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Are the Leafs THE biggest mess in the entire NHL?

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Old
04-06-2012, 09:31 AM
  #51
Pyrophorus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaferbeliever View Post
I think the standing o was just a thank you for winning the last home game...if they we're cheering for the final results of the 2011-12 season, YIKES!!!
I think its more of a thank you, for the 1st 3/4's of the season.
The part of the season, we should be building from.

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:11 AM
  #52
rumman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaferbeliever View Post
I think the standing o was just a thank you for winning the last home game...if they we're cheering for the final results of the 2011-12 season, YIKES!!!
wonder what the players thought the standing O was for?????????????

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:16 AM
  #53
driver3000
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I'd have to give that distinction to Columbus. Countless high picks, very few working out. They've greatly mismanaged their best player and now he's likely gone this summer. They have no goaltending (I'm aware the Leafs don't either) and traded Jeff Carter.

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:20 AM
  #54
Dayjobdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Another win tonight, another 2 points that we don't need.
That seems to be the story the last few seasons for these Leafs teams.
Win meaningless games that cost us future great players and we end up
with possible 2nd line/2nd pairing talent instead of 1st line/top pairing talent.

After having a heated "discussion" with my father in law tonight (he's a Bruins fan..
it's been a rough year for me) it got me thinking: Just how big of a mess are the
Leafs in?

You look at every team in the playoffs and they have 3 things:

#1 centre, #1 d-man, #1 goalie

Looking at the Leafs roster and the Marlies roster...we don't have even 1 of
those things.

Even if you look outside the playoff picture, almost every team has a #1 centre,
#1 goalie and #1 d-man either on their team or in the pipeline.

Sure, we can say guys like Kadri, Colborne and Biggs are "great prospects"...
but the fact is, they'll likely max out as 2nd liners (if that).

I turn 22 in July and I remember all the great years with Sundin, Cujo and Co.
and it seems like year after year it's just getting harder and harder to support
this team and stick up for this once proud organization.

If you look at the picture without "blue and white goggles on"..the picture looks
pretty bleak, does it not?

And please Leaf fans, don't tell me that Ross and Carrick are going to bring us
the cup...
As a 22 year old who has not yet experienced much in the world, it is still surprising that you would think your team winning its final game of the season on home ice for their fans is meaningless.

The concept that the players would tank the game because this may lead to a slightly higher draft pick in a draft where it is impossible to gauge which of the top 7 or 8 or 9 players would actually be the best pick, is so seriously flawed that it defies description.

They play hockey on the ice, not on the Internet.

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:25 AM
  #55
The Shrike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ball Hockey View Post
The biggest? No. I think that honour goes to Calgary. They have Iginla and Kipprusoff, that's it.
If we had Kipprusoff, the discussion now would be about our first round playoff opponent.

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:25 AM
  #56
LeafsYoungGuns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Another win tonight, another 2 points that we don't need.
That seems to be the story the last few seasons for these Leafs teams.
Win meaningless games that cost us future great players and we end up
with possible 2nd line/2nd pairing talent instead of 1st line/top pairing talent.

After having a heated "discussion" with my father in law tonight (he's a Bruins fan..
it's been a rough year for me) it got me thinking: Just how big of a mess are the
Leafs in?

You look at every team in the playoffs and they have 3 things:

#1 centre, #1 d-man, #1 goalie

Looking at the Leafs roster and the Marlies roster...we don't have even 1 of
those things.

Even if you look outside the playoff picture, almost every team has a #1 centre,
#1 goalie and #1 d-man either on their team or in the pipeline.

Sure, we can say guys like Kadri, Colborne and Biggs are "great prospects"...
but the fact is, they'll likely max out as 2nd liners (if that).

I turn 22 in July and I remember all the great years with Sundin, Cujo and Co.
and it seems like year after year it's just getting harder and harder to support
this team and stick up for this once proud organization.

If you look at the picture without "blue and white goggles on"..the picture looks
pretty bleak, does it not?

And please Leaf fans, don't tell me that Ross and Carrick are going to bring us
the cup...
Ok first of all I've seen what you have, we are the same age. But what you have said is wrong. Surely going from one of the oldest teams to one of the youngest is a step in the right direction. Or perhaps the fact that we have a prospect pool that has great depth and potential, sure there are no 'can't miss' prospects on the Marlies but when is there Those players are usually already with the big club. I feel great with the future of this club longterm. The only thing we need is more consistent goaltending. Other than that we have grest depth coming up the pipeline. And as they come up more prospects from trading and the draft will come in. Have patience, the only bleak part of the future is the immediate part, the lack of leafs playoff hockey. But guess what? After the playoffs are over optimism and hope will be rampant again.


