HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Dallas Stars
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

General Stars Talk IV: The Prequel

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-06-2012, 08:47 PM
  #451
usefulfiction
Registered User
 
usefulfiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Who was it?
Benn

usefulfiction is offline  
Old
06-06-2012, 09:47 PM
  #452
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
So it goes.
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: College Station
Country: Latvia
Posts: 19,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by usefulfiction View Post
Benn
Yup.

I mean, technically, they are right, but that wasn't a very hard choice to make. I was expecting to see a FA that wasn't already on our team.

LatvianTwist is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 12:16 PM
  #453
txomisc
Registered User
 
txomisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 8,621
vCash: 500
Stars hired Bob Bassen to do something. Cue the "omg this franchise needs to stop living in the past" crowd.

txomisc is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #454
Stars99Lobo37
Away Games - 13
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sec 314 - Richardson
Country: United States
Posts: 52,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Stars hired Bob Bassen to do something. Cue the "omg this franchise needs to stop living in the past" crowd.
He's been working with the Alumni Association ever since they created it. I know he was there last off season right before the Alumni Classic. Have no problem with them creating the AA and taking it out into the public, which they apparently are going to do. If anything, it's a great idea and glad we have great alumni of this team to think up something like this.

Stars99Lobo37 is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 12:51 PM
  #455
Troy McClure
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The KlINGberg
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 27,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Stars hired Bob Bassen to do something. Cue the "omg this franchise needs to stop living in the past" crowd.
The last thing I will do is criticize something with Bob Bassen involved.

Troy McClure is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 02:28 PM
  #456
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
So it goes.
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: College Station
Country: Latvia
Posts: 19,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Stars hired Bob Bassen to do something. Cue the "omg this franchise needs to stop living in the past" crowd.
He coached me at a summer camp I went to.

Scary, how skilled 3rd and 4th liners are compared to us.

He's a great dude on and off the ice, though.

LatvianTwist is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 04:09 PM
  #457
Frozen Failure
Best Threadkiller
 
Frozen Failure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,817
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Frozen Failure Send a message via Yahoo to Frozen Failure
I will put this in the right spot this time!

Morrow + Dallas 1st:13 + Minny 3rd:68 for Kulemin + Bozak + Holzer

Ribeiro + LAK 2nd:59 for Bolland + Olesz + Chicago 1st:18

Robidas for Ottawa 1st:15 (might be too much for Robidas, but whatever send him to Ottawa)

Leaves us with two firsts, our second, our third and our later picks (sans Barchpick). Adds 5 roster players for 3. Could still draft two solid players in the first.

That leaves us with Fistric, Bachman/Besko, and whatever other pieces like Wandell or Garbutt that we want to move. Sign Turkey Jokinen and we're still a budget team but we have a lot more depth and potential. Have Glennie on the third line with Ott and Bolland... or Olesz/Vincour.

Also, every player except Bolland and Holzer have a connection to the team already. Turkeyhead played with GMJN in Florida and is probably on friendly terms with Kari. Olesz played with GMJN and happens to be Czech (and played for Vitkovice a long time ago). GMJN scouted and recruited Bozak, who also helped Benn in the BCHL.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jamie Benn ($4.000m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / Loui Eriksson ($4.250m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($3.000m) / Olli Jokinen ($3.500m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Scott Glennie ($1.620m)
Eric Nystrom ($1.400m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.800m) / Rostislav Olesz ($3.125m)
Tom Wandell ($0.893m) / Tomas Vincour ($0.800m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brenden Dillon ($0.900m) / Philip Larsen ($1.200m)
Alex Goligoski ($4.600m) / Korbinian Holzer ($0.800m)
Adam Pardy ($2.000m) / Trevor Daley ($3.300m)
Jordie Benn ($0.578m) /
GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m)
Richard Bachman ($0.605m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $53,245,000; BONUSES: $1,105,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $10,755,000

Still a "budget" team, but ready for the potential of having a better chance of making a splash in 2013 in the FA market, and room for paydays.

Or even the next year bringing in Oleksiak/Nemeth to take Pardy's spot, and Chiasson/R Smith coming in to take Ryder's spot. And someone taking Nystrom's spot.

