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Old
04-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #101
Cloned
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
RNH was not capable of anything more than what he gave his team this year. Its an insult to suggest otherwise.

No doubt he needs to improve in some areas...but...it wasn't going to happen between when he was drafted and right now.

He overachieved just making it past 9 games, he was one of the LEAST "NHL ready" top picks in June and here he is...still going good.

Not as good as he was in October. Granted.

But an easy 'A'.
Once again, that's grading based on expectations, which I wasn't doing.

I'm grading against the grid, and whereever a player may fall is not affected by anything else other than performance.

As an offensive player, the only way RNH gets an A is if he puts up offense similar to what Eberle did this year. Fair or not, that's the way it works. If you're a freshman at the UofA and you decide to take a class that is of higher difficulty against mostly sophomores or seniors, and you get 70% while the top guy gets 90%, you shouldn't get an A just because you did well for your situation.

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Last edited by Cloned: 04-05-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
04-05-2012, 01:11 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
The bolded would be why you end up giving everyone a passing grade on a failing team.

When you compare the Oilers to each other...of course they aren't "failing". THey all suck together.

They fail to compare to most other teams in the league. Thats why they're getting 'F''s
They do fail compare to most other teams in the league. Do you really think the Hawks players would grade out this way? Most of them would get As to Bs, and you might get a few Cs. Similarly, with a team like the Jets, you might get mostly Bs and high Cs. For a team to have the majority of the players at a C level or lower, that's basically failing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
I think it depends on how you're really using the grading scheme.

If you're going "anything less than 50% = F" then sure. But what is 50%?

The way I read the OP, baseline is C. Anything below that means the player was ultimately a disappointment. No player should be happy with a D and I wouldn't consider a D to be a "passing grade."
Yeah, that's what I was going for.

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Old
04-05-2012, 03:01 PM
  #103
joestevens29
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Everyone's grading system is different and it depends what they are based on. What I can't figure out is how we are 29th when we only have two players at D+ or worse and to be frank both are quite minor pieces to the big picture.

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Old
04-05-2012, 03:34 PM
  #104
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I'll add "logic" to my grades.

Eberle: B+ The most consistant offensive production. Huge steps forward but didn't really takeover games and was shutdown on occasion. Also, he lost to David Agee in the Canadian celebrity gaptooth contest.
RNH: A-Excellent year for a rook. Ninja'd the opposition into submission for a good stretch. Fizzled out a bit.
Smid: A The best player on the team. Solidified whatever his pairing was for the most part.
Hall: C+ Above average for effort. Drawbacks include injury, chaotic play, and theory of a deadman.
Petry: B Good season. Awkward haircut.
Dubnyk: C Average. Not bad for a supposed backup.
Gagner: D Passing grade due to an epic record-breaking night.
Smyth: D- Effective in a 3x2 area in front of the opposing net, that is all.
Shultz: C+ A little above average from my expectations. Not much though.
Jones: C+ Solid hair.
Horc: F Still cannot be considered remotely close to a top line centre.
Sutton: C Didn't sleughfoot effectively enough. This is both good and bad...therefore average.
Petrell: C Average. Good for him though, since that means he is an NHLer.
Potter: C+ Decent offense from an AHL bound Dman.
Belanger: D Faceoffs.
Hemsky: F Too bad. Try again. Next time be more awesome.
Eager: F Being fast was not what he was signed for.
Whitney: F Rehab much? Hopefully he is not done as a top-4 Dman.
Paajarvi: F Didn't stick. Try again.
Lander: C+ Good for a rook. Sharp haircut.
Khabibulin: F Amazing start. That might have been his swan song as he seems unable to handle a full season.
Peckham: F Hope he gets back on track. He barely existed this year. His nickname 'teddy pecks' gets an A though.
Hordichuk: C- Definately a pass. But maybe below average for an enforcer/didn't get enough ice time.
Omark: F Swedish.
Barker: F Had a few good games, did not succeed in his goal to prove himself.
Fedun: A For effort and yet another sharp haircut.

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Old
04-05-2012, 05:46 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
So you're telling me that Renney is afraid of losing his job so badly, that he's actively deciding to NOT play the player that management has a mancrush on. You've actually just contradicted yourself. If Horcoff gets the minutes because he's favored by upper management, then Renney is undermining his position by playing Horcoff less and the kids more.