Last edited by LeafsYoungGuns: 04-06-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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Old
04-06-2012, 10:28 AM
  #57
NiL8r87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Bull View Post
They've got some recent success though. A game away from making it the Finals just a year ago, who knows if this year was an anomaly or not.
And what would our reaction be if Burke went from making the ECF to not making the playoffs? What was the reaction in Ottawa when they went from the finals to getting shutout in the 1st round to not making the playoffs?

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:30 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Krejci
Chara
Thomas
Krejci is not a #1 center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Datsyuk
Lidstrom
Hasek
Hasek played all of 4 games. Osgood was in net for the cup run, and while he played good in those playoffs, he was far from a prime #1 goalie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Crosby
Letang
Fleury
Letang was not a #1 defenseman at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Getzlaf
Pronger
Giguere
Getzlaf was not a #1 center at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Toews
Keith
Niemi
Depends on your definition of #1 goalie. Niemi was so great that Chicago, a team with goalie troubles, let him go. If Niemi counts, Reimer should not be written off yet.

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:33 AM
  #59
The Shrike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
So if the leafs are in the same spot next year what will u all say then
Goodbye Brian.

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:36 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
The oilers have so much elite young talent that they could EASILY fill those gaps by trading a few pieces of their plethora of talent.

The leafs don't have that option. We have so little elite young talent that we don't have anywhere close to the option of trading any of those pieces.
The oilers have Hall, Eberle and RNH.

The Leafs have Kessel and Gardiner, and maybe Lupul, and a group of players and prospects that are a tier above what Edmonton has below their big 3.

What "plethora of talent" are you talking about? What pieces are they going to trade?

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Old
04-06-2012, 10:45 AM
  #61
eyeball11
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No.

In case people didn't notice, a Tampa player directly shot the puck in his own net. When McCabe does this, he's the worst player in the world. When a Tampa player does it, most people here blame Gardiner.

Give it a rest folks. Bounces happen.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:26 AM
  #62
TheDroughtEndsHERE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsYoungGuns View Post
Ok first of all I've seen what you have, we are the same age. But what you have said is wrong. Surely going from one of the oldest teams to one of the youngest is a step in the right direction. Or perhaps the fact that we have a prospect pool that has great depth and potential, sure there are no 'can't miss' prospects on the Marlies but when is there Those players are usually already with the big club. I feel great with the future of this club longterm. The only thing we need is more consistent goaltending. Other than that we have grest depth coming up the pipeline. And as they come up more prospects from trading and the draft will come in. Have patience, the only bleak part of the future is the immediate part, the lack of leafs playoff hockey. But guess what? After the playoffs are over optimism and hope will be rampant again.

The "youngest team in the league" excuse is getting real old.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're in the same age bracket as St.Louis, LA, Nashville, Colorodo...why are they young but can still be successful? Because they draft
and develop their players well. Just because we have young 2nd and 3rd liners doesn't
mean in a couple years their going to be 1st line all-stars...they're still going to be
2nd/3rd liners.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:30 AM
  #63
TheDroughtEndsHERE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
As a 22 year old who has not yet experienced much in the world, it is still surprising that you would think your team winning its final game of the season on home ice for their fans is meaningless.

The concept that the players would tank the game because this may lead to a slightly higher draft pick in a draft where it is impossible to gauge which of the top 7 or 8 or 9 players would actually be the best pick, is so seriously flawed that it defies description.

They play hockey on the ice, not on the Internet.

As a 22 year old I havn't experienced much in the world? I moved out on my own at 16, had a daughter at 18 and never looked back. Do not sit there and question me and my "experiences" in life, because you have no idea and do not know me.

As far as the "winning your final game on home ice means something" what have the Leafs done every year post-lockout? Terrible all year and finished great, just to give fans alittle hope, only for it to be crushed the following season in the same fashion.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:48 AM
  #64
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I know it's easy to hate your team now, but c'mon, columbus has what, 4 games of playoff experience? all loses since their existence and the result years later? Last place.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:51 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
Terrible all year and finished great, just to give fans alittle hope, only for it to be crushed the following season in the same fashion.
yup. Toronto is cursed. We've been getting troll'ed for decades by the sports gods

and I feel bad for Buffalo because I think we've passed it on to them. Maybe by proximity to us, or maybe it was sharing their football games and we infected them somehow, dunno. But I knew having 2 games against them at the end was a bad sign. And mario williams is the most obvious cosmic Troll job ever. It's a foregone conclusion something will go wrong with that. Poor buffalol.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:58 AM
  #66
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Team is a disaster long term. If you take an objective look and see what is coming up, you should come to that conclusion.

My favourite thing to read on here is when people say we have a lot of great prospects coming up. Do we? Do we have guys who will be difference makers? I watch enough Marlies games to think the answer is no.

We just have a really poorly constructed team. We have so much money tied up in guys who are negatives on the ice. That is absolutely unacceptable in a cap world.

Burke said on day one that you build a team from the net out. Well if thats the case, then we dont even have a crane on the building site.

