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All Burke's Moves

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Old
04-04-2012, 05:07 PM
  #76
LC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Are you guys still pretty happy about getting Franson + Lombardi(more specifically Lombardi's contract) for the 4th rounder?
Lombardi is awful, and Franson is decent but they don't play him regularly because they are idiots. He'll be a top 4 player on some team that plays their best players. I don't care about the 4th round pick at all.

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04-04-2012, 06:07 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Look at Kessel what happened with him
Look at Gardiner what happened with him
Look at Reimer (pre-concussion) what happened with him

Even Kadri is developing well he just hasn't been given a real shot. I love the whole "Detorit has the best development system and they have patients with their prospects" yet the Leafs have a promising player on the Marlies and all of a sudden he won't make a significant contribution in the future.

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Old
04-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Kessel was developed by the Bruins and was an NHL player before arriving here.

Gardiner is the only one.

Reimer had a great run last year but his weaknesses were exposed and even his last 10 games last year showed this. He is not a number 1 goalie and may not even be a reasonable back up solution moving forward.

Kadri has been mishandled period. You do not yo-yo your prospects.
*cough* Jason Spezza *cough*

2005/08/12 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Ottawa Senators to a one-year contract.
2004/09/16 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2004/04/02 Lower body injury, day-to-day.
2003/04/28 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2003/04/25 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2003/03/06 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/21 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/20 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/17 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/13 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2002/12/02 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2002/10/23 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2002/10/08 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).


Last edited by eyeball11: 04-04-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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Old
04-04-2012, 06:31 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Are you guys still pretty happy about getting Franson + Lombardi(more specifically Lombardi's contract) for the 4th rounder?
Thanks.

Lombardi's best games were already played before the deal.
I'll buy you a case of pucks if you can swing a deal to take him back.

Franson, has struggled.
Hopefully a full season with Carlyle and Farrish help his development.

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04-04-2012, 06:35 PM
  #80
Busher Jackson
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Originally Posted by S2S View Post
People can rag on him all they want, but that roster we had was dreadfully ugly. And the big thing now is, though we havent played better, we have a solid prospect pool. At that moment, we did not at all.

After 4 years if all Burke did was trade away UFA players at the deadline (and replaced them with UFA in the summer) for draft picks and choose players off the ISS scouting list the leafs would have a far better prospect pool.

Burke has a worse record than a monkey.

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04-04-2012, 06:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Kadri has been mishandled period. You do not yo-yo your prospects.
I get what you're saying.

My first point about Kadri is he isn't strong enough to play on the wing; 2nd point is he's still not smart enough to play on the big club.

For those occasions when he was called up he should have been played at centre. That's his position. He should have been put into a position where he could succeed, but he wasn't. He was put in a situation where he had to learn how to play on the wing, and how to play in all three zones. Kadri is still playing like he's in junior, a few good shifts, a few more average shifts, and a few bad shifts. He's prone to brain farts, doesn't use his teammates, doesn't see the ice well enough, and occasionally he still floats around. I've seen about 15 Marlie games this season and he still doesn't get it. He has some maturing to do.

He's a late bloomer. He's a centre and he doesn't appear to be "Carlyle" type player.

I'm guessing he's trade bait, part of a package.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:00 PM
  #82
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for all the good hes done hes has made enough bad moves to hold the team back

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:02 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
*cough* Jason Spezza *cough*

2005/08/12 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Ottawa Senators to a one-year contract.
2004/09/16 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2004/04/02 Lower body injury, day-to-day.
2003/04/28 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2003/04/25 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2003/03/06 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/21 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/20 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/17 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2003/02/13 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2002/12/02 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).
2002/10/23 Recalled from Binghamton (AHL).
2002/10/08 Assigned to Binghamton (AHL).

Yep they mishandled him.....it worked out for Spezza, will it work out for Kadri.....time will tell. I will tell you the difference between the two. Spezza did not have his coach and GM beaking him in the Media all the time.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:07 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busher Jackson View Post
After 4 years if all Burke did was trade away UFA players at the deadline (and replaced them with UFA in the summer) for draft picks and choose players off the ISS scouting list the leafs would have a far better prospect pool.