Maybe Renney was afraid to bench Horcoff or reduce his role. Maybe realizing that he's going to lose his job makes him think that wins/progress are more important than the awkward discussion regarding Horcoff. OR he knows he's gone so he's going to do things his way.

What you're telling me is that if Horcoff still played exactly the same, but was paid way less, you'd be okay with it. I think that that is absurd. Horcoff hasn't had a good season this season, any way you slice it.

Never said I'd be ok with it. In his role which has been determined by his salary, he REALLY sucks. 1st/2nd line player playing like that is much worse than a 4th line player. Different expectations and role.

What you're also saying is that Renney isn't at fault for this season, because he's had his ability to control the bench handcuffed by upper management. If this is the case, then it will be the same regardless of the who the coach is.

Everyone is at fault for this season, but look at the roster and tell me he hasn't been handcuffed somewhat. He has just been part of the problem.

Katz undoubtedly thinks that Lowe can positively contribute. The guy doesn't become a billionaire by employing pure nepotism in his management position. It's a conspiracy theory because you're hypothesizing that Katz gives out his position to Lowe based purely on the fact that he's friends with Lowe, in spite of Katz believing that Lowe is incompetent. This is an absurd position.
Believing one man hiring his buddy is a conspiracy is absurd. That wouldn't be a conspiracy, that would be stupidity. I'm saying he overlooks some deficiencies in his abilities because he's friends with him. Happens in very successful businesses all the time for senior employees.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:59 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohaj View Post
I'll add "logic" to my grades.

Eberle: B+ The most consistant offensive production. Huge steps forward but didn't really takeover games and was shutdown on occasion. Also, he lost to David Agee in the Canadian celebrity gaptooth contest.
RNH: A-Excellent year for a rook. Ninja'd the opposition into submission for a good stretch. Fizzled out a bit.
Smid: A The best player on the team. Solidified whatever his pairing was for the most part.
Hall: C+ Above average for effort. Drawbacks include injury, chaotic play, and theory of a deadman.
Petry: B Good season. Awkward haircut.
Dubnyk: C Average. Not bad for a supposed backup.
Gagner: D Passing grade due to an epic record-breaking night.
Smyth: D- Effective in a 3x2 area in front of the opposing net, that is all.
Shultz: C+ A little above average from my expectations. Not much though.
Jones: C+ Solid hair.
Horc: F Still cannot be considered remotely close to a top line centre.
Sutton: C Didn't sleughfoot effectively enough. This is both good and bad...therefore average.
Petrell: C Average. Good for him though, since that means he is an NHLer.
Potter: C+ Decent offense from an AHL bound Dman.
Belanger: D Faceoffs.
Hemsky: F Too bad. Try again. Next time be more awesome.
Eager: F Being fast was not what he was signed for.
Whitney: F Rehab much? Hopefully he is not done as a top-4 Dman.
Paajarvi: F Didn't stick. Try again.
Lander: C+ Good for a rook. Sharp haircut.
Khabibulin: F Amazing start. That might have been his swan song as he seems unable to handle a full season.
Peckham: F Hope he gets back on track. He barely existed this year. His nickname 'teddy pecks' gets an A though.
Hordichuk: C- Definately a pass. But maybe below average for an enforcer/didn't get enough ice time.
Omark: F Swedish.
Barker: F Had a few good games, did not succeed in his goal to prove himself.
Fedun: A For effort and yet another sharp haircut.
LOL@Haircuts.

Mods, feel free to delete my posts in this thread and replace it with a replica of what he just said.

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Old
04-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  #107
CanadianCommie
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(using cloned's list here)

Jordan Eberle:
A; Massive breakout year. I expected good things from him, but he delivered GREAT things. His shot is as brilliant as his mind for the game. He's already beaten most expectations. I can't wait to see what he brings next year

Taylor Hall: B-; Hall is probably going to get a letter sooner rather than later. He's becoming a heart and soul guy who has the skill to back it up. His injury issues were a bit of a setback this year, and he still needs to work a bit on his finishing ability in certain situations, but he's a beauty nonetheless.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: B; Considering he's a small 18 year old rookie watching him play strong against bigger guys and dish out some wicked-sick passes is great...he also has an underrated shot. He needs to work on a few things, like faceoffs and being a bigger impact player on the road, but he's only going to get better, and that should scare opposing players.

