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04-06-2012, 09:56 PM
  #176
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His window is closing every day. The new generation of prospects will be breathing down his neck soon, and it is on him to take advantage of his 46 game opportunity. Instead he barely outscored Jake Dowell. I want him to succeed etc, but if it came down to Vincour and Glennie/Smiths/Chiasson for ice time, who would you prefer be out there?
He is part of the new generation.

Glennie, R. Smith, and Chiasson are top 6 prospects. A. Smith probably won't ever make the NHL. They won't be competing for the 3rd line spot, and they aren't up yet, either. We need someone to fill that hole until then, and Vincour will suffice.

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04-06-2012, 10:24 PM
  #177
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He is a frustrating player because he does many things right, but I don't think the scoring is something that can be fixed. The bottom 6 needs to have guys who are fast and or hit. Garbutt is faster, Burish hits more, and if Vincour can't put the puck in the net, he doesn't fit.

He should be given a top 6 role in the AHL to really develop his offense, but I think the NCAA guys are going to be pushing for icetime in Austin as well.


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04-06-2012, 10:34 PM
  #178
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I don't know why Vincour would be frustrating to anyone with realistic expectations. You know what's frustrating? Players who take idiotic penalties and aren't in position, like Adam Burish. Burish doesn't even hit that much. Vincour hits more than him on a per 60 minute basis! All Burish does is run his mouth like the rest of our idiotic team. Garbutt is 26 years old. He's a nice story but Stars fans have to get over their infatuation with him. No rebuilding team in their right mind prioritizes a guy like Ryan Garbutt over someone 5 years younger with much more potential. Somehow 2 points in 19 games doesn't get brought up as a problem with him yet Vincour is expected to score.

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04-06-2012, 10:35 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
He is a frustrating player because he does many things right, but I don't think the scoring is something that can be fixed. The bottom 6 needs to have guys who are fast and or hit. Garbutt is faster, Burish hits more, and if Vincour can't put the puck in the net, he doesn't fit.
Look at Stamkos and his rookie season. People were questioning whether he should even be in the NHL. They got him to work with Gary Roberts, and boom, that offensively talent comes out in full force.

Look at Matt Moulson. A 9th round pick who was never even supposed to make the NHL. Someone gave him a chance, and boom, they've got a 30 goal scorer.

Eriksson only had 6 goals in his first season. Did they give up on him? No, and look what we got.

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04-06-2012, 10:37 PM
  #180
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I don't know why Vincour would be frustrating to anyone with realistic expectations. You know what's frustrating? Players who take idiotic penalties and aren't in position, like Adam Burish. Burish doesn't even hit that much. Vincour hits more than him on a per 60 minute basis! Garbutt is 26 years old. He's a nice story but Stars fans have to get over their infatuation with him. No rebuilding team in their right mind prioritizes a guy like Ryan Garbutt over someone 5 years younger with much more potential. Somehow 2 points in 19 games doesn't get brought up as a problem with him yet Vincour is expected to score.
Completely agree. Garbutt is a 4th liner at best. Burish is just a ****** player now and should be nowhere near the team.

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04-06-2012, 10:53 PM
  #181
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5-6 years? More like once every 20 years for Benn, once every 15 years for Loui.
If the Stars have to wait 20 years to draft another player like Benn, they should fire all of their scouts.

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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Look at Stamkos and his rookie season. People were questioning whether he should even be in the NHL. They got him to work with Gary Roberts, and boom, that offensively talent comes out in full force.
Barry Melrose was. It's partly why he got fired. Melrose was an idiot who had no business coaching again. Once Barry was fired, Stamkos looked fine and scored 23 his rookie year.

As hard on Vincour as I've been, I don't mind seeing him come back. Maybe he'll find hands in the offseason. He's done nothing with the quality ice time he was given, but at the worst, he's an adequate generic 4th liner.


Last edited by Troy McClure: 04-06-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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04-06-2012, 10:59 PM
  #182
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If the Stars have to wait 20 years to draft another player like Benn, they should fire all of their scouts.
I don't think you understand just how good Benn is, which I highly doubt.


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Barry Melrose was. It's partly why he got fired. Melrose was an idiot who had no business coaching again. Once Barry was fired, Stamkos looked fine and scored 23 his rookie year.
And your point is?

