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ATD 2014 Line Up Advice Thread

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Old
02-09-2014, 03:48 PM
  #1
King Forsberg
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ATD 2014 Line Up Advice Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
We had one of these the past two years, and it's getting to the point where lines have already been/are forming, so any advice sought/shared is welcome.
I saw some GMs asking what lines would work better in the draft thread so I figure this should keep those threads a little cleaner.

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02-09-2014, 06:02 PM
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VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo Hockey
\\\\\\--- Sidney Crosby --- Jaromir Jagr
Anatoli Firsov --- Darryl Sittler --- //////
CHEMISTRY ALERT! Yeah, both Sid and JJ are first line players, but so were Hull and Mikita, and they played on different lines because they each wanted the puck so often. Same here. Messier played with Gretzky early but it became quickly apparent the team was better with each anchoring their own lines. Many of the best teams of different eras had a superstar on each of the top two lines.

Crosby and Jagr should each be the playmakers of their own line; Firsov was known as selfless, hard working and skilled one on one, so perhaps put Firsov with Crosby; Sittler was known for his wrist shot and toughness, so he and Jagr ought to click. Hence, the advice is to assemble two balanced high octane lines, 1 and 1A:

Firsov - Crosby - RW
LW - Sittler - Jagr

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02-09-2014, 06:08 PM
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markrander87
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Thoughts on my top 6:

Alex Delvecchio – Jean Beliveau – XXXXXX
XXXXXX – Mickey Mackay – Rod Gilbert

Should Provost slot in there somewheres?

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02-09-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thoughts on my top 6:

Alex Delvecchio – Jean Beliveau – XXXXXX
XXXXXX – Mickey Mackay – Rod Gilbert

Should Provost slot in there somewheres?
I think I know what your plan is, and it makes sense, but I really can't comment because it's still too incomplete. But I prefer Provost as your 3rd line anchor...

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02-09-2014, 06:22 PM
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overpass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thoughts on my top 6:

Alex Delvecchio – Jean Beliveau – XXXXXX
XXXXXX – Mickey Mackay – Rod Gilbert

Should Provost slot in there somewheres?
Beliveau-Gilbert and Mackay-Provost seem like more natural C-RW combos to me. Provost could play on a third line too, of course.

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02-09-2014, 06:25 PM
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Can't decide which line to put Cashman on (and regretting not making a list before unplanned drinking Friday night and panic phone-picking him from a foreign location Saturday, after being skipped):

R. Conacher - Dionne - Cashman or Cashman - Morris - St. Louis

Alternatively I guess this could be an option: Cashman - Dionne - Morris ... but that probably leaves Dionne a little bit stranded with sub par top line wingers.

I'm thinking the Morris - St. Louis duo probably needs him the most.

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02-09-2014, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Beliveau-Gilbert and Mackay-Provost seem like more natural C-RW combos to me. Provost could play on a third line too, of course.
You don't think MacKay - Gilbert is a natural pairing? Gilbert had is best success with a 2-way centre like MacKay.

TDMM had mentioned i'd get a lot more out of Provost with a playmaking C. Would MacKay provide enough playmaking?

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02-09-2014, 06:42 PM
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Are folks sold on Bob Gainey's abilities as a second-liner next to Malkin (defensive presence and corner-man)? I know he typically resides on the 3rd line of most ATD teams but, thought he would look great flanking Malkin….

On a side note, what do folks think about Malkin's abilities as a LW?

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02-09-2014, 06:43 PM
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Nalyd Psycho
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I agree, he's better suited to the Morris-St. Louis combo, although I'm not sure who the finisher is on the line...

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02-09-2014, 06:53 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
Are folks sold on Bob Gainey's abilities as a second-liner next to Malkin (defensive presence and corner-man)? I know he typically resides on the 3rd line of most ATD teams but, thought he would look great flanking Malkin….

On a side note, what do folks think about Malkin's abilities as a LW?
Keep Malkin at center. He's never played left wing (unless he did some time for the national team I'm unaware of), but he briefly played right wing and struggled with it.

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02-09-2014, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
Are folks sold on Bob Gainey's abilities as a second-liner next to Malkin (defensive presence and corner-man)? I know he typically resides on the 3rd line of most ATD teams but, thought he would look great flanking Malkin….

On a side note, what do folks think about Malkin's abilities as a LW?
I think it's a waste of what Gainey and Malkin do best to put them together.

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02-09-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I agree, he's better suited to the Morris-St. Louis combo, although I'm not sure who the finisher is on the line...
I was under the impression Morris was decidedly more of a goal scorer than playmaker, but could certainly be mistaken. St. Louis is certainly heavily biased towards playmaking but does still have 2 top 5 finishes in goals, and a handful more 30+ goal seasons...clearly not a trigger man by any stretch, of course. Honestly though, I had the same concern which is why I opted for Morris over another center I think is better.

I might have to shuffle things up if others feel the same.

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02-09-2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
You don't think MacKay - Gilbert is a natural pairing? Gilbert had is best success with a 2-way centre like MacKay.

TDMM had mentioned i'd get a lot more out of Provost with a playmaking C. Would MacKay provide enough playmaking?
Ratelle played a similar style to Beliveau so I figured Gilbert would be a good fit with him. But then, almost any wingers could play with Beliveau - he should be really easy to build around.

TDMM is absolutely right about Provost needing a playmaker. But you don't have Henri Richard on your team, and none of your centres is going to bring out the best in Provost both offensively and defensively quite like Henri did. Beliveau could help Provost excel offensively, but MacKay might have the speed, agility, and checking skills to fill Henri's place beside Provost defensively. I really don't know enough about MacKay's playmaking to comment - will have to leave that to your research.