Frozen Failure is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 04:18 PM
  #458
Ampersand
Dallas Stars Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,580
vCash: 500
I like where you're going with this, like you stated though, Robidas is not worth a first round pick.
I see a lot of Olli every year, and while he is talented, he is pretty soft.

But your reasoning is sound and the team at least looks playoff bound this way.

oh, and get rid of Pardy some way too. Or at least have Jordie in the starting 6, and have Pardy as the odd man out.

Ampersand is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 04:28 PM
  #459
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Olesz has negative value, the team is better with Vincour/Wandell/Garbutt on that line. At least get Frolik or Montador if Chicago is sending a salary dump. Jokinen is older and worse than Ribs, and he is going to want one last big payday and a long term, which will stick to the team if he retires with years left on his deal. Bozak is a 3C (but I would like to see the team kick the tires there). The team is better served in 2013 free agency by winning next season.

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 04:29 PM
  #460
Frozen Failure
Best Threadkiller
 
Frozen Failure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,817
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Frozen Failure Send a message via Yahoo to Frozen Failure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampersand View Post
I like where you're going with this, like you stated though, Robidas is not worth a first round pick.
I see a lot of Olli every year, and while he is talented, he is pretty soft.

But your reasoning is sound and the team at least looks playoff bound this way.

oh, and get rid of Pardy some way too. Or at least have Jordie in the starting 6, and have Pardy as the odd man out.
I don't think Pardy will be moved any time soon. He's not worth much, and I'm sure he'll miss time giving us a rotation on the back end. I don't really see him as a terrible terrible problem, but having what amounts to 4 kids (Dillon, Larsen, Holzer, Benn) on the backend might spell "WARNING WARNING DANGER GLEN GULUTZAN" on it.

I can understand the disdain for Olli Jokinen, but Ryder and Kulemin are far from "soft". I'd say Jokinen is on the level of softness as Ribeiro. That 2nd line might be streaky, but they're all pretty good 2 way players so the lack of production from them might not be quite as missed as if there were some less than stellar defensive guys there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Olesz has negative value, the team is better with Vincour/Wandell/Garbutt on that line. At least get Frolik or Montador if Chicago is sending a salary dump. Jokinen is older and worse than Ribs, and he is going to want one last big payday and a long term, which will stick to the team if he retires with years left on his deal. Bozak is a 3C (but I would like to see the team kick the tires there). The team is better served in 2013 free agency by winning next season.
I was going to suggest Frolik or Montador, but Frolik would be hard to rid ourselves of later. Montador has recent concussion issues and a partial NTC, but would be the best option of the three to put Pardy on the pine. Montador also closes a potential opening to bring up a youngster like Oleksiak or Nemeth in due time. Olesz is a UFA in two years' time. If Glennie can't hack it, Olesz can ride the third line for some time. I'd say they have similar offensive potential at this time.

I understand Bozak isn't a real top 6 forward, but we're not getting a 1C unless we bring one in from the draft. Bozak has potential to make Benn better, the chemistry is there, and Eriksson is downright elite. It's not a bad line, but it ain't no Alfie-Spezza-Heatley line, I know. I think Bozak has more potential than everyone gives him credit for, and he'll show more of it playing with Benn and Eriksson, who would probably be the best two linemates he'll have played with (Bozak has played with Kessel, Lupul, Kulemin, Stalberg, Joey Crabb, etc).

I feel even with Bozak with Benn and whatever salary dump we can pilfer from Chicago, this team has the potential to win next year. It gives us solid building blocks. And I don't like your tone, Mister!


Last edited by Frozen Failure: 06-07-2012 at 04:57 PM.
Frozen Failure is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 05:31 PM
  #461
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I was going to suggest Frolik or Montador, but Frolik would be hard to rid ourselves of later. Montador has recent concussion issues and a partial NTC, but would be the best option of the three to put Pardy on the pine. Montador also closes a potential opening to bring up a youngster like Oleksiak or Nemeth in due time. Olesz is a UFA in two years' time. If Glennie can't hack it, Olesz can ride the third line for some time. I'd say they have similar offensive potential at this time.

