper option, in essence. I def. don't want him for a dime more than $4.5-4.6M. If we get him for cheaper, even better, but we cannot be penny-pinchers either.

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04-09-2012, 02:56 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
That would make sense if we all were clamoring to sign someone Suter at any cost. Those for Garrison want a cheaper option, in essence. I def. don't want him for a dime more than $4.5-4.6M. If we get him for cheaper, even better, but we cannot be penny-pinchers either.
That is a **** ton of money for a guy with basically one good year and no track record of producing offense to speak of, at any level aside from his 20 year old season in the BCHL.

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04-09-2012, 07:05 AM
  #341
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ever heard of the AHL veteran rule...?
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'm 99% sure he already disproved that last time. If you're gonna bring it up, you do the research.
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he didn't disprove it, he didn't bother to check. Lucowich, among others, keep the AHL Stars somewhat veteran heavy.
Oh ... don't you just hate it when you try to get snarky, and it blows up in your face?

From 2/26 in the 2012 Free Agency & 2012-13 Payroll/Contract Limit
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Piqued, I know you asked us to move along, but I really need to make one point.

This rather rude poster insinuated the veteran rule keeps Goddard out.

Since Texas dresses 18 skaters, 12 have to have played less than 260 REGULAR SEASON GAMES.

ONE can have played 320 or fewer REGULAR season games. That means at any time, no more than FIVE can be on a roster who have played more than 320.

Of the players on Texas' roster Brad Lukowich and Eric Goddard obviously fit in the 5 veteran limit.

Maxime Fortunus is the third with 449 regular season games.

With 313 games, Wathier is the one player with less than 320 games. However, Spang also has played less than 320 with only 312 games. However, since only one counts for this group, he falls into the group of 320 or more.

That means Texas could play every veteran, Godard included, and still add one more vet before they reached the limit. However, Godard sits.

If you are going to go out on a limb, be extremely rude, and quote a rule .... you may want to back up what you are saying. Godard is scratched because he has not played well. Texas has more than enough space for their veterans.

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Old
04-09-2012, 07:24 AM
  #342
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I lold. It's the second time he's argued this, too.

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04-09-2012, 10:29 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Semin's at least skilled offensively. There are good arguments for and against signing him. Just have to pick your side.
There is no way i would want Semin on this team. We all know Dallas has scoring issues but Semin played on an gifted team and still struggled. There are way better options to throw big money at IMO that will address our needs better than him.

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04-09-2012, 10:47 AM
  #344
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That is a **** ton of money for a guy with basically one good year and no track record of producing offense to speak of, at any level aside from his 20 year old season in the BCHL.
And whether you think this is a ton of money would be immaterial because that will probably be his market value (it's probably lower, say $3.5-4M) the same way Grossmann's was $3.5M. The market has changed. Either you pay the market-value or you pass. I do agree that there is not much evidence of offense save for those occasions, but I can only say so many times that it's his size, speed, shot-blocking, and shutdown abilities I covet more than that cannon from the blueline.


Last edited by StarsFan74: 04-09-2012 at 11:05 AM.
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04-09-2012, 10:50 AM
  #345
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I don't understand how you think a guy deserving of being on the 3rd pairing can also deserve to be on the PP? He's at the very least a 2nd pairing defenseman, I just don't think they've gotten the right partner for him this season.
Simple, he's a power play specialist at best. He's not a top-four two-way defenceman in the NHL and i think everyone but the Stars can see that.

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04-09-2012, 11:15 AM
  #346
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I really don't get you guys advocating signing Semin.

This is a team that struggled mightily with taking stupid, needless penalties. And you want to add Alexander Semin? That's like adding another Steve Ott. Both guys took 1.2 minors per 60 this season.
Yes but a motivated Semin is one of the best players in the league, offensively and defensively.

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04-09-2012, 11:20 AM
  #347
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Simple, he's a power play specialist at best. He's not a top-four two-way defenceman in the NHL and i think everyone but the Stars can see that.
And I was just thinking that Goligoski is basically Marc Andre Bergeron, except slightly bigger.

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Old
04-09-2012, 11:26 AM
  #348
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Goligoski proved to me this season that he can be a top 4 defenseman. He looked pretty good in his own end, the offense just wasn't there. Get A better PP and a defense-first partner, and he's fine.

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04-09-2012, 11:27 AM
  #349
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I like Garrison, but you have to beware of 1 year flash in the pan players during contract years. I doubt he replicates his numbers again.

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04-09-2012, 11:37 AM
  #350
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We wouldn't just bring him in for offense.

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