I think phaneufs physicality and offense justifies his case as a first pairing defenseman.
I would say so also, but I don't think he should be playing 25 mins a night, chop off 3-4 mins and you'll see a fresher Phaneuf, who could hopefully play with more consistency.
No, and phaneufs stats prove it. Despite playing the toughest competition, he has respectable defensive numbers. His IQ isnt even that bad, it just gets exposed since he plays elite talent. One mistake and its in the back of the net (at least with our goaltending).
Make a list of other teams #2 d-men you would take over phaneuf.
11 goals, 32 assists, 43 points, 7 PPG - 12th in scoring for defenseman
212 hits, 127 blocks, 200 shots, 25:19 TOI, 4 fights - 7th in hits for defenseman
The guy is a star player in the league, almost every statistical category he is in the top-20 for defenseman. So, he can't carry a team, there are few players in the league that can. Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul, Grabovski and Gardiner are the few bright spots on the team.
Phaneuf deserves some of the blame for the collapse of the leafs this season.
Also Burke and a few other players.
With Carlyle struggling to get the leafs winning, I think blaming Wilson for the collapse is a much more difficult argument to make.
Thats why I was never on the fire wilson bandwagon. Everyone always thinks that if you fire someone, things will get better.
Its not like that. If you REPLACE the guy with someone BETTER, then things will get better. Habs fired Martin, and got cunneyworth... Did things get any better? No, martin was a good coach and they replaced him with some nobody. In our situation, I personally think Carlyle is a better coach, so that transaction actually made sense.
This is also why the "take the C off phaneuf" arguments are stupid. There is no one in the system atm that can do a better job as captain than him. So why take it off him? Just cuz?
It's a pretty accurate article for a Toronto sports one.
Leaf fans just can't accept the truth.
Except for this part of the article:
"After a promising first half to this season, the Leafs went into a slide so horrific that no one could have imagined it."
I predicted their collapse and missing the playoffs before the season even started.
The columnist is portraying it as some sort of shock.
Leaf fans expect too much out of Phaneuf. He's a good defenseman and probably a #1 on a lot of teams in the league.
I can't name a single defenseman that can carry his team into the playoffs. It's just not possible. Most of the criticism is just over the top.
We need a guy like Phaneuf who has that edge in his game. He has shut down the likes of Malkin, Tavares, Stamkos this season. He's just a bit inconsistent, but it's not like our team is any better.
Leaf fans expect too much out of Phaneuf. He's a good defenseman and probably a #1 on a lot of teams in the league.
I can't name a single defenseman that can carry his team into the playoffs. It's just not possible. Most of the criticism is just over the top.
We need a guy like Phaneuf who has that edge in his game. He has shut down the likes of Malkin, Tavares, Stamkos this season. He's just a bit inconsistent, but it's not like our team is any better.
He'll get better as the team gets better.
He would not be #1 on any team that I can think of. He's been rated as overrated by his peers, also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStBullies
A lot of you seem to miss the fact that:
Great Player =/= Great Captain
Saying Dion is a horrible captain, because he is supposedly bad at defence is one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life.
Heck, I'd be fine with Brown as captain.
It's about leadership, not points. I'm damn sure none of you are in the room, so your speculation means absolutely nothing.
As mentioned above, this is also a fact:
Great Team =/= Great Captain
A captain does not make trades and assemble the lineup. They work with what they have. You can't fault a single person for the collapse of a team.
Another fan who is dead wrong.
Phaneuf has some skills but he is overrated as far as those skills go. He's also a very lazy, uninterested player. Too often, he just stands around and lets his team mates do all the work. He stands around and lets his partner go into the corner, chasing guys down. He pushes and punches smaller players. He's disliked by his peers for a reason.
If you think he's going to develop into a top dman for the Leafs, you're seriously delusional, sorry to say.
The Leafs would be better off freeing that 6.5 million/season on a genuine talent. Would another team take him at that contract? If he is so highly thought of, then they should trade him immediately.
Was there an issue of leadership in that room?? Absolutely.
Will there be tough, but justifiable questions asked of Dion Phaneuf in the off-season?? 100%.
But too pin this all on Dion is a bit ridiculous.