I understand Bozak isn't a real top 6 forward, but we're not getting a 1C unless we bring one in from the draft. Bozak has potential to make Benn better, the chemistry is there, and Eriksson is downright elite. It's not a bad line, but it ain't no Alfie-Spezza-Heatley line, I know. I think Bozak has more potential than everyone gives him credit for, and he'll show more of it playing with Benn and Eriksson, who would probably be the best two linemates he'll have played with (Bozak has played with Kessel, Lupul, Kulemin, Stalberg, Joey Crabb, etc).

I feel even with Bozak with Benn and whatever salary dump we can pilfer from Chicago, this team has the potential to win next year. It gives us solid building blocks. And I don't like your tone, Mister!
Olesz was in the AHL last season. At least Toronto's salary dump candidates can play in the NHL.

Bozak would be a good 3C for this team IMO, if we can get Morrow for Bozak+ going, that would be great. We can't trade Morrow for a #1 C, but we have one already named Jamie Benn.

If anyone hasn't read this yet, check it out, it settles the Benn should be a center/Benn should be a winger debate: http://www.anguscertified.com/jamie-...rstar-is-born/

TL;DR Benn produced the 3rd highest pts/60 in the NHL (Malkin, Eberle) with significantly lower offensive zone starts (66,61,48)

Your lineup is worse at 1C and 2C than the current one, and the defense makes me nervous (Robidas>Holzer). IMO the team should sign a 2nd line wing, bring Burish back (Wisconsin represent!), and bring in a shutdown 3C.

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 05:50 PM
  #462
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Maybe like so:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Loui Eriksson ($4.250m) / Mike Ribeiro ($5.000m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
Matt Fraser ($0.577m) / Jamie Benn ($4.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($5.000m)
Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Jim Slater ($2.000m) / Adam Burish ($1.500m)
Eric Nystrom ($1.400m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.800m) / Tomas Vincour ($0.800m)
Ryan Garbutt ($0.578m) / Tom Wandell ($0.893m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alex Goligoski ($4.600m) / Stephane Robidas ($3.300m)
Trevor Daley ($3.300m) / Philip Larsen ($1.500m)
Brenden Dillon ($0.900m) / Mark Fistric ($1.250m)
Adam Pardy ($2.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m)
Richard Bachman ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,146,667; BONUSES: $380,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $14,153,333

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 07:01 PM
  #463
MetalGodAOD*
Star Rangers
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,360
vCash: 500
I would love to get Slater on this team. The guy's a good 3rd line option.

MetalGodAOD* is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 07:07 PM
  #464
Frozen Failure
Best Threadkiller
 
Frozen Failure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,817
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Frozen Failure Send a message via Yahoo to Frozen Failure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Olesz was in the AHL last season. At least Toronto's salary dump candidates can play in the NHL.

Bozak would be a good 3C for this team IMO, if we can get Morrow for Bozak+ going, that would be great. We can't trade Morrow for a #1 C, but we have one already named Jamie Benn.

If anyone hasn't read this yet, check it out, it settles the Benn should be a center/Benn should be a winger debate: http://www.anguscertified.com/jamie-...rstar-is-born/

TL;DR Benn produced the 3rd highest pts/60 in the NHL (Malkin, Eberle) with significantly lower offensive zone starts (66,61,48)

Your lineup is worse at 1C and 2C than the current one, and the defense makes me nervous (Robidas>Holzer). IMO the team should sign a 2nd line wing, bring Burish back (Wisconsin represent!), and bring in a shutdown 3C.
Olesz has NHL experience and put up good numbers in the AHL last year. He's grossly overpaid for his production, but he's not a long term acquisition. He's got two years on his contract. I see no reason why we can't keep him around to help Vincour, since Dvorak had an absolutely mediocre season.

Bozak has potential to be better than a 3C. Yeah, he put up 47 points with Kessel and Lupul last year. Doesn't help that the Leafs were still terrible even with Kessel and Lupul scoring wildly.

I read it a week ago, and it says quite frankly, that everyone expects Benn to go back to the wing.

