I thought it was purely financial but a former NHL player told me today that it was somehow related to the NHL pension scandal, something about the then owner, Mr. Cousins, being bullied into the move by the NHL Board of Governors because he knew something about the pension shenanigans.
Convoluted, I know, but this was how it was told to me. Anyone know anything on this matter?
The logical answer would be that owner Tom Cousins was bleeding money on his construction projects, and old the team for a then record $16 million to help cover his debts. But, I listened to an interview last year during the Thrashers move, and the player interviewed (former ATL Flame) said something similar. I.E. it was either get involved in the scandal of GTFO. I can't remember the player, the interviewer, or the radio station, but the gist was that Cousins sold the team because he didn't want to rob the players. I'll do some snooping and see what I can find.
Dan Bouchard, a former Flames player who retained his home in Atlanta and moved back here after his career was over, recently revealed in an interview on Canada's TSN Radio (http://www.tsn.ca/window/podcastcent...ard_051611.mp3) that the sale of the Flames came as a complete surprise, and only came about because the other owners wanted Flames' majority owner Tom Cousins out of the league (Flames Goalie Dan Bouchard Again Attacks Atlanta Thrashers Ownership). Why? Because he was causing trouble for them. He noticed that something didn't look right with the finances, and had Equifax look over the books. It was discovered that the league was pilfering from the players' pension funds (a scandal that MANY years later resulted in the first executive director of the NHL Players Association Alan Eagleson being sent to jail and kicked out of the Hockey Hall Of Fame). The other owners didn't want to hear about it, and Cousins wanted no part of it. Since he refused to be involved in it, and the other owners wanted him out before he got everyone in trouble, he sold the team and the league approved the sale and relocation as fast as they could. Lack of attendance or "fan support" had absolutely ZERO to do with it.
I'm still having trouble finding the actual interview.
Last edited by TasteofFlames: 04-04-2012 at 10:07 PM.
The logical answer would be that owner Tom Cousins was bleeding money on his construction projects, and old the team for a then record $16 million to help cover his debts. But, I listened to an interview last year during the Thrashers move, and the player interviewed (former ATL Flame) said something similar. I.E. it was either get involved in the scandal of GTFO. I can't remember the player, the interviewer, or the radio station, but the gist was that Cousins sold the team because he didn't want to rob the players. I'll do some snooping and see what I can find.
I'm still having trouble finding the actual interview.
Tasteoff- Thanks for that and, yes, it was Bouchard I spoke to yesterday for an article I'm writing on him. We were just talking generic Atlanta material and then he mentioned that - something I was completely unaware of.
Wow. I've never heard this angle on the Flames before.
If true, this would seem to be a major story not just for the NHL, but pro sports in general...
That's what kind of shocked me-- that it never really "came out."
He told me his then-agent noticed something irregular and brought it to his attention. Bouchard then brought it to Cousins' attention while playing golf in the offseason.
His agent is in the Boston area (where I live) and I'm trying to track him down for additional info.
The Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary because the owner was losing money hand over fist in Atlanta, and the highest bids from prospective owners came from two groups who wanted to move the team to Calgary. This article claims Cousins' ownership group had lost $1.7 million in '78-'79 and $2.8 million in '79-'80. That doesn't sound like a lot now but it was a lot then.
Actor Glenn Ford offered around $8 million to buy the team and keep it in Atlanta while the Seaman brothers (Byron, Donald and Doc) offered $14 million and were intent on moving the team to Calgary. In the end Nelson Skalbania (former co-owner of the Oilers and Indianapolis Racers; the man who signed Wayne Gretzky to his first pro contract and sold it to the Oilers for a pittance) offered $16 million, with the intent to move the team to Calgary, to which Cousins accepted. Skalbania almost immediately sold a portion of the team to Byron and Doc Seaman, Ralph Scurfield, Normie Kwong, Norm Green and Harley Hotchkiss. The rest of the owners didn't want to do ongoing business with Skalbania (who had a reputation as a bit of a shyster) and bought out Skalbania's share soon after.
I've read posts from many people here asserting that Cousins was losing money on his real estate developments and that's what precipitated the sale but every contemporary report of the time said the team itself was bleeding money. I am wont to believe in conspiracy theories about Cousins's real estate misadventures and supposed discovery of improprieties between the NHL Board of Governors (to which Cousins belonged anyway!) and the NHLPA executive (read: Alan Eagleson) being the driving factors in his decision to sell the team. I find it far more likely the team was losing money.
The Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary because the owner was losing money hand over fist in Atlanta, and the highest bids from prospective owners came from two groups who wanted to move the team to Calgary. This article claims Cousins' ownership group had lost $1.7 million in '78-'79 and $2.8 million in '79-'80. That doesn't sound like a lot now but it was a lot then.
Actor Glenn Ford offered around $8 million to buy the team and keep it in Atlanta while the Seaman brothers (Byron, Donald and Doc) offered $14 million and were intent on moving the team to Calgary. In the end Nelson Skalbania (former co-owner of the Oilers and Indianapolis Racers; the man who signed Wayne Gretzky to his first pro contract and sold it to the Oilers for a pittance) offered $16 million, with the intent to move the team to Calgary, to which Cousins accepted. Skalbania almost immediately sold a portion of the team to Byron and Doc Seaman, Ralph Scurfield, Normie Kwong, Norm Green and Harley Hotchkiss. The rest of the owners didn't want to do ongoing business with Skalbania (who had a reputation as a bit of a shyster) and bought out Skalbania's share soon after.
I've read posts from many people here asserting that Cousins was losing money on his real estate developments and that's what precipitated the sale but every contemporary report of the time said the team itself was bleeding money. I am wont to believe in conspiracy theories about Cousins's real estate misadventures and supposed discovery of improprieties between the NHL Board of Governors (to which Cousins belonged anyway!) and the NHLPA executive (read: Alan Eagleson) being the driving factors in his decision to sell the team. I find it far more likely the team was losing money.
LOL wow I'm snooping that old newspaper scan and the difference in prices are just amazing... 300 dollars a month to rent a 3 bedroom town home with utilities and furnished!
LOL wow I'm snooping that old newspaper scan and the difference in prices are just amazing... 300 dollars a month to rent a 3 bedroom town home with utilities and furnished!
*******. I live in Vancouver and $300 wouldn't get you a closet in your parents' basement.
Very interesting. Id heard this story myself back in the early 80's but sort of wrote it off as there was no way to verify it. When the suit against the league was finally launched, it never came up, and based on the Yeomans work Carl Brewer had undertaken in trying to turn over every stone from about 80-82 onward, where was Bouchard with this information back then, providing a fresh & fully smoking gun?. Still playing. Good reason to keep stum or no?.
Me too! I'm paying 1500/month for a 2 bedroom suite at knight and 57th.
Outrageous!. A fixer upper Vancouver Special Cracker Shack averaging 1.4M on the east side, even more on the west; 500K for a 400 sq ft condo. Just insane, and of course completely OT but ya, when we scan these old clips or even contemporary reports from around the NHL & catch glimpses of stuff like that sure does make you wanna cry....
Tracked down another Flame for comment and found out that the owner, Cousins, asked his players to give back 10% of their salary so the team could remain in Atlanta. They agreed to the request.
The team bolts to Calgary and their 10% was never returned. The team's Brad Marsh was dating Cousins's daughter at the time and I guess they ganged up on him to no avail.
Full story on Bouchard is now up,, For the record, I asked the other former Flames quoted in the article if they ever heard of Mr. Bouchard's version and none of them did.
Outrageous!. A fixer upper Vancouver Special Cracker Shack averaging 1.4M on the east side, even more on the west; 500K for a 400 sq ft condo. Just insane, and of course completely OT but ya, when we scan these old clips or even contemporary reports from around the NHL & catch glimpses of stuff like that sure does make you wanna cry....
Funny story. I live in London with my Londoner wife and we had an inkling to move to Vancouver. I've been a couple times and it was beautiful, and it sounded in theory like a good idea. Culturally somewhere between the US and the UK, with a more 'British' commitment to public services, but with NHL hockey and so on. Close to my parents in San Francisco, but not too close. Plus I have some family there (my uncle in Boston married a BC girl) who could provide some support if we moved there. She wasn't keen on moving to San Francisco and having my mom in her face, and neither of us were too keen on six feet of snow in the winter.
Then we looked at the real estate prices. I never thought I'd see a place that would make San Francisco and London, two of the most expensive places in the world, seem like a bargain. Christ, even in the Fraser Valley it was eye-wateringly expensive.
To get back on topic, here's my theory on the Flames:
Poor crowds and construction debt made Cousins sell, but the NHL were skeptical about allowing relocation. So he whispers to them that he'll blow the door on the pension fund, and they decide to reconsider.
