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What do the Leafs and their fans get out of the 'New NHL'?
I really don't see why each team can't have the rights to 2 players in their territory (as long as the player opts out of the draft)
Maybe that might influence teams to promote minor hockey in their cities.
I'm aware that there is no chance that will happen so why not lower the age for UFA status?
It's about the rights of players. Brad Richards didn't want to play in Toronto, he signed in NY, as was his right.
Do you really think many players want to sign in Toronto or Montreal knowing the media circus they'd be faced with?
I know of one media circus that's worse than Toronto and Montreal is in the NHL. The New York Yankees. I don't see them having trouble signing players because of the media circus.
First it was about making money. Then it was about icing a better team. Then it was about lowering ticket prices. Now it's about letting the players play where they want. The POOR, SAD, HOMESICK players. Honestly, you guys keep changing your arguments and they all suck.
You want the Leafs to be protected by policies so it won't make a difference when your management makes crap decisions. That's it. You want to be guaranteed the best players in the draft, and you want to be able to throw money at free agents you didn't draft. There must be some kind of reality distortion field up there in Toronto.
Also, the idea that players won't sign in Toronto because it's a "media circus" are laughable. They won't sign in Toronto because the Leafs are garbage.
Lol leaf fans.. Let's pretend for a second there wasn't a cap. Anyone here think for that same second MLSE or previous owners would spend like the Yankees or Sox.. Your management loves the cap, they get to hide behind it. As for Ontario players being drafted. I often here from the leafheads that the GTA is #1 with a bullet for producing the most talent surely the leafs picking top 10 yearly should net some of this said talent no?. Ohh right all your picks went to Boston
I really don't see why each team can't have the rights to 2 players in their territory (as long as the player opts out of the draft)
Maybe that might influence teams to promote minor hockey in their cities.
I'm aware that there is no chance that will happen so why not lower the age for UFA status?
It's about the rights of players. Brad Richards didn't want to play in Toronto, he signed in NY, as was his right.
Do you really think many players want to sign in Toronto or Montreal knowing the media circus they'd be faced with?
I don't get the media pressure thing tbh. It's not like the leafs are held to the same winning standard like the Yankees or RedSox or even the Canadiens for that matter.. To me it's just another excuse management hides behind, "can't bring in big talent because they are scared of media" or, and I love this one "its too hard to compete, because when the Ontario kids come to Toronto and play they amp up their game vs us" that last quote is not really along the lines of the first but it's a favourite lol
really think the op is delusional. first off, lets remember that the nhl is a business. the owners of the leafs were probably thrilled when the cap era started because they'd be able to limit their costs and make money hand over fist.
the cap is here to stay, and with good management, and solid scouting, the leafs would be in a much better place right now. as for territorial rights for players that are draft eligble, that thinking is archaic; not the draft system. you would honestly think that since the leafs have sucked for so long that they would be able to reap the rewards of having high quality draft choices, but their management has either drafted a crappy player or traded it away.
The Leafs have suffered more than anyone else in the new NHL. If there wasn't a cap how can anyone suggest that they would not have the pick of the best free agents each year? Think Yankees here.
The fans would be putting a lot of pressure on MLSE to spend, and increased spending would make some difference. I can't see such a team missing the playoffs seven years in a row for example.
The ability to spend your way out of trouble made the Leafs teams of the 1990's as competitive as they were.
don't get the media pressure thing tbh. It's not like the leafs are held to the same winning standard like the Yankees or RedSox or even the Canadiens for that matter. To me it's just another excuse management hides behind, "can't bring in big talent because they are scared of media" or, and I love this one "its too hard to compete, because when the Ontario kids come to Toronto and play they amp up their game vs us" that last quote is not really along the lines of the first but it's a favourite lol
We are. I bet you think people are because its cool.
The Leafs have suffered more than anyone else in the new NHL. If there wasn't a cap how can anyone suggest that they would not have the pick of the best free agents each year? Think Yankees here.
The fans would be putting a lot of pressure on MLSE to spend, and increased spending would make some difference. I can't see such a team missing the playoffs seven years in a row for example.
The ability to spend your way out of trouble made the Leafs teams of the 1990's as competitive as they were.
Right, I don't think anyone would make an argument against that. The point is that being able to spend your way out of trouble was damaging the league.