Ales Hemsky: D; the D is being generous but he's been better since his contract extension. Otherwise, a pretty disastrous season for him and I hope he rebounds.

Ryan Smyth: C+; he did what he was asked to do for the most part but at his age and physical wear and tear he was asked to do too much this year. Otherwise I'm glad to see him back.

Shawn Horcoff: C ; Horcoff wasn't terrible, but his skillset appears to be deteriorating at a fairly rapid pace. he's still useful as a 3rd line centre, but he can't be called upon for anything more than that.
Sam Gagner: C ; a small step forward for Gagner this year. He's still way too inconsistent on the nights when he's not in top-form and he goes on some pretty crazy offensive droughts. I really like his smarts and hustle and I hope he can capture some consistency, but if he can't then he has no place on the team going forward. He still feels like too much of a stop-gap and NOT a permanent solution.

Ryan Jones: B-; Given his role I think he performed admirably, although he, like the rest of the team, had a bad stretch here and there. still, he's not too far from a 35 point season and Has shown he can, for short stints, move up the lineup when called upon. I like his role as a depth scorer.

Eric Belanger: D+ ; His inability to get anything going offensively is a real downer on his grade. His faceoff %age and being a part of a decent PK saves him, and I am hoping he rebounds. he does need to be a lot better in terms of production though, so his season has been a disappointment.

Magnus Paajarvi: F; I feel really bad for him having such a crummy year, but let's call a spade a spade; it was a failure of a season as an NHLer for poor Magnus.

Linus Omark: D-; he doesn't really have a place on the team right now and has only shown marginally better than Magnus at the NHL level.

Ben Eager: D; I expected more but I also don't know if he's being utilized properly either. We have seen flashes of the Ben Eager that got the contract, but it's not enough.

Lennart Petrell: C; petrell has done what he's been asked to do. He could be a little more productive perhaps but as a 4th-line energy plug he's perfectly fine for it.

Darcy Hordichuk: D; I like him as a player on the team, he's not really that used either. I almost didn't grade him but meh.

Anton Lander: C; He didn't do any better or worse than expected. He's clearly able to play at the NHL level but needs time to be able to EXCEL at the NHL level. Hopefully a strong playoff campaign in OKC and a good off-season program helps him take the next step.

Teemu Hartikainen: C-; I thought he might have been able to plug into the lineup this year from the start, so that was disappointing. He clearly is a strong finisher, but he definitely needs to start strong as well if he's going to be in the NHL. However, he has played well recently so that gives me hope.
--

Ryan Whitney:
C-; part of it is injury, part of it is lacklustre stretches. A healthy Whitney should be able to do better next year.
Ladislav Smid: A; totally beat my expectations. His contract looks like a steal now practically. I love the way he's developing into an effective shutdown guy.
Jeff Petry: B; I almost gave him a minus for the first half of the year but he's been such a force in the 2nd half that I've definitely bought into the hype. He plays all situations and chews up 25+ minutes a night and looks like he's well on track to be an impact player on the top pairing for the Oilers.

Andy Sutton: C+; sutton's skillset is limited but I thought he made the most of what he has. he took a few poor suspensions this year but otherwise was just as advertised.

Cam Barker: F- (times infinity); I hated this signing at the start of the year and I now feel it was entirely justified. One year deal or not he is a wasted roster space and is easily one of the worst (if not outright worst) signing of tambellini's tenure. Terrible hockey player. I never want to see him in Oilers' silks again.

Corey Potter: C-; STRONG start to the season, faded at the end, but he's still a useful bottom-pairing guy who is useful on the PP. I hope he is a little better next year.

Nick Schultz: B; better than advertised. He is exactly what that 2nd pairing needs. Low-event minute soaker who will support whomever he plays with AND can contribute at the other end when an opportunity knocks.

Colten Teubert: C; considering he's a depth callup I thought he's done somewhere between "okay" and "fairly well" in his stints. He is pretty much as advertised, with some room to grow.
Theo Peckham:
D; not a disaster of a season but a real step back. Peckham needs to step it up or he'll be passed by teubert on the charts.
--

Devan Dubnyk:
B-; Dubnyk didn't play much at the start and struggled at times to be consistent, but he's found his game lately and looks like the clear-cut number 1 (barring a trade for a better option). i hope he's the starter next year.
Nikolai Khabibulin: C-; It might be generous, but Khabbi played AWESOME at the start. Frankly, I think he was played far too often, but as a veteran backup he's fine, although his inability to get wins in the last half of the year is troubling.