I've been as upset and disappointed as anyone with his play, but leadership doesn't fall to anyone single player, similarly to the way goalscoring is never left to one single player.
It's wrong to single out Dion when questions arise of leadership - the fact surely remains, that Dion needs help in that room.
Leaf fans expect too much out of Phaneuf. He's a good defenseman and probably a #1 on a lot of teams in the league.
I can't name a single defenseman that can carry his team into the playoffs. It's just not possible. Most of the criticism is just over the top.
We need a guy like Phaneuf who has that edge in his game. He has shut down the likes of Malkin, Tavares, Stamkos this season. He's just a bit inconsistent, but it's not like our team is any better.
He'll get better as the team gets better.
Phaneuf deserves everything that he's getting.
If you're going to score between 17-20 goals, approx 60 points, 3 years in a row on an entry level contract, you better DAMN WELL keep it up once you're paid the big bucks.
And Dion's paid the very very very very big bucks.
Calgary figured out what they had. A guy who either
a) had a lucky start, and people figured him out
b) played for the big contract, then stopped putting in so much effort
either way, it adds up to the same thing. A DRAMATICALLY overpaid player that can't be traded for anything other than some scraps. And that's what we gave them. Scraps. Because that's all he was worth.
I'm not saying Phaneuf is a BAD player per say. I'm just saying that it's one of the worse results/cap hit ratios in the entire league.
I woudln't say that I want any of those scraps back that we lost for Phaneuf...
I'm just saying none of them would currently be under contract anymore...
Phanuef is not a #1D. He can be downright awful defensively.
He was playing like one for the first ~15 game of the year, but his play dropped off precisely when Wilson told the world that Phaneuf was the best dman in the league. It's retarded because that's exactly what happened, weirdly enough.
Bottom line is he's below average defensively most of the time, and until he dramatically improves that he's realistically a good #3D.
Why aren't the Islanders and the Canadiens in the playoffs?
I can answer for the Habs.
#1 in Man games lost in the league, by a fair margin.
Our captain, Brian Gionta, played only 31 games.
Gauthier did quite a few boneheaded moves with the defense, because he was certain Markov would come back for the beginning of the season. Then he panicked and we ended with Campoli and Kaberle (actually, Kaberle didn't play too bad for the Habs).
Martin was fired and Cunneyworth, despite his best efforts, isn't yet a solid NHL coach like Martin is.
A mix of injuries and bad management created the mess the Habs are in right now. I think it's only temporary, though. Molson seems to have a lot more desire to fix the problems than MLSE.
Can someone tell/show me the smartest defensive play the best hard work or intuitive play he has made this year, to date?
I'd love to see the very best defensive play of our highest paid, "1#", but most importantly, captain defenceman.
Except on D, it's never ONE play. Even yesterday, he stick lifted Stamkos's stick when he was in pretty much all alone. The defensive plays are never noticed but the blunders are.
__________________ Shoot me a PM with your concerns.
Phaneuf get too many minutes and money for his skillset. He is also the key part of one of the worst PK units for several years now. He has been exposed as a me first player who has a mediocre hockey sense.
Phaneuf deserves everything that he's getting.
If you're going to score between 17-20 goals, approx 60 points, 3 years in a row on an entry level contract, you better DAMN WELL keep it up once you're paid the big bucks.
And Dion's paid the very very very very big bucks.
Calgary figured out what they had. A guy who either
a) had a lucky start, and people figured him out
b) played for the big contract, then stopped putting in so much effort
either way, it adds up to the same thing. A DRAMATICALLY overpaid player that can't be traded for anything other than some scraps. And that's what we gave them. Scraps. Because that's all he was worth.
I'm not saying Phaneuf is a BAD player per say. I'm just saying that it's one of the worse results/cap hit ratios in the entire league.
I woudln't say that I want any of those scraps back that we lost for Phaneuf...
I'm just saying none of them would currently be under contract anymore...
Okay, fair points. But here is my question, lets say we didnt trade for phaneuf, and all we did was let those contracts expire... Would have our team have been better short and long term? Who would you have signed with that money? The only better D-man to have hit the market is suter, and I dont think he wants to play in toronto.