I don't get the media pressure thing tbh. It's not like the leafs are held to the same winning standard like the Yankees or RedSox or even the Canadiens for that matter.. To me it's just another excuse management hides behind, "can't bring in big talent because they are scared of media" or, and I love this one "its too hard to compete, because when the Ontario kids come to Toronto and play they amp up their game vs us" that last quote is not really along the lines of the first but it's a favourite lol
It's not "too hard to compete" but local players do tend to amp up their game when they play Toronto. They put family and friends' butts in the seats and show up to play like it's a playoff game. As for your "Toronto hides behind the cap" remark, it's way out in left field also. Toronto spends to the cap and dumps 1-way contracts in the AHL just so that they could spend more. How is that hiding behind the cap?
Not going to go through all the pages in this thread, but has anyone pointed out that when the Leafs tried to sign Tavares as mentioned by the OP, it was to play for the Marlies and skip his last year of junior hockey. He'd have gone back into the draft, and the move would have benefited the Marlies at the gate, and the old-for-his-draft-year Tavares in his development (ostensibly). The only on-ice benefit the Leafs could have gotten would be whatever their prospects get out of playing and practicing with Tavares.
Now, we know that Fehr Time would rather have Tavares and Stamkos be soccer-like mercenaries, but nobody tried to make that happen.
Not sure I get the "welfare" jab as it related to Tavares? He went to an almost 40 year old franchise in a traditional hockey market. The OP makes it sound as if he and Stamkos were plucked out of the Leafs system in some expansion draft kind of scenario and sent to play for other teams.
Not sure I get the "welfare" jab as it related to Tavares? He went to an almost 40 year old franchise in a traditional hockey market. The OP makes it sound as if he and Stamkos were plucked out of the Leafs system in some expansion draft kind of scenario and sent to play for other teams.
Also, NYI doesn't get anything from revenue sharing.
The Leafs have 5 home grown players on their 25 man roster. Find one Playoff team with less than that hell find many of them with less than 10!!
My team has 17 total home grown players. Scouting and Player development are important!!!!!! Scouting is not just for drafting proposes either but finding young players that fit into your system to aquire in a trade. Having a development system that is teaching and coaching the same system as the big club.
As I said, Brian Burke alone probably makes more than the entire Predators hockey operations staff, or close to it.
Burke makes $3 million/year (next highest GM gets paid $1.2 million) and has three former GMs working under him, many of them making GM-money. MLSE has never turned down a single request made by Burke to sign a player, to hire staff, to improve the team.
But you know, clearly the team is not trying to improve. Clearly not only is management to blame for the lack of success, but the fans are to blame because we support the team. You'd would a think a Nashville fan would be a little more careful treading those waters, given that their lack of support almost resulted in the Preds leaving to Hamilton.
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Originally Posted by Gnashville
So did Hockey, It's gone now and not coming back. It's a pipe dream in any fans mind. Add to that some players fail when drafted by the hometown team and then succeed later when moving on. The Leafs could also trade those hometown players they draft right, or are they stuck playing for them in a servitude manner?? They traded 2 1st round picks for a player not from Ontario why should they be able to correct that mistake by using some hometown draft advantage. They could have not made that deal and drafted Seguin or Hall (without Kessel that season they could have finshed behind Edmonton). They would have gotten both in you fantsy world!!!!
Bringing up the Kessel trade... original.
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Originally Posted by AP
This word "welfare" is being used around way too much with regards to revenue sharing. Its not really welfare if its money being used around in the same private sector in the same league. Now if the govenment is giving money to a private entity or private citizen then that is where the word welfare can be used.
But do keep in mind that there was something called the Canadian Assistance Plan. You know where America dollars from American teams went to helping teams up north in trouble when the Loonie was below 70 cents to the America Dollar? Did you have a problem with this kind of system that one could call a welfare kind of one as well or is there a double standard you have in mind over which teams should be entitled to such revenue?
The CAP helped small market Canadian franchises; Toronto and Montreal didn't qualify. Instead, the Leafs had to cut down on player costs and raise ticket prices to merely breakeven.
As well, IIRC, the total amount of money distributed by the CAP annually was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10 million. The Panthers alone received $14 million in revenue sharing last year.
As I said, Brian Burke alone probably makes more than the entire Predators hockey operations staff, or close to it.
Burke makes $3 million/year (next highest GM gets paid $1.2 million) and has three former GMs working under him, many of them making GM-money. MLSE has never turned down a single request made by Burke to sign a player, to hire staff, to improve the team.
But you know, clearly the team is not trying to improve. Clearly not only is management to blame for the lack of success, but the fans are to blame because we support the team. You'd would a think a Nashville fan would be a little more careful treading those waters, given that their lack of support almost resulted in the Preds leaving to Hamilton.
Bringing up the Kessel trade... original.