Would you prefer I suggest NHL centerman Jarret Stoll over Thanksgiving Fixture Olli Jokinen? Maybe you want a return of Jason Arnott? Ugh, I made myself sick thinking about that. Though, PA Parenteau could possibly line up at center instead, which would make signing him better, but he's just a younger Ribeiro, and maybe without any of the issues.

You left Robidas in the lineup? Really? After all the vitriol we've thrown around about him?

That lineup looks like another one that will miss the playoffs. A mediocre top 6 with a rehashing of a mediocre bottom 6 with basically the same defensive corps. A veritable mishmash.

A 'soft' first line. A 2nd line with a rookie, a better Michael Ryder, and a Tavares hanger-on. Two of which aren't that great defensively. A third line with about as much offensive potential as last year. A fourth line that is vastly improved, but only because we've signed guys to to move them down the lineup. Defensive pairings that don't work because they just aren't that good together or alone. Ones where we continue to shelter rookies and get guys who are considerably less talented/physical to get out matched?

But I guess I could say that about both proposed D corps there, but Holzer > Fistric offensively and are at probably equal defensively, and Holzer > Robidas defensively. Holzer's a Grossmann at worst, and Grossman was great before his knee exploded... great at shutting down the world's best player in Malkin.. which is why the Flyers acquired him.

Compared to the other D corps around the league, we are tiny. Tiny is not good. And we're not good at playing defense. We need a partner for Goligoski, and Holzer is a big RD who would probably compliment Goligoski's lack of defensive prowess and help him with taking pressure off him.

And Slater is not a good third liner. He is basically Vernon Fiddler, but I would take him over Fiddler 8/10 times. But we could easily have a Slater in Sceviour. So what is the point?

Frozen Failure is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 07:47 PM
  #465
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
So it goes.
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: College Station
Country: Latvia
Posts: 19,602
vCash: 500
That 1st trade is brutal for us. Kulemin will likely never be more than a 20 goal scorer (I think he's overrated a lot), Bozak is a great 3rd line center, but not top 6 material, and Holzer is nice but we have no need for him.

And Bozak will not be pushing Benn to the wing. God no.

If we're making a deal with Chicago, I'd want a center prospect coming back. Maybe something like Ribs+Bachs+LA's 2nd for Bolland+Pirri+18th. I don't know.

And I want no part of Jokinen. I doubt GMJN would either.

I'll post what I thought up as a solution earlier. Uses a lot of proposals tossed around on here.

LatvianTwist is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 09:14 PM
  #466
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Olesz has NHL experience and put up good numbers in the AHL last year. He's grossly overpaid for his production, but he's not a long term acquisition. He's got two years on his contract. I see no reason why we can't keep him around to help Vincour, since Dvorak had an absolutely mediocre season.

Bozak has potential to be better than a 3C. Yeah, he put up 47 points with Kessel and Lupul last year. Doesn't help that the Leafs were still terrible even with Kessel and Lupul scoring wildly.

I read it a week ago, and it says quite frankly, that everyone expects Benn to go back to the wing.

Would you prefer I suggest NHL centerman Jarret Stoll over Thanksgiving Fixture Olli Jokinen? Maybe you want a return of Jason Arnott? Ugh, I made myself sick thinking about that. Though, PA Parenteau could possibly line up at center instead, which would make signing him better, but he's just a younger Ribeiro, and maybe without any of the issues.

You left Robidas in the lineup? Really? After all the vitriol we've thrown around about him?

That lineup looks like another one that will miss the playoffs. A mediocre top 6 with a rehashing of a mediocre bottom 6 with basically the same defensive corps. A veritable mishmash.

A 'soft' first line. A 2nd line with a rookie, a better Michael Ryder, and a Tavares hanger-on. Two of which aren't that great defensively. A third line with about as much offensive potential as last year. A fourth line that is vastly improved, but only because we've signed guys to to move them down the lineup. Defensive pairings that don't work because they just aren't that good together or alone. Ones where we continue to shelter rookies and get guys who are considerably less talented/physical to get out matched?