OVERALL TEAM GRADE: C-.

I expected a somewhat stronger campaign from the team. I'm not happy with a 29th place finish, but they have clearly shown improvement over last year, which still earns them some recognition.

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Old
04-06-2012, 02:32 PM
  #108
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Jordan Eberle: A

Taylor Hall: B

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: A

Ales Hemsky: C

Ryan Smyth: C+

Shawn Horcoff: F

Sam Gagner: B

Ryan Jones: C+

Eric Belanger: C

Magnus Paajarvi: C

Ben Eager: C-

Lennart Petrell: A

Darcy Hordichuk: A

Anton Lander: C+

Ryan Whitney: C

Ladislav Smid: A

Jeff Petry: B-

Andy Sutton: A

Cam Barker: F

Corey Potter: C

Nick Schultz: B

Theo Peckham: C

Devan Dubnyk: B

Nikolai Khabibulin: D

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Old
04-06-2012, 03:22 PM
  #109
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Jordan Eberle: A+

Taylor Hall: B

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: A

Ales Hemsky: D

Ryan Smyth: C

Shawn Horcoff: D

Sam Gagner: C-

Ryan Jones: B-

Eric Belanger: D

Magnus Paajarvi: D

Ben Eager: D

Lennart Petrell: B+

Darcy Hordichuk: A

Anton Lander: C+

Ryan Whitney: C-

Ladislav Smid: A

Jeff Petry: B+

Andy Sutton: B

Cam Barker: F

Corey Potter: D

Nick Schultz: B+

Theo Peckham: F

Devan Dubnyk: C+

Nikolai Khabibulin: D

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:41 PM
  #110
ZenOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Nope I don't. I think Cloned's mark of C- is fair for Horcoff. Smyth was better than Horcoff, especially at the start of the season.

Both Horcoff and Smyth get boatloads of TOI, but is that a good thing when they're usually playing against opposition's top line, usually starting with defensive zone faceoffs and were the first line PK? AND people expect them to score?

On the flip side, the kids, especially early, Eberle - RNH and Hall got the easiest zone starts, did not play PK and did not have to play against the oppositions top scorers.

Horcoff's plus minus is horrendous, but its expected considering a) who he was playing against and b) he didn't score enough on 5 v 5. In short, Horcoff is no Mikko Koivu, even though he's paid like one.

Everything has context. If you can understand how the veterans were used then you might understand their performance. Similarly with the kids.

If the kids get tougher matchups next year, some people might call that the "sophomore jinx", it's not a jinx - it's tougher matchups.
hogwash. Horcs line is outplayed by most teams fourth, third, second and first lines. It doesn't matter who he is out there against. He is an epic failure. F-

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:46 PM
  #111
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Jordan Eberle: A+

Taylor Hall: B

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: A

Ales Hemsky: D

Ryan Smyth: C-

Shawn Horcoff: F

Sam Gagner: C

Ryan Jones: C+

Eric Belanger: F

Magnus Paajarvi: F

Ben Eager: D

Lennart Petrell: B

Darcy Hordichuk: IP (missing coursework)

Anton Lander: C

Ryan Whitney: D+

Ladislav Smid: B

Jeff Petry: B-

Andy Sutton: C+

Cam Barker: F

Corey Potter: D

Nick Schultz: IP (missing coursework)

Theo Peckham: D+

Devan Dubnyk: B-

Nikolai Khabibulin: F


Last edited by Ebs: 04-06-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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Old
04-06-2012, 11:48 PM
  #112
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The oilers should be graded just like Maddox grades children's art work.

Look it up.

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:06 AM
  #113
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Tom Gilbert B-

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:13 AM
  #114
T-Funk
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Tom Gilbert B-
who?

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:13 AM
  #115
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Some of you guys are way too harsh on Khabi. He carried us at the start of the season.

