I'd keep Oduya, but wouldn't overpay. I wouldn't just pay because we can. If we trade Monty or he will miss the most of the season, Oduya will stay.
If we package Olsen with Crawford for a better #1, Johnny will stay.
Olsen might be ready for a full-time #6 role on this team (ie. sheltered minutes). If Montador's injury continues to be problematic and/or he plays worse than he did this year, Olsen gets moved up to the #5 role and needs to be a major contributer. Now, when one injury happens along the way Olsen is playing in the top 4 and the Hawks have the makings of a poor defense.
I see no problem with signing Oduya and trading Hjalmarsson or Montador after next season. With Olsen as the #7 defenseman he will get time with injuries the Hawks can lessen the regular season minutes of Keith and Seabrook.
What the fascination is with having 3-4 rookies on the Hawks every year is foreign to me.
I don't understand why that has to be the case. Olsen, while has his gaffes, is ready for the NHL. Why stick him in Rockford if he's ready for a bottom-pairing role right now?
The only reason we should overpay Oduya to the tune of 4+ mil is if we can trade Montador. Knowing that he had a season-ending concussion and will be on only his 2nd year of his 4 year contract, it's not going to happen.
Other than that, trading Hjalmarsson would be stupid unless Olsen is ready to replace him. Bowman would be selling low if he traded Leddy and Keith/Seabrook aren't going anywhere.
And beyond that, Oduya is going to want more than a 1 or 2 year contract. I'm thinking (and his agent would be smart to think) he's shooting for a 4 or 5 year deal for 3.5+ mil. Not only will we be spending 22+ mil on 6 defensemen, but we'll be essentially placing a block on any prospect to break through our line-up for the next 3+ years. That's NOT good asset management.
Sorry, I liked Oduya and I would do that trade again if given the chance but it would just be a boneheaded move going forward.
Hawks should be working to build a Cup Champion for next year. If you don't re-sign Oduya and roll with your defense then we're an injury away from a disastrous bottom pairing and will need to make another trade again, spending more assets at the deadline.
Hawks should be working to build a Cup Champion for next year. If you don't re-sign Oduya and roll with your defense then we're an injury away from a disastrous bottom pairing and will need to make another trade again, spending more assets at the deadline.
Right. We can't keep trading 2nd and 3rd round picks for rentals. Eventually we won't have any assets to make that move and we'll be stuck with a disaster.
What the fascination is with having 3-4 rookies on the Hawks every year is foreign to me.
they all need to get NHL experience
they are better than the UFAs available for us (Jayes > Bruno for example)
they are cheap depth that may contribute
they all need to get NHL experience
they are better than the UFAs available for us (Jayes > Bruno for example)
they are cheap depth that may contribute
The bolded is questionable and dependent on each prospect.
Olsen is not better than Oduya.
Salak and Hutton are not better than Crawford.
Prospects do not need NHL time. They should earn it.
I have no problem playing a prospect over an established NHL player, when that prospect has earned the right to that position. I don't see the need to give prospects positions on the Hawks team in the hopes they turn into top 6 forwards, and top 4 defensemen.
Hayes in my mind needs to win a spot on the Hawks bottom 6. Stan should not gift him a roster spot.
If Stan signs Oduya, perhaps there isn't money to find a UFA bottom 6 forward and Hayes comes into camp only needing to not lose it.
I don't see why people are so concerned that a spot needs to be kept open for Olsen so that Oduya needs to go. Oduya is better than Olsen right now AINEC. With Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook we have the horses to go make another deep playoff run next year. Hossa is 33 right now and I doubt when he ages out of being great that a prospect is going to replace him so easily (Not slighting our prospects, Hossa is just a great player). Not saying completely sacrifice the future (trade everyone and every pick for marginal veterans!) but the number one goal should be to win next year.
If Olsen plays too well to stay out of the lineup next year and Montador is healthy/effective that is a GOOD PROBLEM to have. In this case scenario, all 7 Defensemen would be tradable (with Hjalmarsson, Montador, or Oduya being the most likely to get moved) meaning we can acquire assets for them.
Right now with Leddy and Olsen graduating to NHL status, our top close to NHL ready prospects are at the forward ranks. In addition due to the Hawks having 4 bonafide first line players they are going to have 2 dangerous scoring lines. Hence, just like the past four years have shown, the Hawks will have no problem preventing goals. Getting Defensive help is much more important for this team. I would rather not see 40+ games of Leddy-Hjalmarsson on the 2nd pair and Olsen-Lepisto on the 3rd pair (say Montador is hurt again but really anyone can get hurt, how often does a team have the same 6 Defensemen play all 82 games?) If we don't use our 6 million in cap space even though we don't have to worry about re-signing any core pieces for a while then that is in my mind disrespectful to guys like Hossa and Sharp who signed on to be competitive every year and are the kind of players that can help a team win.
The bolded is questionable and dependent on each prospect.
Olsen is not better than Oduya.