The CAP helped small market Canadian franchises; Toronto and Montreal didn't qualify. Instead, the Leafs had to cut down on player costs and raise ticket prices to merely breakeven.
As well, IIRC, the total amount of money distributed by the CAP annually was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10 million. The Panthers alone received $14 million in revenue sharing last year.
You seem to really think that throwing money at a problem is the solution. The issue is that your management does not know how to build a successful team.
You seem to really think that throwing money at a problem is the solution. The issue is that your management does not know how to build a successful team.
Oh I'm sorry, your right, the franchise should spend less. Who needs 20 scouts, when you only truly, really, need 1?
Oh I'm sorry, your right, the franchise should spend less. Who needs 20 scouts, when you only truly, really, need 1?
Where did I say anything about less scouts? I'm just saying that you seem to think that paying Brian Burke a crapload of money somehow means something. All it means is that MLSE paid a lot of money to a guy that has thus far been unsuccessful in building a team.
Where did I say anything about less scouts? I'm just saying that you seem to think that paying Brian Burke a crapload of money somehow means something. All it means is that MLSE paid a lot of money to a guy that has thus far been unsuccessful in building a team.
Where did I say that spending money will solve all problems?
You clearly said that the salaries of the management staff were proof that the management staff is dedicated to building the team.
No, I said the salaries of the management staff is proof that ownership is dedicated to building the team. One just needs to look at Brian Burke in the past few months to see how much he wants to win.
No, I said the salaries of the management staff is proof that ownership is dedicated to building the team. One just needs to look at Brian Burke in the past few months to see how much he wants to win.
If they were dedicated and had any kind of understanding of hockey they'd have fired Burke already. The Leafs are no closer to icing a good team than they were 3 years ago.
Wanting to win is meaningless.
The Bruins, Penguins, Blackhawks, Red Wings, Ducks (under Burke), and 'Canes have all put together Cup wins under the new system, so I fail to understand how the system is responsible for the woes of the Leafs.
If they were dedicated and had any kind of understanding of hockey they'd have fired Burke already. The Leafs are no closer to icing a good team than they were 3 years ago.
Wanting to win is meaningless.
That is your opinion. Many of us would like to give Burke another off-season, or more, to continue to build this team.
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The Bruins, Penguins, Blackhawks, Red Wings, Ducks (under Burke), and 'Canes have all put together Cup wins under the new system, so I fail to understand how the system is responsible for the woes of the Leafs.
I've never argued the Leafs perils are the result of the system, Fehr Time did.
The CAP helped small market Canadian franchises; Toronto and Montreal didn't qualify. Instead, the Leafs had to cut down on player costs and raise ticket prices to merely breakeven.
As well, IIRC, the total amount of money distributed by the CAP annually was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10 million. The Panthers alone received $14 million in revenue sharing last year.
Your looking at this from the view of fan, the NHL/players generally don't care about the fans of any specific team, they care about the fan in the sense they will do what it takes to get the most of their money.
The cap benefited the leafs (the owners of the organization, not the fans who dont matter) because it kept a lid on their player costs while achieving similar results. When fans will pay crazy prizes for a crappy team of course the owners love they don't have to spend 100mill+ on players. If the leafs could buy a cup (which even when they had the option they still sucked at it) and if many teams folded that would mean less, not more, money for the owners. Most owners don't want a luxury tax option (the ones that would are the ones that care about winning more than money which isn't many) because that means the fans of big markets can put pressure on their team to spend more money. In the Leafs case this means more money spent but as history has shown not a much better chance at winning the cup.
The current system benefits the players because more teams = more games played = more players in the league = more money for the players. The current CBA also reduced the UFA age. So in the new system the players got more freedom of choice and they also as a whole got more money. Sure people like Crosby could command more than the league max if they wanted, but for the 99% of the league that isn't a star player they now make more money. And more players are making money too.
So as a whole the current system has benefited the only two parties that really matter - the owners and the players. As long as the fans are willing to throw their money at the league they aren't really even considered.
If you don't like that the leafs suck/can't be given all the good players then show the league you anger by not watching the games/buyings tickets/buying merchandise. If the AAC starts having empty seats and they don't sell any merch then maybe things will change....... but until that happens it won't.
but local players do tend to amp up their game when they play Toronto. They put family and friends' butts in the seats and show up to play like it's a playoff game. As for your "Toronto hides behind the cap" remark, it's way out in left field also. Toronto spends to the cap and dumps 1-way contracts in the AHL just so that they could spend more. How is that hiding behind the cap? 