But I guess I could say that about both proposed D corps there, but Holzer > Fistric offensively and are at probably equal defensively, and Holzer > Robidas defensively. Holzer's a Grossmann at worst, and Grossman was great before his knee exploded... great at shutting down the world's best player in Malkin.. which is why the Flyers acquired him.

Compared to the other D corps around the league, we are tiny. Tiny is not good. And we're not good at playing defense. We need a partner for Goligoski, and Holzer is a big RD who would probably compliment Goligoski's lack of defensive prowess and help him with taking pressure off him.

And Slater is not a good third liner. He is basically Vernon Fiddler, but I would take him over Fiddler 8/10 times. But we could easily have a Slater in Sceviour. So what is the point?
I hope it is clear from my other posts that I am not trying to start a feud with you, just disagreeing with what you posted.

The team doesn't need another player like Olesz, there are plenty of guys who bring the same skills on the team already.

I agree on Bozak, ideally if the team misses out on Slater/Kelly/whoever he would be in that slot if Morrow goes the other direction. Maybe if the team does poorly, Ribs gets sold at the deadline and Bozak gets a chance to play as the #2.

I agree there aren't legit top 6 C available as UFAs, so I don't think we should move and trade respectively the ones we do have.

I kept Robidas because I don't think the team will sign or trade for a guy who is an upgrade.

Many teams including the Stars last season give preferential zone starts to offensive focused players. It doesn't hurt to have a line centered by Mike Ribeiro playing consistently in the offensive zone. I thought that line was good last season, so why break it up unless legit better players come in.

The second line, centered by Jamie Benn, can handle tougher starts. PAP is defensively responsible, and the other spot on that wing can go to a player with a more offensive skillset. Feel free to put whichever wing prospect you like in that position, I like Fraser because this would give him a real chance to show his worth before the other prospects are also pushing for NHL icetime.

I didn't really think about D pairings at all, so if you want to move guys around, feel free. I thought about Larsen moving up the depth chart and Dillon coming in to play sheltered minutes while he adjusts to the NHL.

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 09:33 PM
  #467
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 16,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
The second line, centered by Jamie Benn, can handle tougher starts. PAP is defensively responsible, and the other spot on that wing can go to a player with a more offensive skillset. Feel free to put whichever wing prospect you like in that position, I like Fraser because this would give him a real chance to show his worth before the other prospects are also pushing for NHL icetime.
I agree Benn can handle tougher assignments than Ribeiro but disagree that you should put an offensive-oriented youngster like Fraser on his line; it's counter-intuitive. I think you'd want to play the Fraser type guy with Ribeiro and his preferential zone starts (which I don't actually think is all that skewed) and give Benn a cast of defensively competent players. Benn and Eriksson should likely be on the same line to play the role of Modano and Lehtinen who could play any situation.

glovesave_35 is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 09:39 PM
  #468
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I agree Benn can handle tougher assignments than Ribeiro but disagree that you should put an offensive-oriented youngster like Fraser on his line; it's counter-intuitive. I think you'd want to play the Fraser type guy with Ribeiro and his preferential zone starts (which I don't actually think is all that skewed) and give Benn a cast of defensively competent players. Benn and Eriksson should likely be on the same line to play the role of Modano and Lehtinen who could play any situation.
Fair enough, but I do worry about a pure scoring line centered by Mike Ribiero losing a faceoff/turning over the puck and then being trapped in the defensive zone for minutes at a time.

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 09:49 PM
  #469
Frozen Failure
Best Threadkiller
 
Frozen Failure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,817
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Frozen Failure Send a message via Yahoo to Frozen Failure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I hope it is clear from my other posts that I am not trying to start a feud with you, just disagreeing with what you posted.

The team doesn't need another player like Olesz, there are plenty of guys who bring the same skills on the team already.

I agree on Bozak, ideally if the team misses out on Slater/Kelly/whoever he would be in that slot if Morrow goes the other direction. Maybe if the team does poorly, Ribs gets sold at the deadline and Bozak gets a chance to play as the #2.

I agree there aren't legit top 6 C available as UFAs, so I don't think we should move and trade respectively the ones we do have.