Salak and Hutton are not better than Crawford.
Prospects do not need NHL time. They should earn it.
I have no problem playing a prospect over an established NHL player, when that prospect has earned the right to that position. I don't see the need to give prospects positions on the Hawks team in the hopes they turn into top 6 forwards, and top 4 defensemen.
Hayes in my mind needs to win a spot on the Hawks bottom 6. Stan should not gift him a roster spot.
If Stan signs Oduya, perhaps there isn't money to find a UFA bottom 6 forward and Hayes comes into camp only needing to not lose it.
Even if Oduya gets over 4 million, there's still 2 million in cap space. Plenty of money for any bottom six Free Agent.
given his age, I doubt we will get that much better. Just because you can pay him, you don't do it. We have Olsen waiting, Johns developing and there will be guys nobody talks about. I start to think that 4 million for 3 years is really too much
I stand by my original thoughts that he should get a 3M-3.25M max offer from the Hawks for 2 or 3 years, take it or leave it. Even that deal scares me with his age, but he's not worth more. If some team wants to give him more, let them. I loved Hejda last offseason but he got way overpaid so you had to let Colorado have him.
given his age, I doubt we will get that much better. Just because you can pay him, you don't do it. We have Olsen waiting, Johns developing and there will be guys nobody talks about. I start to think that 4 million for 3 years is really too much
Sure looks like it. We haven't had a significant acquisition since Hossa. Think about that, we're talking about July 2009, about 3 years ago. And we subtracted Campbell along the way.
Sure looks like it. We haven't had a significant acquisition since Hossa. Think about that, we're talking about July 2009, about 3 years ago.
Thank you cap hell. Why wouldn't we pay Oduya if we can? I see no reason to leave his spot open just so NCAA and AHL players can battle for a spot they haven't earned.
Thank you cap hell. Why wouldn't we pay Oduya if we can? I see no reason to leave his spot open just so NCAA and AHL players can battle for a spot they haven't earned.
The play would have to be someone better at D or top 6. If not, then yeah, get Oduya.
Sure looks like it. We haven't had a significant acquisition since Hossa. Think about that, we're talking about July 2009, about 3 years ago. And we subtracted Campbell along the way.
I don't see why people are so concerned that a spot needs to be kept open for Olsen so that Oduya needs to go. Oduya is better than Olsen right now AINEC. With Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook we have the horses to go make another deep playoff run next year. Hossa is 33 right now and I doubt when he ages out of being great that a prospect is going to replace him so easily (Not slighting our prospects, Hossa is just a great player). Not saying completely sacrifice the future (trade everyone and every pick for marginal veterans!) but the number one goal should be to win next year.
If Olsen plays too well to stay out of the lineup next year and Montador is healthy/effective that is a GOOD PROBLEM to have. In this case scenario, all 7 Defensemen would be tradable (with Hjalmarsson, Montador, or Oduya being the most likely to get moved) meaning we can acquire assets for them.
Right now with Leddy and Olsen graduating to NHL status, our top close to NHL ready prospects are at the forward ranks. In addition due to the Hawks having 4 bonafide first line players they are going to have 2 dangerous scoring lines. Hence, just like the past four years have shown, the Hawks will have no problem preventing goals. Getting Defensive help is much more important for this team. I would rather not see 40+ games of Leddy-Hjalmarsson on the 2nd pair and Olsen-Lepisto on the 3rd pair (say Montador is hurt again but really anyone can get hurt, how often does a team have the same 6 Defensemen play all 82 games?) If we don't use our 6 million in cap space even though we don't have to worry about re-signing any core pieces for a while then that is in my mind disrespectful to guys like Hossa and Sharp who signed on to be competitive every year and are the kind of players that can help a team win.
Ya know, I actually do agree with you... but the way I see it is that Bowman won't want to shell out the money and term for Oduya if Olsen plays at the level he has or improves over the next year or two. Oduya isn't going to sign for 3.5 mil for 1 or 2 years, which would be great. He's going to want 4 mil and a 4-5 year deal. Yes, Montador/Hammer could be traded but I don't see either happening this off-season. Maybe Monty after next season, but he's about as good as a 3rd/2nd pairing defenseman tweener as you'll find. I think we signed Monty with the intention of playing him for 3 of the 4 years of his contract.
So to me, it's more like... Olsen is left off the roster for the next 2 or 3 years when he would obviously benefit more from seeing regular NHL ice time under Quenneville.
I'd love to see Oduya re-signed (to a reasonable contract) but I just don't see it. I think the silver lining to this is that with Montador's 2 concussions, we might need to have someone fill his spot if he's not ready to play or ever gets injured again.
I don't necessarily agree with that line of thought... I'd love to see Oduya here over Olsen for at least next year. I just don't see Bowman/Quenneville going for that.
Oduya does seem to have taken some steps back since the Keith suspension. It's starting to look eerily similar to the Campoli addition last year. Great at first, but then it cools off quickly.