Burke has a worse record than a monkey.
Wouldn't one need to know who these players and picks were?

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:09 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Yep they mishandled him.....it worked out for Spezza, will it work out for Kadri.....time will tell. I will tell you the difference between the two. Spezza did not have his coach and GM beaking him in the Media all the time.
Do you remember what the knock on Spezza was? Secondly, why would I know what the knock repeatedly was unless his management "beaked to the media about it"?

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:43 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2S View Post
People can rag on him all they want, but that roster we had was dreadfully ugly. And the big thing now is, though we havent played better, we have a solid prospect pool. At that moment, we did not at all.
LOL

I skipped a couple of pages because some of the replies were just too ridiculous for me.

But, I wonder if anyone made up the point that Burke HAD THREE AND A HALF YEARS to build this team and DIDN'T. Most of the prospects are not his draft choices. He traded for them. Of the ones the Leaf have, I'd say the're only marginal. These aren't stars.

Gardiner was a Ducks pick. If Colborne is any good, he's a Bruins pick. I really don't see them as major pieces but they're decent. Frattin, Gardiner, Colborne and maybe Ashton might be the Leafs top prospects but really, you would think in 3.5 yrs, that Burke could build a good arsenal of prospects but it's really pathetic for the time frame he had.

EDIT: Ok, I'll even give you Kadri but the jury is out on him until he plays a full season or at least starts and gets the ice time.

And who is saying they're better?!? The Leafs seasons have been similar positions in the standings with the talent level only marginal better.

The team cannot play team defence to save their lives. The defence core itself is awful. They don't know how to cover or they're too slow to. Many of the players are overrated and overpaid.

When Lupul went down, they couldn't score anymore. They were getting outshot most games by a ratio of 2:1, it seemed. They were allowing from 35 to over 40 shots a game and were lucky to get 20 themselves!

And fans want to keep Burke?!?

I mean, good gawd, what does it take, man?!?

Decent article but without further evaluation, it is mostly just a list of moves which in itself illustrates the ineptitude of Burke but one has to keep in mind, the excuses and comments Burke has made throughout his tenure, his hypocrisy and refusal to really rebuild. This is probably MLSE's influence or control but that should concern fans even more. Instead, so many fans wear the rosy coloured glasses.

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Old
04-04-2012, 07:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Do you remember what the knock on Spezza was? Secondly, why would I know what the knock repeatedly was unless his management "beaked to the media about it"?
Everyone knew about Spezza as Cherry made sure of that.

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Old
04-04-2012, 08:04 PM
  #88
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The Sharks promote and demote prospects between the AHL and the NHL on regular basis as a strategy to develop them.

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04-04-2012, 08:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
Or - as this is a HF Board - you could look at the fact that when Burke took over, we were ranked 17th in organizational prospect depth, and this past fall we were ranked 8th - and when we add a potential top 5 and top 35 pick this June, I would expect that to climb further.

I'm sure it's "cooler" to think all is bleak, but I'd call that an improved prospect pool.
"cooler"?

i have supported burke since day 1, but it's over for me. the keepers of the faith all want to present the silver lining, but i just can't accept it this time around. there is no hope for this team and burke at this point. if you want to look at the standings and say to yourself "we are in 13th place in the East, but thank God we are 8th in the HF organizational prospect depth" then you clearly are a masochist. winning is what matters, and not fulfilling the HFBoards NHL 12 simulated seasons key to a successful manager mode. mark my word: Burke will be canned before he can fix this quagmire.

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Old
04-04-2012, 09:02 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2S View Post
People can rag on him all they want, but that roster we had was dreadfully ugly. And the big thing now is, though we havent played better, we have a solid prospect pool. At that moment, we did not at all.
Who is to say that our prospect pool would look any worse had we not done anything? No trading, just running with the same players and drafting whoever comes up.

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04-04-2012, 09:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Uncle Slick View Post
I get what you're saying.

My first point about Kadri is he isn't strong enough to play on the wing; 2nd point is he's still not smart enough to play on the big club.
Not sure how Kadri isn't "smart enough" to play on the big club. Every time he's put the big clubs jersey on he's put on a pretty good performance and he hasn't really had a bad game for the Leafs.