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02-09-2014, 07:13 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneberg View Post
I was under the impression Morris was decidedly more of a goal scorer than playmaker, but could certainly be mistaken. St. Louis is certainly heavily biased towards playmaking but does still have 2 top 5 finishes in goals, and a handful more 30+ goal seasons...clearly not a trigger man by any stretch, of course. Honestly though, I had the same concern which is why I opted for Morris over another center I think is better.

I might have to shuffle things up if others feel the same.
If you look at the table at the bottom of seventieslord's bio on Morris you can see his five best goal and assist finishes size up pretty well with the other PCHAers. I think he's more balanced than I realized, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being the shooter for his line. He did score an absurd number of goals in the 1917 Stanley Cup.

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02-09-2014, 07:32 PM
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King Forsberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
CHEMISTRY ALERT! Yeah, both Sid and JJ are first line players, but so were Hull and Mikita, and they played on different lines because they each wanted the puck so often. Same here. Messier played with Gretzky early but it became quickly apparent the team was better with each anchoring their own lines. Many of the best teams of different eras had a superstar on each of the top two lines.

Crosby and Jagr should each be the playmakers of their own line; Firsov was known as selfless, hard working and skilled one on one, so perhaps put Firsov with Crosby; Sittler was known for his wrist shot and toughness, so he and Jagr ought to click. Hence, the advice is to assemble two balanced high octane lines, 1 and 1A:

Firsov - Crosby - RW
LW - Sittler - Jagr
I'm not so sure Crosby and Jagr couldn't work together. I understand your analogy with Hull and Mikita but Crosby isn't nearly the puck hog they were. He's been criticized before for being too unselfish. He can certainly be a very effective player without the puck. Playing with Jagr shouldn't be a problem at all. Jagr will likely get all the attention from defenders leaving Crosby to roam around into a scoring position, something he's very good at. Both Crosby and Jagr are very good at protecting the puck, Jagr being the best of all time IMO. They'll be able to cycle the puck and enter the zone as good as anyone. Crosby should be able to set up Jagr for plenty of goals and vis-versa.

I like Firsov on the second line with Sittler. Like you said Sittler was not afraid to battle. He should be able to provide forechecking and corner play to help set up and provide space for Firsov. I might still change up and move to the lineup you suggested but I don't think the way I have it now can't work.

As always, I appreciate your advice.

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02-09-2014, 07:45 PM
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As a guy who's watched nearly every game Crosby has played as a Penguin, he certainly is much more of a play maker 1st and shooter/goal scorer 2nd. I'll agree that he does play a more cross over style but his vision and ability to read plays before they happen is 2nd to none in the game today. I don't think it's a perfect fit, but it certainly can work and work well.

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02-09-2014, 07:53 PM
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King Forsberg
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I understand the risk of having two puck dominant players on the same line but it's not like I have Kovalchuk, Malkin, and Bure on a line together. Both players are pass first players that can also score goals, more so in Jagr's case. They're both skilled enough and smart enough to create a ton of offense together.

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02-09-2014, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Scuderi View Post
If you look at the table at the bottom of seventieslord's bio on Morris you can see his five best goal and assist finishes size up pretty well with the other PCHAers. I think he's more balanced than I realized, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being the shooter for his line. He did score an absurd number of goals in the 1917 Stanley Cup.
Yeah, and there seems to be a few quotes like "goal scoring star"and "one of the great scorers of the game" in there as well. I think I'm ok with that line for now, but could tweak it if the opportunity presents itself.

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02-10-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Forsberg View Post
I understand the risk of having two puck dominant players on the same line but it's not like I have Kovalchuk, Malkin, and Bure on a line together. Both players are pass first players that can also score goals, more so in Jagr's case. They're both skilled enough and smart enough to create a ton of offense together.
I feel as though this is the key. From my perspective, a player like Crosby always wants to win and, would seemingly do what it takes to win - including altering his game for the benefit of his team / line mates. If Jagr always wants the puck on his stick, I feel as though Crosby is smart enough to adapt his game...

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02-10-2014, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Scuderi View Post
Keep Malkin at center. He's never played left wing (unless he did some time for the national team I'm unaware of), but he briefly played right wing and struggled with it.
Thanks!

For some reason I always thought he played a little LW in his early Pittsburgh days...

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02-11-2014, 12:47 AM
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Line 2: Malone-Thornton-xxxxx

I honestly have no idea what type of player to get to play with these two, any suggestions are welcome.

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02-11-2014, 02:36 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Line 2: Malone-Thornton-xxxxx

I honestly have no idea what type of player to get to play with these two, any suggestions are welcome.
Probably a power forward type

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02-11-2014, 11:57 AM
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King Forsberg
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I'd say a power forward or someone with speed.

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02-11-2014, 01:48 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Line 2: Malone-Thornton-xxxxx

I honestly have no idea what type of player to get to play with these two, any suggestions are welcome.
Thornton is not a pushover and he is not bad defensively, but a bit more grit and defense probably wouldn't kill you on that line. On the plus side...that's about all there is left at right wing, anyway!

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02-11-2014, 01:59 PM
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Not sure if this is the right call with my top 3 D. I usually like to stack my top pairing, but with Vasko and Pilote having actually played together, I figured I'd maybe drop Gerard down to his natural spot at left D, and have opposing teams facing one of Pilote and Gerard for most of the game.

Quote:
Moose Vasko - Pierre Pilote
Eddie Gerard - D
D - D
Or would it be best to have Gerard-Pilote on the top pairing?

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