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General Stars Talk IV: The Prequel

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Old
04-11-2012, 03:10 PM
  #201
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One of them will get a start at the least

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04-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #202
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If Team USA is able to pick up a guy like Quick or Howard, then I would expect Campbell to get one start and Bachman to get none. If they have to go with someone like Montoya or Boucher, then I could see Campbell getting a couple of games. I would love to see Bachman get to play but I doubt he gets any playing time unless someone get hurt.

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04-11-2012, 05:20 PM
  #203
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Apparently Campbell will be the 3rd goalie again, according to Mark.

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04-11-2012, 05:31 PM
  #204
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I'm a little surprised to see Campbell as the #3 guy. Although this does mean that Bachman should get a start, which will be nice to see.

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04-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #205
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Bachman is arguably better right now. It's a pretty smart move, but you can't go wrong with either.

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04-11-2012, 07:20 PM
  #206
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I never want to view a failed regular season as a positive thing, but it is refreshing to see so much Stars talent deemed talented to enough to suit up for their respective countries at an event such as the WC.

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04-11-2012, 08:12 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Apparently Campbell will be the 3rd goalie again, according to Mark.
Is this crazy to think or do you get the idea USA Hockey is counting on Jack Campbell as much as the Dallas Stars are to be an elite goaltender?

He was not a great choice based on his play the last two years, but they bring him along as the 3rd both years.

I get that he's probably there because he's been absolutely fantastic (before this WJC) in every tournament he's played in for them. My point is though, I can't recall a 19 and 20 year tagging along to the WC in the summer because of his play in the U-18 or U-20. It's like they just bring him along because they expect in a few years for him to be their go-to-guy, and they want him to soak up as much as possible.

Most of the time you see guys going over that earned it in the NHL, AHL, and sometimes NCAA with great years. Campbell seems like they're just bringing a prospect along because of what they expect from in the future.

Not saying that's a bad thing ... just wondering if that's what it seems like to anyone else.

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04-11-2012, 08:17 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Is this crazy to think or do you get the idea USA Hockey is counting on Jack Campbell as much as the Dallas Stars are to be an elite goaltender?

He was not a great choice based on his play the last two years, but they bring him along as the 3rd both years.

I get that he's probably there because he's been absolutely fantastic (before this WJC) in every tournament he's played in for them. My point is though, I can't recall a 19 and 20 year tagging along to the WC in the summer because of his play in the U-18 or U-20. It's like they just bring him along because they expect in a few years for him to be their go-to-guy, and they want him to soak up as much as possible.

Most of the time you see guys going over that earned it in the NHL, AHL, and sometimes NCAA with great years. Campbell seems like they're just bringing a prospect along because of what they expect from in the future.

Not saying that's a bad thing ... just wondering if that's what it seems like to anyone else.
I think so too. Its slightly concerning, because treating a prospect with that much pedigree can have an adverse effect and lead to entitlement (Hi Glennie). It's a good thing that Campbell's biggest strength is his work ethic and drive. I'm not worried about him for that reason, and think it's a good experience for him.

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Old
04-11-2012, 08:18 PM
  #209
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He wouldn't be there if Miller had accepted his invite.

You still make a good point, though, and I hope in time he IS the go-to guy for both Team USA and Dallas.

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04-11-2012, 08:51 PM
  #210
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In other news, Dallas Morning News reporters continue to show how stupid they are.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...ill-suffer.ece
And he just said it again...This time with Ott included.

Quote:
Some tough calls on Brenden Morrow and Steve Ott. Do you keep them?

Kevin Sherrington: I don't know how you subtract guys who have been major contributors and tell the Stars fans who are left that you're starting over. I think they have to add a couple of big-time free agents to the mix. Gaglardi can't afford to alienate any more fans.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...-s-why-....ece

Feel free to alienate Gaglardi.

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04-11-2012, 08:57 PM
  #211
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What has happened to the DMN?

If you honestly think Morrow and Ott can help this team win, fine. That's your opinion, and it's a legitimate hockey discussion.

... but the opinion that you don't trade them because fans will be angry is just dumb.

Winning is the only things most fans care about. If you win, people will show up. If you trade Morrow and Ott, and on top of that you suck again then next year could be absolute hell. However, trade them and replace them with legitimate pieces to help the team right now, and the tickets get sold regardless.

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04-11-2012, 08:58 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
What has happened to the DMN?

If you honestly think Morrow and Ott can help this team win, fine. That's your opinion, and it's a legitimate hockey discussion.

... but the opinion that you don't trade them because fans will be angry is just dumb.

Winning is the only things most fans care about. If you win, people will show up. If you trade Morrow and Ott, and on top of that you suck again then next year could be absolute hell. However, trade them and replace them with legitimate pieces to help the team right now, and the tickets get sold regardless.
Yep, if the mavs were leading their conference nobody would have given a **** about odom dogging it

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04-11-2012, 09:52 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
What has happened to the DMN?

If you honestly think Morrow and Ott can help this team win, fine. That's your opinion, and it's a legitimate hockey discussion.

... but the opinion that you don't trade them because fans will be angry is just dumb.

Winning is the only things most fans care about. If you win, people will show up. If you trade Morrow and Ott, and on top of that you suck again then next year could be absolute hell. However, trade them and replace them with legitimate pieces to help the team right now, and the tickets get sold regardless.
Pretty much yeah. I wouldn't be pissed if they got traded.

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04-11-2012, 09:58 PM
  #214
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Remember people on twitter were acting like the Stars won the cup when Ott wasn't traded at the deadline.

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04-11-2012, 09:59 PM
  #215
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Remember people on twitter were acting like the Stars won the cup when Ott wasn't traded at the deadline.