I kept Robidas because I don't think the team will sign or trade for a guy who is an upgrade.

Many teams including the Stars last season give preferential zone starts to offensive focused players. It doesn't hurt to have a line centered by Mike Ribeiro playing consistently in the offensive zone. I thought that line was good last season, so why break it up unless legit better players come in.

The second line, centered by Jamie Benn, can handle tougher starts. PAP is defensively responsible, and the other spot on that wing can go to a player with a more offensive skillset. Feel free to put whichever wing prospect you like in that position, I like Fraser because this would give him a real chance to show his worth before the other prospects are also pushing for NHL icetime.

I didn't really think about D pairings at all, so if you want to move guys around, feel free. I thought about Larsen moving up the depth chart and Dillon coming in to play sheltered minutes while he adjusts to the NHL.
No, it's too late we're already feudin', I'm gonna create a miniseries on the History Channel about it! Do you want dibs on Kevin Costner?

Meh, I just don't see Olesz as a threat to any prospect or current players' developmental path. He's better than Garbutt and Wandell. Honestly, he's better than Nystrom too. And he's definitely better than Burish. He's just a body for the bottom 6 who can play 3rd or 4th line minutes and will probably want to fight for an NHL job again. Reminder that he is basically a Glennie ****up by Florida.

I'd be very willing to give Bozak 2c duty with Benn on the wing. I mean, if we could get Kulemin + Bozak for Morrow I'd be quite happy with that return. Kulemin could be that physical 2nd line 20 goal scorer we could use to compliment Ribeiro and Ryder. That is, if we even keep Ribeiro. And honestly my biggest/latest dig against him is that Gully gave him far too long a leash last year. Ribs basically ran the PP and it sucked.

And I disagree that the Ribeiro line deserved their preferential treatment. Remember, that they often ended up IN the defensive zone, oft because of Ribeiro or Ryder coughing up the puck. There's a reason that Loui got glued to that line, and it's because Ribeiro and Ryder are very very risky with the puck and turn it over a lot... which I see you are concerned about, but obviously not that concerned about it. Putting Fraser with Ribeiro and Ryder is literally asking for a goal against every time they turn over the puck with our ineffective defense.

Almost anything we could theoretically bring in would be an upgrade for Robidas. I'd rather not rush prospects, but we could easily get an upgrade for him if we were planning on moving him. Maybe Muhammed Aulie from Tampa...

The team needs to move on wholesale from the old guard and get the new guard some better guns. Unless they're going to ride out the old guards' contracts and get absolutely nothing for their services... At this point, after 4 years of no playoffs, I would still sell at the deadline even if we were in PO contention.

Seriously.

Frozen Failure is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 10:00 PM
  #470
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
So it goes.
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: College Station
Country: Latvia
Posts: 19,602
vCash: 500
Receive:

Brenden Morrow
2012 Dallas 3rd Round Pick

Receive:

Ryan Spooner


Receive:

Mike Ribeiro
Richard Bachman

Receive:

Dave Bolland
Brandon Pirri
2012 Chicago 1st Round Pick


Receive:

Stephane Robidas

Receive:

Mason Raymond
2012 Vancouver 1st Round Pick


Signings
Alex Semin, 1 Year, $5M Per
Antero Nittymaki, 2 Years, $2.5M Per

FORWARDS
Mason Raymond ($2.600m) / Jamie Benn ($5.625m) / Alexander Semin ($5.000m)
Loui Eriksson ($4.250m) / Brandon Pirri ($0.870m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Tomas Vincour ($0.800m)
Tom Wandell ($0.893m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.800m) / Colton Sceviour ($0.578m)
Eric Nystrom ($1.400m) / Ryan Garbutt ($0.578m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alex Goligoski ($4.600m) / Sheldon Souray ($2.000m)
Mark Fistric ($1.750m) / Philip Larsen ($1.750m)
Trevor Daley ($3.300m) / Brenden Dillon ($0.900m)
Jordie Benn ($0.578m) / Adam Pardy ($2.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m)
Antero Niittymaki ($2.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,145,000; BONUSES: $615,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $13,155,000

All the contracts work out pretty well. Most of our trades do make us worse right now, but not by very much. We get younger in all of them, and all the trades are to contenders, so our veterans all have a legit shot at a Cup.