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04-06-2012, 11:09 PM
  #183
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Heika mentioned that he doesn't think any of our UFAs will be re-signed before July 1, if at all. That's encouraging to me.

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04-06-2012, 11:13 PM
  #184
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Heika mentioned that he doesn't think any of our UFAs will be re-signed before July 1, if at all. That's encouraging to me.

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04-06-2012, 11:23 PM
  #185
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Heika mentioned that he doesn't think any of our UFAs will be re-signed before July 1, if at all. That's encouraging to me.
Meh. None of the fa's I desperately want off the team


Last edited by Bennrocks: 04-06-2012 at 11:30 PM.
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04-06-2012, 11:25 PM
  #186
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I don't think you understand just how good Benn is, which I highly doubt.
He's very good, but why put the kid in the Hall of Fame before he's accomplished anything? A couple of 60 point seasons doesn't make him a generational talent. I know the Stars are in dire need of the next big thing, but they do the poor kid no favors with the hype they pour on him.

I hope he keeps improving because he is fun to watch, but this pressure to carry the franchise is the kind of thing usually reserved for #1 overall picks. It seems like there is this desire to take the team's best young player (Benn, obviously) and elevate him to a higher status because we've been so desperate for a home grown superstar and so in need of help due to the team's poor performance these past four years.

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And your point is?
I don't think it is useful or accurate to compare Vincour to Stamkos.

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04-06-2012, 11:26 PM
  #187
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Oh Troy, just you wait until vincour scores 70 next year.

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04-06-2012, 11:43 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
I don't know why Vincour would be frustrating to anyone with realistic expectations. You know what's frustrating? Players who take idiotic penalties and aren't in position, like Adam Burish. Burish doesn't even hit that much. Vincour hits more than him on a per 60 minute basis! All Burish does is run his mouth like the rest of our idiotic team. Garbutt is 26 years old. He's a nice story but Stars fans have to get over their infatuation with him. No rebuilding team in their right mind prioritizes a guy like Ryan Garbutt over someone 5 years younger with much more potential. Somehow 2 points in 19 games doesn't get brought up as a problem with him yet Vincour is expected to score.
Bring on the 7g Vincour season!

Garbutt's shown more intensity and drive in 19 games than Vincour in 46. Vincour is a guy you never notice on the ice, Garbutt you notice every time he gets the puck.

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04-06-2012, 11:55 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Bring on the 7g Vincour season!

Garbutt's shown more intensity and drive in 19 games than Vincour in 46. Vincour is a guy you never notice on the ice, Garbutt you notice every time he gets the puck.
Garbutt is hardly an nhl level player and is 26 get over him already.. Vincour is at least as good and is 21 he could improve and is a decent 3rd liner now imo

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04-06-2012, 11:59 PM
  #190
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I noticed Garbutt a nice bit in the past few games. He could very well be a decent 3rd/4th liner on this team.

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04-07-2012, 12:02 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Bring on the 7g Vincour season!

Garbutt's shown more intensity and drive in 19 games than Vincour in 46. Vincour is a guy you never notice on the ice, Garbutt you notice every time he gets the puck.
I dunno. I'd say I notice both of them on the ice. Vincour excels at Nystrom's game. Board battler, puck holder-onto-guy, deft passer, can put the puck on net. It's not like he's been bad... and he's 21. Garbutt is 26. This Garbutt's ONLY chance to make the NHL before he gets into the career AHLer stage. Of course you're going to see him play his heart out, and you know what that's fine he'll be a good 12/13 forward going forward, anything more to expect outta him is gravy, though.

Let's get the guys we have projected to be top 6 offensive talents into the top 6 and give a guy like Vincour either more time in the AHL to work on his skills, or more time in the NHL to figure out the game a bit more. It's not like has much more to figure out besides "get faster at everything and put more pucks on the net".

He has 9 points in 46 games playing mainly 4th line minutes with other 4th liners who haven't shown they can get the NHL game yet. Hopefully the guys we do bring in get the game faster.