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:20 AM
  #116
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meh nm

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Old
04-09-2012, 12:18 PM
  #117
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Edmonton Oilers 2011-2012 Report Cards - Goaltenders and Defencemen

Edmonton - April 9, 2012 - With the Edmonton Oilers loss to the Vancouver Canucks on Saturday night, it brought to an end another season of disappointment in Oil Country. While there were many positives on individual fronts, as a team the 2011-2012 campaign would have to be deemed as a failure. With the season now completed, the time has come to look back and give out my year end report cards. Each player's rating is based on their performance from opening night and takes into consideration the role in which every player was expected to play, heading into the season. Today the focus is on Edmonton's goaltenders and defencemen, while tomorrow I'll examine the forward group.


Goaltenders

Devan Dubnyk: GP - 47 Record: 20-20-3 GAA - 2.67 SV% - .914
The twenty-five year old carried the Oilers over the final three months of the season and finally started to prove that he just might have what it takes to be a true number one starter in this league. While Dubnyk struggled when given the opportunity as the guy early on, his strong play over the final half of the season is a great sign moving forward. He now needs to show that he can do it from the start of the year and not just play at this level when the team's season is essentially over and there is no pressure...which is exactly what he has done in the last two seasons.
Grade: B

Read More

http://ourhometown.ca/sports/RS0202.php

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04-09-2012, 12:56 PM
  #118
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Agreed with all the grades outside of Sutton. Frankly, he's had a great season in his role. There were times where he was asked to play above his ability, which may have skewed the results, but he did all the little things right. He doesn't have the foot speed that some of our more mobile defenders have, but he really didn't get burned all that often. Add that to the fact that he showed more offensive flair () than everyone but Petry, and it's silly to have him so low.

I'd have to give him a solid B

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04-09-2012, 02:11 PM
  #119
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Jordan Eberle: A

Taylor Hall: B

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: A-

Ales Hemsky: D

Ryan Smyth: C

Shawn Horcoff: D-

Sam Gagner: C-

Ryan Jones: C+

Eric Belanger: D

Magnus Paajarvi: D+

Ben Eager: D

Lennart Petrell: D

Darcy Hordichuk: C+

Anton Lander: C-

Ryan Whitney: C-

Ladislav Smid: B

Jeff Petry: C+

Andy Sutton: C-

Cam Barker: F

Corey Potter: D

Nick Schultz: B

Theo Peckham: D+

Devan Dubnyk: C

Nikolai Khabibulin: C

Tom Renney: B-

Steve Tambellini: D+

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Old
04-09-2012, 04:31 PM
  #120
Master Lok
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Everyone's grading system is different and it depends what they are based on. What I can't figure out is how we are 29th when we only have two players at D+ or worse and to be frank both are quite minor pieces to the big picture.
That's easy, it's because you forgot to grade Tambellini for assembling the roster.

Tambellini: F.

It's as simple as that. Most of the players performed a little below or above expectations. The problem is that the players just aren't good enough.

When your top four defenders at the start of the season was Whitney, Smid, Gilbert and..... Barker?

When your two goaltenders is a crappy over the hill goaltender who has one win in the New Year, and a young goaltender who has yet to prove his consistency, you're in trouble.

The problem isn't that the players individual performances were much below their capability level, the problem is that this shouldn't have been the group responsible for reaching the playoffs. They're simply not good enough.

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04-10-2012, 07:03 AM
  #121
fuhr
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Oilers Report Cards - Forwards... Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins lead the way

Edmonton - April 10, 2012 - With the Edmonton Oilers loss to the Vancouver Canucks on Saturday night, it brought to an end another season of disappointment in Oil Country. While there were many positives on individual fronts, as a team the 2011-2012 campaign would have to be deemed as a failure. With the season now completed, the time has come to look back and give out my year end report cards. Each player's rating is based on their performance from opening night and takes into consideration the role in which every player was expected to play, heading into the season. While yesterday the focus was on Edmonton's goaltenders and defence, today the focus shifts over to the forward group.

Forwards

Eric Belanger: (GP) 78 (G) 4 (A) 12 (Pts) 16 (Plus/Minus) -13 (PIM) 32
The main purpose of bringing in the veteran centre was to help the Oilers in the faceoff dot and on the penalty kill, which is exactly what he did. Unfortunately, when it came to the rest of his game Belanger was so bad that it took away from the good he brought to the table. That being said, sixteen points from a guy who played top nine minutes for much of the season while seeing time on the second power play unit, is frankly not good enough. Look for Belanger to rebound next season with a strong year...be it in Edmonton or somewhere else.
Grade: D

http://www.ourhometown.ca/sports/RS0203.php

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