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Old
04-11-2012, 10:02 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
What has happened to the DMN?

If you honestly think Morrow and Ott can help this team win, fine. That's your opinion, and it's a legitimate hockey discussion.

... but the opinion that you don't trade them because fans will be angry is just dumb.

Winning is the only things most fans care about. If you win, people will show up. If you trade Morrow and Ott, and on top of that you suck again then next year could be absolute hell. However, trade them and replace them with legitimate pieces to help the team right now, and the tickets get sold regardless.
Are Dallas writers trying to equate Morrow with Dirk, or something?

That "C" on his jersey is nothing more than extra fabric and stitching.

If Modano can go, anyone can.

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04-11-2012, 10:06 PM
  #217
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The media here treats Morrow (and to a lesser extent Ott) like they are Modano and Lehtinen of this era. I'm beginning to believe that most fans that are left have forgotten what having a good team is like and that's why they're so attached to players like Morrow and Ott who use to be apart of those good teams.

Attendances wouldn't suffer at all imo if their one was gone. Alienating the fans? Come on. They're just grasping at straws.

One thing cures EVERYTHING and that's winning on the ice. This is a team, a hockey club. Not the Morrow and Ott fan club.

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Old
04-11-2012, 10:30 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Is this crazy to think or do you get the idea USA Hockey is counting on Jack Campbell as much as the Dallas Stars are to be an elite goaltender?

He was not a great choice based on his play the last two years, but they bring him along as the 3rd both years.

I get that he's probably there because he's been absolutely fantastic (before this WJC) in every tournament he's played in for them. My point is though, I can't recall a 19 and 20 year tagging along to the WC in the summer because of his play in the U-18 or U-20. It's like they just bring him along because they expect in a few years for him to be their go-to-guy, and they want him to soak up as much as possible.

Most of the time you see guys going over that earned it in the NHL, AHL, and sometimes NCAA with great years. Campbell seems like they're just bringing a prospect along because of what they expect from in the future.

Not saying that's a bad thing ... just wondering if that's what it seems like to anyone else.
That's honestly why I expected him to be the #2 guy and get a start or two this year. He's been Team USA's go to goalie at the junior level for a while and its seems like they are grooming him for that role at the senior level.

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04-11-2012, 10:38 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
The media here treats Morrow (and to a lesser extent Ott) like they are Modano and Lehtinen of this era. I'm beginning to believe that most fans that are left have forgotten what having a good team is like and that's why they're so attached to players like Morrow and Ott who use to be apart of those good teams.
Agreed 100%. I think you see it when fans evaluate many of the players on this roster. Any guy who looks to offer a hint of being better than terrible often gets highly elevated value or inflated hopes of what he'll become. I really get the feeling that we're so used to watching a bad team that the "good player" calibration in our heads has been turned way too low.

To my favorite example, when I say Wandell is a spare, my proof can be found on NBC Sports. It's not possible to watch the Flyers and Pens play at the high skill level they are and think Wandell would see any ice time for either team.

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04-11-2012, 11:22 PM
  #220
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To my favorite example, when I say Wandell is a spare, my proof can be found on NBC Sports. It's not possible to watch the Flyers and Pens play at the high skill level they are and think Wandell would see any ice time for either team.
You're right, Joe Vitale and Zac Rinaldo are both vastly better hockey players than Wandell.

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04-12-2012, 12:02 AM
  #221
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They're on par with him, and you don't hear fans of those teams talking about giving them top six minutes, which is my point about needing to calibrate what is good and not.

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04-12-2012, 12:11 AM
  #222
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Wandell's better comparison is a guy like Erik Christensen (who's not in the playoffs atm, but might have been if NYR didn't trade him). Small, skilled, inconsistent, enigmatic player with hands of stone. Can play top 6 some times but doesn't have the consistency to be a full time player. Then gets jumped in a bottom 6 role and just doesn't really fit due to his skillset being made moreso for scoring.

Guys like Rinaldo fit a grinder/enforcer role. Wandell doesn't. His style of play suits the top 6, but it remains to be seen whether he can actually do it.

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04-12-2012, 12:37 AM
  #223
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They're on par with him, and you don't hear fans of those teams talking about giving them top six minutes, which is my point about needing to calibrate what is good and not.
There's a distinction to be made here. Most of the fans who want(ed) to see Wandell get more minutes in a top 6 role feel that way because they are painfully aware of how lacking in depth this team is. At that point you start looking up and down your roster and seeing if maybe there's some chemistry to be found with a player from the lower lines with more skilled players. That's quite a different thing from thinking a player deserves a spot in the top 6 of a properly put together Cup contending team, which is what both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are.

Sounds like you're taking shots at fans of a bad team who know their team is bad rather than fans who have grossly misjudged a player.


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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Guys like Rinaldo fit a grinder/enforcer role. Wandell doesn't. His style of play suits the top 6, but it remains to be seen whether he can actually do it.
I don't really agree that it's top 6 or bust for Wandell. He has a strong enough defensive game that he won't hurt you playing in a bottom 6 role. His board game is criminally underrated, which is one of the biggest aspects of a successful NHL hockey player. It's what allowed Loui to be Loui and it's what makes Wandell an acceptable option even in a "grinding" or "checking" role. I don't think he's ill-suited for that type of role at all.

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04-12-2012, 12:42 AM
  #224
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Oh sure, Wandell could be a solid 3rd line checker. I was more comparing him to 4th line guys as he's been utilized, and to which he's being compared to here.

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04-12-2012, 01:01 AM
  #225
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Wandell should be playing heavy PK minutes. He was badly underutilized in that sense by the new coaching staff.

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