Spooner could also slot in for Pirri.

For the draft:

13th - Ceci
18th - Girgensons/Gaunce (this is all a pipe dream, so one of them falls) (realistically, Hertl)
26th - Jankowski

Center goes from one of the worst depth positions to arguably the strongest, behind D. Left wing is still pretty weak, but I can see some of our forward prospects shifting to the left side.

Also, adding Raymond gives every prospect a chance to develop in the AHL, or we don't sign Semin. Either one works. I slotted Semin in just for now, but I'm fine either way.


Last edited by LatvianTwist: 06-08-2012 at 03:36 PM.
LatvianTwist is offline  
Old
06-07-2012, 10:27 PM
  #471
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
No, it's too late we're already feudin', I'm gonna create a miniseries on the History Channel about it! Do you want dibs on Kevin Costner?

Meh, I just don't see Olesz as a threat to any prospect or current players' developmental path. He's better than Garbutt and Wandell. Honestly, he's better than Nystrom too. And he's definitely better than Burish. He's just a body for the bottom 6 who can play 3rd or 4th line minutes and will probably want to fight for an NHL job again. Reminder that he is basically a Glennie ****up by Florida.

I'd be very willing to give Bozak 2c duty with Benn on the wing. I mean, if we could get Kulemin + Bozak for Morrow I'd be quite happy with that return. Kulemin could be that physical 2nd line 20 goal scorer we could use to compliment Ribeiro and Ryder. That is, if we even keep Ribeiro. And honestly my biggest/latest dig against him is that Gully gave him far too long a leash last year. Ribs basically ran the PP and it sucked.

And I disagree that the Ribeiro line deserved their preferential treatment. Remember, that they often ended up IN the defensive zone, oft because of Ribeiro or Ryder coughing up the puck. There's a reason that Loui got glued to that line, and it's because Ribeiro and Ryder are very very risky with the puck and turn it over a lot... which I see you are concerned about, but obviously not that concerned about it. Putting Fraser with Ribeiro and Ryder is literally asking for a goal against every time they turn over the puck with our ineffective defense.

Almost anything we could theoretically bring in would be an upgrade for Robidas. I'd rather not rush prospects, but we could easily get an upgrade for him if we were planning on moving him. Maybe Muhammed Aulie from Tampa...

The team needs to move on wholesale from the old guard and get the new guard some better guns. Unless they're going to ride out the old guards' contracts and get absolutely nothing for their services... At this point, after 4 years of no playoffs, I would still sell at the deadline even if we were in PO contention.

Seriously.
I will be played by Ian McShane.

I don't think Morrow will fetch 1 top 6 player let alone 2, and I hesitate to add things that would return a package of Bozak and Kulemin, ie the 1st this year.

And it isn't that Ribs deserves offensive zone starts, its that he needs them to maximize his output. Defending Bid D looked into that once Gully started giving more zone time to Ribeiro and IIRC his production improved greatly. Benn can produce from either offense- or defense- heavy ice time and Ribs can't.

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 12:02 AM
  #472
MetalGodAOD*
Star Rangers
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I will be played by Ian McShane.


And it isn't that Ribs deserves offensive zone starts, its that he needs them to maximize his output. Defending Bid D looked into that once Gully started giving more zone time to Ribeiro and IIRC his production improved greatly. Benn can produce from either offense- or defense- heavy ice time and Ribs can't.
Well of course force feeding one line offensive zone starts will improve a player's product.. but Benn's also took a hit being forced to play as a checking line forward. I don't think Gully so much realized Ribs needed offensive zone starts, but more that he lost faith in Riberio defensively. And rightfully so.

It's one of the reasons I want to see us move beyond Ribs this offseason, even though I know we won't. A.) Get some return on him before he walks in UFA, since he obviously won't be a part of our core when we can contend. And B.) Set up a top 6 where one line doesn't need to get babied just to produce.