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04-07-2012, 12:02 AM
  #192
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He should be given a top 6 role in the AHL to really develop his offense, but I think the NCAA guys are going to be pushing for icetime in Austin as well.
This sentiment gets thrown around a lot. Vincour was given his top 6 time in the AHL to "develop his offense." He scored 11 goals in 18 games, averaging close to 3 Shots/Game. Sure 18 games isn't a while, but he showed he could score at the AHL level and got called up. Sending him down to the AHL again isn't going to do much. He needs to practice against NHL defenseman and Goalies to develop his offensive game.

Quote:
Garbutt's shown more intensity and drive in 19 games than Vincour in 46. Vincour is a guy you never notice on the ice, Garbutt you notice every time he gets the puck.
Garbutt's expendable and should be replaced by Sceviour next season, who's proven he can score at the AHL level. Honestly people got this infatuation with Garbutt from his first few games, but there was a good middle stretch there where he was pretty brutal and didn't do much at all. The last few games of the season he came back on (after being a healthy scratch for a while), but this sentiment that he deserves to be on the roster is a bit silly. He's a 26 year old AHLer who can crash and bang. Comparing him to Vincour, who plays a skill game and has shown to be able to generate scoring opportunities (although not bury them) is pretty silly.


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04-07-2012, 12:02 AM
  #193
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I hope he keeps improving because he is fun to watch, but this pressure to carry the franchise is the kind of thing usually reserved for #1 overall picks.
He's arguably the second best player from his draft year. What's your point exactly? He doesn't seem particularly burdened out there by the expectations placed on him.

The organization and many fans elevate him higher than you think he should be because they just disagree with your assessment of the player.

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04-07-2012, 12:03 AM
  #194
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Bring on the 7g Vincour season!

Garbutt's shown more intensity and drive in 19 games than Vincour in 46. Vincour is a guy you never notice on the ice, Garbutt you notice every time he gets the puck.
This is exactly right. You notice Garbutt all the time.

Also, why can't fans be frustrated that Vincour winds up with good chances but can only shoot into the goalie's chest? When was the last time he even generated a chance? I cant think of one recently, while Garbutt nearly got Tom Wandell a goal last game (FYI I know this isn't a strong argument to make).

It comes down to this: What does Vincour do exactly? The role playing forwards have a specialty, what is Vincour's?

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04-07-2012, 12:08 AM
  #195
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Heika mentioned that he doesn't think any of our UFAs will be re-signed before July 1, if at all. That's encouraging to me.
Why is this encouraging? We let Woywitka and Seagal go last season, and replaced them with Pardy and Dowell. I think we should let Dowell, Souray, Peterson, and Dvorak (he is the same player as Vincour) go, but who is out there to replace them with?

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04-07-2012, 12:12 AM
  #196
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This sentiment gets thrown around a lot. Vincour was given his top 6 time in the AHL to "develop his offense." He scored 11 goals in 18 games, averaging close to 3 Shots/Game. Sure 18 games isn't a while, but he showed he could score at the AHL level and got called up. Sending him down to the AHL again isn't going to do much. He needs to practice against NHL defenseman and Goalies to develop his offensive game.



Garbutt's expendable and should be replaced by Sceviour next season, who's proven he can score at the AHL level. Honestly people got this infatuation with Garbutt from his first few games, but there was a good middle stretch there where he was pretty brutal and didn't do much at all. The last few games of the season he came back on (after being a healthy scratch for a while), but this sentiment that he deserves to be on the roster is a bit silly. He's a 26 year old AHLer who can crash and bang. Comparing him to Vincour, who plays a skill game and has shown to be able to generate scoring opportunities (although not bury them) is pretty silly.
Garbutt's zone entry skill are better than the line he play on (and imo beyond Vincour's), which is coincidentally something this team needs. He also creates scoring chance all the time, how you miss that but praise Vincour is beyond me. Vincours only skill I on the boards or shooting cent chest on the goalie.