The number 1 centre would be great, but if you look at this season Bozak has similar point production to Statsny. And Kessel and Lupul were near the top of the league in points playing with him. From a goal scoring point of view, the big problem this year was that Kulemin did very little, and yet he still played most of the season on the 2nd line. MacArthur and Grabo also were off a little.

When you look at next year, there's a good chance Lupul comes back down to reality, even though I'm sure Burke will say he expects him to repeat last year.

The defense, our defensive forwards, and the net are our problems. That needs to be fixed. Even under the new coach, we still look horrible in our own zone many nights. That needs to be fixed for us to be competitive.

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Old
04-06-2012, 11:59 AM
  #67
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By the end of next year we'll know.

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Old
04-06-2012, 12:01 PM
  #68
eyeball11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
The "youngest team in the league" excuse is getting real old.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're in the same age bracket as St.Louis, LA, Nashville, Colorodo...why are they young but can still be successful? Because they draft
and develop their players well. Just because we have young 2nd and 3rd liners doesn't
mean in a couple years their going to be 1st line all-stars...they're still going to be
2nd/3rd liners.
Where youth comes into play with Toronto is more on the back end plus inexperience in goal and it is little wonder that's where their biggest troubles lie.

You may also notice:

Elliot .943
Quick .929
Rinne .923


Last edited by eyeball11: 04-06-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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Old
04-07-2012, 12:32 AM
  #69
Pyrophorus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I know it's easy to hate your team now, but c'mon, columbus has what, 4 games of playoff experience? all loses since their existence and the result years later? Last place.
A point I was thinking: If we make the playoffs next year, and the Jets
and BJ's don't, and we win just one game, against our opponent, we'll
be in a much better place.

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Old
04-07-2012, 03:40 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDroughtEndsHERE View Post
You look at every team in the playoffs and they have 3 things:

#1 centre, #1 d-man, #1 goalie

Looking at the Leafs roster and the Marlies roster...we don't have even 1 of
those things.

Even if you look outside the playoff picture, almost every team has a #1 centre,
#1 goalie and #1 d-man either on their team or in the pipeline.
Not every playoff team has a # 1 centre, # 1 dman and # 1 goalie

Phoenix: No # 1 center. A # 1 goalie who came out of nowhere this season

Nashville: No # 1 center

New Jersey: No # 1 dman, Questionable if they have even have a # 2. Larsson should be a # 1 at some point in his career but he isn't even close to one yet

Florida: Questionable No # 1 center, A # 1 Goalie who had been relegated to being a backup for years and a low end # 1 dman in Campbell (Phaneuf is a better dman).


Last edited by Ricky Bobby: 04-07-2012 at 03:47 AM.
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Old
04-07-2012, 04:12 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Not every playoff team has a # 1 centre, # 1 dman and # 1 goalie

Phoenix: No # 1 center. A # 1 goalie who came out of nowhere this season

Nashville: No # 1 center

New Jersey: No # 1 dman, Questionable if they have even have a # 2. Larsson should be a # 1 at some point in his career but he isn't even close to one yet

Florida: Questionable No # 1 center, A # 1 Goalie who had been relegated to being a backup for years and a low end # 1 dman in Campbell (Phaneuf is a better dman).
Pho has a #1D in Yandle.

Nash has a top 3 #1 G, a top 3 #1 D, and a top 10 #1D, and 2 very solid 2 way Cs.

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Old
04-07-2012, 04:37 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Not every playoff team has a # 1 centre, # 1 dman and # 1 goalie.
How many play-off teams have none of the above? I'd guess that every play-off team has at least 2 of them.


The Leafs have NONE of them....

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Old
04-07-2012, 07:00 AM
  #73
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I honestly think we just need a dependable goalie. Having someone you are not scared he would krap his pants in net at any given moment would boost the confidence of the team immensely and ,they'll play much better. Burke just has to stay the course ... Draft a good center this year, trade for a decent goalie, not great, decent, for depth players this offseason and then snatch a Getzlaf next season as a UFA and I really think this team will be a contender for the 2014 cup. If there is a lockout in 2012-2013, we might even be contending "next" season

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Old
04-07-2012, 07:13 AM
  #74
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Yeah, it should be worded as most playoff teams have at least one of 1C, 1D "OR" 1G. Many playoff teams have 2 of those 3 requirements. You cannot make the playoffs without having at least one of those 3, and often you need 2 of those 3.

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Old
04-07-2012, 07:55 AM
  #75
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The problem I have with the leafs is that I can`t figure them out. Are the players reasonably good, but the system is bad? Have the players been oversold, and really are not that good? I just do not know.

Last year, the team was lead by Grabs and Kulemin. This year, Kessel and Lupul. What happens if they get their act together?

I can see the team being lottery material next year. But I can also see a playoff team as well. The team is too Jekyl and Hyde to figure it out.

The one think I do know is that the kids have not developed as anticipated. That is a real killer.

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