Quote:
He was put in a situation where he had to learn how to play on the wing, and how to play in all three zones.
I don't think it's that hard for a centre to move over to wing and I'm sure Kadri has done it a few times in his life. This isn't the first time he's laced up his skates and this isn't the first time he had to play wing. He's not a moron like you make him out to be and he understands how to play the game as he's shown it, every time he's played on the team.

Quote:
Kadri is still playing like he's in junior, a few good shifts, a few more average shifts, and a few bad shifts. He's prone to brain farts, doesn't use his teammates, doesn't see the ice well enough, and occasionally he still floats around. I've seen about 15 Marlie games this season and he still doesn't get it. He has some maturing to do.

He's a late bloomer. He's a centre and he doesn't appear to be "Carlyle" type player.

I'm guessing he's trade bait, part of a package.
Eakins has said that Kadri has developed further along in all three zones and he's put together some complete games. The game against Pittsburgh when he played on the Leafs is a prime example of him playing every shift, hitting, skating, and scoring. Let's not forget the show he put on the last called up he had.

He doesn't need to be a centre, he has the hands, the skating, and the ability to play wing. Not sure why you think he has to be stuck at centre. All Kadri needs to do is get his strength up and get stronger on the puck (like all people developing coming from junior have to, Kadri's normal height is what is taking it so long). Watch next year and I think you'll be biting your tongue when it comes to Nazem Kadri because he is definitely a Carlyle type player.

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Old
04-04-2012, 09:49 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky View Post
LOL

I skipped a couple of pages because some of the replies were just too ridiculous for me.

But, I wonder if anyone made up the point that Burke HAD THREE AND A HALF YEARS to build this team and DIDN'T. Most of the prospects are not his draft choices. He traded for them. Of the ones the Leaf have, I'd say the're only marginal. These aren't stars.

Gardiner was a Ducks pick. If Colborne is any good, he's a Bruins pick. I really don't see them as major pieces but they're decent. Frattin, Gardiner, Colborne and maybe Ashton might be the Leafs top prospects but really, you would think in 3.5 yrs, that Burke could build a good arsenal of prospects but it's really pathetic for the time frame he had.

EDIT: Ok, I'll even give you Kadri but the jury is out on him until he plays a full season or at least starts and gets the ice time.

And who is saying they're better?!? The Leafs seasons have been similar positions in the standings with the talent level only marginal better.

The team cannot play team defence to save their lives. The defence core itself is awful. They don't know how to cover or they're too slow to. Many of the players are overrated and overpaid.

When Lupul went down, they couldn't score anymore. They were getting outshot most games by a ratio of 2:1, it seemed. They were allowing from 35 to over 40 shots a game and were lucky to get 20 themselves!

And fans want to keep Burke?!?

I mean, good gawd, what does it take, man?!?

Decent article but without further evaluation, it is mostly just a list of moves which in itself illustrates the ineptitude of Burke but one has to keep in mind, the excuses and comments Burke has made throughout his tenure, his hypocrisy and refusal to really rebuild. This is probably MLSE's influence or control but that should concern fans even more. Instead, so many fans wear the rosy coloured glasses.
The Bruins had 4 self drafted players (all second rounders) amongst their regular playoff contributors last year.

Who cares where they come from?

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Old
04-04-2012, 09:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Everyone knew about Spezza as Cherry made sure of that.
You never heard anyone else discuss it?

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Old
04-04-2012, 10:38 PM
  #94
Busher Jackson
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Wouldn't one need to know who these players and picks were?
Reverse the trades of draft picks and use the ISS list. Assume the UFA's were traded at market value, we know which players were UFA.

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04-04-2012, 10:49 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
I can recall our prospect pool being players like Carlo C and Brad B, but is our prospect pool really that much different? I think the Frattins, the Kadris, and the Colbornes would kill to be NHL regulars. Are they better? No. Burke did nothing to our prospects. Did he draft in the top 5 recently? Poor. Burke is no better than JFJ.
Save your fingers. This board is blinded by the arrogant blowhard that is BB.

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