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04-07-2012, 12:14 AM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Why is this encouraging? We let Woywitka and Seagal go last season, and replaced them with Pardy and Dowell. I think we should let Dowell, Souray, Peterson, and Dvorak (he is the same player as Vincour) go, but who is out there to replace them with?
Petersen is a 15th forward.
Dowell is an okay 13th forward, but Godard has a 1 way and will be up in the NHL sitting in the press box for most of the year.
Dvorak is replaced by a cheaper Vincour, and was only brought in to acclimate him to the NHL.
Souray... well he's getting up there and the Stars will probably either make a splash in free agency or hang their hopes on Nemeth (big guy playing against men and doing well in the SEL) to solidify a bottom pair.
Burish is a pretty decent 4th liner, but he's going to be expensive and expendable with guys like Garbutt and Wandell being cheap RFAs, and ideally guys like Nystrom and Fiddler moving DOWN the lineup and getting a bit less ice time.

And I would MUCH rather have a guy putting shots to a goalie's chest than them missing high and wide every time. Either you get a team on their heels with offensive zone faceoffs or you get a rebound if the goalie fumbles the puck. High and wide just means an odd man break or having to dig up the puck again.

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04-07-2012, 12:17 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
His window is closing every day. The new generation of prospects will be breathing down his neck soon, and it is on him to take advantage of his 46 game opportunity. Instead he barely outscored Jake Dowell. I want him to succeed etc, but if it came down to Vincour and Glennie/Smiths/Chiasson for ice time, who would you prefer be out there?
A bit late on this but this but I want to reply to it. I'd easily choose the guy who's shown he can generate chances at the NHL level, and that's Vincour.

Chiasson and Smith may have potential, but they're unknowns at this point. You can't say you'd prefer them over Vincour just on potential alone. Vincour has shown he can do everything but score at the NHL level. He's the same as everyone else on that list, and he's further along in hsi development than any of them. Is his ceiling as high? Definitely no. But he's proven more than any of them at this point.

And how can you even bring Glennie into the discussion? Glennie has proven absolutely nothing to consider him more than an AHLer for life at this point. Vincour has outproduced him at the AHL level (again small size but still) and has shown he can play at the NHL level, if at a bottom 6 level. Glennie has nothing going for him but pedigree atm. I'd take Vincour 10/10 right now because Glennie has nothing but hopes and dreams attached to him to believe he'll be a better player.

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04-07-2012, 12:20 AM
  #199
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Godard has a 1 way and will be up in the NHL sitting in the press box for most of the year.
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Godard bought out or just sit in the AHL. It seems the team's moved away from dressing enforcers, and I'm in support of that as well.

Quote:
And I would MUCH rather have a guy putting shots to a goalie's chest than them missing high and wide every time. Either you get a team on their heels with offensive zone faceoffs or you get a rebound if the goalie fumbles the puck. High and wide just means an odd man break or having to dig up the puck again.
Agreed. How anyone could want a guy who just crashes and bangs over someone who legitimately wins puck battles and gets the puck on net is beyond me. Eventually those pucks start going in, or you generate rebounds. There's a reason so many advanced statistics put high emphasis on SoGs. There's a reason Neal scored 40 goals this year, and one of them is he took nearly 150 more shots than he ever did before (along with Malkin and PP time etc etc). Not that I'm comparing Vincour to Neal, but players who shoot more tend to score more.

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04-07-2012, 12:25 AM
  #200
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Petersen is a 15th forward.
Dowell is an okay 13th forward, but Godard has a 1 way and will be up in the NHL sitting in the press box for most of the year.
Dvorak is replaced by a cheaper Vincour, and was only brought in to acclimate him to the NHL.
Souray... well he's getting up there and the Stars will probably either make a splash in free agency or hang their hopes on Nemeth (big guy playing against men and doing well in the SEL) to solidify a bottom pair.
Burish is a pretty decent 4th liner, but he's going to be expensive and expendable with guys like Garbutt and Wandell being cheap RFAs, and ideally guys like Nystrom and Fiddler moving DOWN the lineup and getting a bit less ice time.

And I would MUCH rather have a guy putting shots to a goalie's chest than them missing high and wide every time. Either you get a team on their heels with offensive zone faceoffs or you get a rebound if the goalie fumbles the puck. High and wide just means an odd man break or having to dig up the puck again.
I hope you are wrong about Godard, let him sit in the AHL pressbox. I think we can and should resign Burish for cheap.

The Dowells and Petersons were not the problem this season, and as much as I want the Stars to sign players at the top of the depth chart, there aren't that many out there, and they will just sign the next few 4th liners.

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