Both trades were good. Both teams are happy and all the players seem to be. Goligoski is going to be a good defenseman, and Dalls needed to make room for him and Benn to step up. Benn made neal expendable, and in a couple years Gogo will be just fine. On the other side of the island, Lupul was not working out in Anaheim and they didn't think Gardiner was ready right away. FB fit their plans, and they thought they were getting a piece that would be a difference maker in the playoffs, except they took half they year off.
Win/win/win/win trade the way I see it. Nobody won the way Neal won though.
you don't just include a prospect of Jake Gardiner's caliber in a trade for a Francois Beauchemin because you don't think he will be ready right away and you think a defensive d-man would be nice for the Playoffs unless you wanna look like an idiot
you don't just include a prospect of Jake Gardiner's caliber in a trade for a Francois Beauchemin because you don't think he will be ready right away and you think a defensive d-man would be nice for the Playoffs unless you wanna look like an idiot
guy has stud d-man written all over him
the Beauchemin trade was HORRIBLE
Was Gardiner signed by the Ducks or did he sign his first contract with the Leafs? I believe it was the latter. It could have also been that Gardiner would not sign with them. I don't know for sure and neither do you, but there are no guarantees in this game. Gardiner may have busted in Anaheim (unlikely, but possible) and they got a veteran NHL proven defenseman in the process. I don't think Gardiner would've helped them win this year and more than Gardiner, and it looks like Anaheim was in a win now mode when they dealt him.
You always hear that if you put so and so with Malkin/Crosby they will score 30 goals.
Funny thing is, Neal is their first 30 goal winger in more than a decade.
So that tells you right there a lot of it has to do with his rocket shot and ability to find the back of the net.
The other side of the coin is that Malkin now has someone to finish for him... People are under this impression Malkin gives Neal a wide open net with an easy tap in for every goal. I think he has maybe one goal like that all season.
Was Gardiner signed by the Ducks or did he sign his first contract with the Leafs? I believe it was the latter. It could have also been that Gardiner would not sign with them. I don't know for sure and neither do you, but there are no guarantees in this game. Gardiner may have busted in Anaheim (unlikely, but possible) and they got a veteran NHL proven defenseman in the process. I don't think Gardiner would've helped them win this year and more than Gardiner, and it looks like Anaheim was in a win now mode when they dealt him.
I thought one of the reasons Anaheim included Gardiner was the fact they had Schultz in the pipeline, as well as Fowler and Sbisa. The fact that it appears Schultz won't sign and Gardiner turned out to be better than thought immediately is fine in hindsight.
Of the two, the Anaheim - Toronto trade appears to be worse in hindsight. However, the Dallas - Pittsburgh trade was a clear Dallas win last year when Neal couldn't score.
IMO Neal is much more than Malkins product. He's wrister is insanely good. He could score 30+ on other teams. Of course playing with Malkin helps but imo not that much that he about doubles the goals Neal scores.
Ducks wouldn't have made playoffs if they hadn't done that trade, and Cam Fowler wouldn't have had a steady partner. On the other hand, Lupul would have been moved regardless at the end of that season.
Trade itself was more than fine, not signing Beauchemin back in 2009 was pretty stupid mistake by Murray.
Gardiner looks like he is going to be a fine young defenseman for a while, with great offensive upside and improving d-play. Lupul has great chemistry with 81 and we'll see how he recovers from that injury. Beauchemin was pretty average for the Leafs. He wasn't TERRIBLE but he was underwhelming for the most part. Great trade for Burke.
Well then I guess Mario Lemieux would have topped off as a 0 goal scorer for other teams because he never scored more than that for anyone but Pittsburgh...
Neal is definitely benefiting from playing with Malkin...but he's not exactly tipping in empty netters only. His shot is beyond ridiculous and most of the goals he's scored this year are because of that shot. It's been a symbiotic relationship with Malkin and Neal certainly could put up damn fine numbers elsewhere.
The Penguins won that trade easily, but it still wasn't nearly as bad as fans of other teams want to make it seem. Both teams traded strength for weakness and Goligoski, when healthy, has been very good for Dallas. Niskanen was a throw in that Dallas wanted nothing to do with last year (and saved them some money by getting rid of)...the fact he's turned out nicely in Pittsburgh is a bonus, but he probably was close to being waived if he wasn't included in that deal.