Although to be fair, having a real defensively responsible 3rd line would eliminate the problem of Benn being forced to play in defensive zone all the time. Nystrom-Fiddler-Dvorak utterly failed at that last season, and started being fed offensive zone starts near the end for the same reason. Benn's line was literally the only line Gulutzan could trust.

MetalGodAOD* is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 12:16 AM
  #473
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Well of course force feeding one line offensive zone starts will improve a player's product.. but Benn's also took a hit being forced to play as a checking line forward. I don't think Gully so much realized Ribs needed offensive zone starts, but more that he lost faith in Riberio defensively. And rightfully so.

It's one of the reasons I want to see us move beyond Ribs this offseason, even though I know we won't. A.) Get some return on him before he walks in UFA, since he obviously won't be a part of our core when we can contend. And B.) Set up a top 6 where one line doesn't need to get babied just to produce.

Although to be fair, having a real defensively responsible 3rd line would eliminate the problem of Benn being forced to play in defensive zone all the time. Nystrom-Fiddler-Dvorak utterly failed at that last season, and started being fed offensive zone starts near the end for the same reason. Benn's line was literally the only line Gulutzan could trust.
And Benn produced the 3rd best pts/60 in the NHL with just 48% offensive zone starts http://www.anguscertified.com/jamie-...rstar-is-born/

If Benn can put up 70 next season (not hard to imagine given his freak injuries and more PP time) with similar zone starts, that is a hugely important. The team can afford to shelter Ribiero, Ryder, and maybe the prospects when they come up with Hall/Eberle/RNH treatment. A better 3rd line would certainly help, but I am not sure overpaying for Kelly/Stoll fits the offseason plan the organization has publicly hinted at.

Mr Misty is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 12:28 AM
  #474
MetalGodAOD*
Star Rangers
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
And Benn produced the 3rd best pts/60 in the NHL with just 48% offensive zone starts http://www.anguscertified.com/jamie-...rstar-is-born/

If Benn can put up 70 next season (not hard to imagine given his freak injuries and more PP time) with similar zone starts, that is a hugely important. The team can afford to shelter Ribiero, Ryder, and maybe the prospects when they come up with Hall/Eberle/RNH treatment. A better 3rd line would certainly help, but I am not sure overpaying for Kelly/Stoll fits the offseason plan the organization has publicly hinted at.
I'm well aware of Benn's advanced statistics.

I absolutely agree Benn is a beast. I'm just saying imagine what he could do for our team if he was given zone starts comparable to Riberio. That's why I think fixing our bottom 6 with some defensively sound players would do wonders for us. In my ideal world that involves trading Riberio to Washington/Chicago for a young top 6 C prospect, adding one through FA, getting a kid in there, and moving Ott down to the 3rd. Add in a guy like Slater or Bozak and focus on a real checking line.

MetalGodAOD* is offline  
Old
06-08-2012, 12:48 AM
  #475
Frozen Failure
Best Threadkiller
 
Frozen Failure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,817
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Frozen Failure Send a message via Yahoo to Frozen Failure
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
I'm well aware of Benn's advanced statistics.

I absolutely agree Benn is a beast. I'm just saying imagine what he could do for our team if he was given zone starts comparable to Riberio. That's why I think fixing our bottom 6 with some defensively sound players would do wonders for us. In my ideal world that involves trading Riberio to Washington/Chicago for a young top 6 C prospect, adding one through FA, getting a kid in there, and moving Ott down to the 3rd. Add in a guy like Slater or Bozak and focus on a real checking line.
I don't know why everyone keeps putting Slater on the same level as Bozak. Bozak is on the level of guys like Matt Stajan and Kyle Wellwood and Sam Gagner. Slater is on Fiddler and Marcel Goc's tier.

But yes, having an actual third line that can put up an average of 35-45 points each and be trusted enough for defensive zone starts would be a wonderful thing. This is why I don't think Ott will go, because he was part of the Benn being in the defensive zone a bunch.

I agree with UP that we need to move on from having guys we have to consistently shelter who make up the bulk of our offense. We need our top producing lines to be defensively responsible. This is why Chicago is so scary, because 4/5 of their top 6 forwards are good defensively (Kane is the loner).

Frozen Failure is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.