And the re-writing of history with Kevin Stevens always amazes me. His decline in production is because he suffered one of the most brutal injuries in sports history which kicked off an awful chain of events that included severe depression which led to drug abuse. Kevin Stevens pre-injury and post-injury were entirely different players. Unless Neal fractures his face and develops a drug problem they'll never be in comparable situations. But yeah...Neal already had a 27 goal season in Dallas and had 21 in 58 last year there...why no one seems to think he'd be capable of scoring 30 without Malkin just dumbfounds me. The dude is 24 and has never scored less than 22 goals in a season...he's always been a good player. He was expected to come in and cosnistently give us 30+ goals, regardless of that lame 'he's never done it before' argument. It's not like we acquired some 30 year old coming off hip surgery, we acquired a 23 year old who had scored 48 goals in 137 games over the prior 1 2/3 seasons (a 29 goal per year pace over 82 games).
To answer the OP's question...Beauchemin. I've never thought much of Lupul, but that was still overpayment for the guy even without Lupul going all freak show this season. The thing that makes that trade worse, more than anything, is that they could have just re-signed Beauchemin in the first place and avoided having to give up assets to get him back.
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“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 04-04-2012 at 10:35 AM.
You always hear that if you put so and so with Malkin/Crosby they will score 30 goals.
Funny thing is, Neal is their first 30 goal winger in more than a decade.
So that tells you right there a lot of it has to do with his rocket shot and ability to find the back of the net.
The other side of the coin is that Malkin now has someone to finish for him... People are under this impression Malkin gives Neal a wide open net with an easy tap in for every goal. I think he has maybe one goal like that all season.
Not sure I follow. Neal is a great finisher, but without Malkin to create the space and draw defenders to him, it gives Neal a lot more time and space to work, as well as more offensive opportunities with a center who can basically create them out of thin air.
I don't think anyone believes Malkin is the only reason Neal can score, but I don't think anyone can dispute that Malkin is the reason Neal's production has gone up so drastically from last season.
Not sure I follow. Neal is a great finisher, but without Malkin to create the space and draw defenders to him, it gives Neal a lot more time and space to work, as well as more offensive opportunities with a center who can basically create them out of thin air.
I don't think anyone believes Malkin is the only reason Neal can score, but I don't think anyone can dispute that Malkin is the reason Neal's production has gone up so drastically from last season.
The reality is that Neal has 18 power play goals this year, not all of those were Malkin passes, and even strength Malkin isn't just setting Neal up. I think a good 85% of Neal's production is ALL Neal with the remainder going to a mix of Malkin, Kunitz, Letang and to a lesser extent anyone else. Neal is very underrated by people on the outside looking in. His shot is what makes him a pure sniper regardless of who he's playing with.
The reality is that Neal has 18 power play goals this year, not all of those were Malkin passes, and even strength Malkin isn't just setting Neal up. I think a good 85% of Neal's production is ALL Neal with the remainder going to a mix of Malkin, Kunitz, Letang and to a lesser extent anyone else. Neal is very underrated by people on the outside looking in. His shot is what makes him a pure sniper regardless of who he's playing with.
He must have worked on it over the summer because he was a post sniper with Dallas.
I always thought Kevin Stevens was a good goal scorer because of who he played with. He proved that when he came to play for the Rangers. James Neal reminds me of Stevens. Take him out of Pitts and watch him score 15-25 only.
Stevens' offensive career was ended more by Rich Pilon than by leaving Pittsburgh.
I am still shocked that the plus came from Dallas. I thought the Pens were gonna have to give up a pick or Strait or Bortuzzo or something. I was floored that Dallas gave up something as well. I thought they got fleeced.
Niskanen was considered worthless and probably a minus to Dallas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian
He must have worked on it over the summer because he was a post sniper with Dallas.
With Pittsburgh most of the time he just fires it as hard as he can which is great because you don't need to pick corners when you have a good release and great velocity.
The reality is that Neal has 18 power play goals this year, not all of those were Malkin passes, and even strength Malkin isn't just setting Neal up. I think a good 85% of Neal's production is ALL Neal with the remainder going to a mix of Malkin, Kunitz, Letang and to a lesser extent anyone else. Neal is very underrated by people on the outside looking in. His shot is what makes him a pure sniper regardless of who he's playing with.
I'm not saying Malkin is the only reason Neal is scoring. I'm saying having Malkin centering him is a big reason why he went from 22 goals and 45 points last season to 40 goals and 81 points this season.
Neal would have 50 goals if he played with Sid instead of Malkin.
I doubt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
I'm not saying Malkin is the only reason Neal is scoring. I'm saying having Malkin centering him is a big reason why he went from 22 goals and 45 points last season to 40 goals and 81 points this season.
I think the PP is the biggest reason that he's seen such a huge jump in his goal scoring, His 27 goal season in Dallas he only scored 2 on the PP (24ES, 1SH) compared to this season where he's racked up 18 on the PP (22 ES). While obviously Malkin helps there to ,he's been a huge reason the PP has been successful as he's been the 2nd weapon with Crosby out. If Crosby's healthy for most of next season I think he'll probably lose a few PP goals and drop to 35ish goals.
