The fact is that most people can't be sure about his skating because the guy just loafs around the ice. If he would actually try to win a race to a loose puck or try and beat a d-man to the outside then we would have a point of reference.
It is hard to tell how fast a car is when your grandmother is driving it.
Think NFL; Most RB are very mobile but do not do well in a 40 yard dash. WR and CB are faster but do not have as much mobility.
Jagr, Ribeiro, Markov, Desharnais, Alfredsson are example players that will not outskate anyone but move quite well. I'm sure there is much better examples than those but you get the point.
That is simply false. Everyone that see him play regulary say otherwise.
Do you know why you are wrong? Because you never seen him play live and only once or twice on TV. Also you let your hate blind you.
WHy do you never bash all those other prospects that you never see play and just this one????
You are the one who loves blindly. I have seen enough of him and the other top prospects to make objective critiques of each one.
Almost every published report of Grigorenko has questions about his work ethic and drive and they are unanimous in calling him a perimeter player. Instead of building shrines in his name try reading what others who have watched him besides myself have to say.
And are you insinuating that I have a personal agenda against Grigorenko????? Get back to reality my friend as I am simply a die hard Hab fan who wants to see this team win another championship. I believe in the facts and can't be bothered with fantastical delusions about superstars and unicorns jumping over rainbows.
There is no doubt that Grigorenko is the 2nd most gifted player in this draft. That being said, if Timmins passes on him then it will be absolute proof that Timmins doesn't think he has the work ethic/character to wear the Habs jersey.
Can't wait for that day!
Last edited by Estimated_Prophet: 04-08-2012 at 12:33 AM.
Think NFL; Most RB are very mobile but do not do well in a 40 yard dash. WR and CB are faster but do not have as much mobility.
Jagr, Ribeiro, Markov, Desharnais, Alfredsson are example players that will not outskate anyone but move quite well. I'm sure there is much better examples than those but you get the point.
From my understanding, Grigorenko slows the game down with the puck on his stick. So really it doesn't matter whether he gets faster or not because it'll never be a crucial part of his game.
Either you like that kind of player or you don't. I haven't seen him play much but he sounds one dimensional; he'll only beat you because of his hands. Just doesn't sound like a Timmins pick to me.
Think NFL; Most RB are very mobile but do not do well in a 40 yard dash. WR and CB are faster but do not have as much mobility.
Jagr, Ribeiro, Markov, Desharnais, Alfredsson are example players that will not outskate anyone but move quite well. I'm sure there is much better examples than those but you get the point.
Jagr and Alfredsson were both very fast in their prime.
You are the one who loves blindly. I have seen enough of him and the other top prospects to make objective critiques of each one.
Why do you NEVER talk about those other prospects?? You live in Ontario and NEVER talk about OHL prospects. Also the fact that you consider that you've seen enough of Grigorenko to make objective critiques is laughable at best. You never seen him live FFS and once or twice on TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet
There is no douby that Grigorenko is the 2nd most gifted player in this draft. That being said, if Timmins passes on him then it will be absolute proof that Timmins doesn't think he has the work ethic/character to wear the Habs jersey.
Can't wait for that day!
2nd most gifted player of the draft?? I suppose that you seen enough of Glachenyuk, Myrray, Dumba and Forsberg to say that... Why don't you ever talk about them.
I would like a scouting report on Forsberg please. And please tell us whcih games you saw from him.
The rank where Grigorenko will be drafted will tell us about the opinions of scout on his overall play; including character, speed, hands etc.
I haven't seen Galchenyuk play a game yet, so, as of right now Forsberg is still my guy.
I really think he could be a tremendous piece for us moving forward.
Galchenyuk is the biggest enigma of the 3 for me, but they all appeal to me.
I don't feel the need to support any particular prospect before they are drafted, but my gut tells me Forsberg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean
From my understanding, Grigorenko slows the game down with the puck on his stick. So really it doesn't matter whether he gets faster or not because it'll never be a crucial part of his game.
Either you like that kind of player or you don't. I haven't seen him play much but he sounds one dimensional; he'll only beat you because of his hands. Just doesn't sound like a Timmins pick to me.
I like cerebral players, but for me the Habs have always been about speed. It's one thing to diversify adding size, toughness, skill, etc, but to build around Grigorenko requires a radical change. I just don't see the pieces we have fitting with him, and that's why he doesn't seem to be the natural match that someone like Galchenyuk or Forsberg has.
A lot of people seem to underrate Trouba. Not at all saying we should draft him but I dunno why many people would rather Murray or Dumba over Trouba.
I think most of us like Trouba but he has very little offensive upside. He will more than likely top out as a 3-4 d-man. I don't believe in wasting high picks on this type of player as defensive d-men are easy to acquire via free agency. The idea is to draft players that are very difficult to acquire outside of the entry draft.
Murray is very intelligent and his some tangible offensive upside and can easily be projected as a top pairing d-man. In Dumba's case he is more of a wildcard who has great potential due to his physical skills. The question with Dumba is the mental side of the position combined with the fact that he isn't very big and plays a game that may result in frequent stints on the IR.
Trouba is a nice piece but I don't think he will ever be considered an impact player.
I was very skeptical about the whole Grigorenko "compete-level-gate" at first. It really would calm me down about him if I could watch him more often. Every time I've watched him he's impressed me. However, there's now a lot of people saying that he's got all these issues.
...I mean, they can't all be wrong, can they?
The only criticism about Forsberg however has been "he doesn't score a lot in Allsvenskan," which I think is just a silly argument. I mean, unless you take any of the Finns on this board and their rage-boners against anything Swedish seriously: then you would have to believe that he'll be picked around 27th overall.
I was very skeptical about the whole Grigorenko "compete-level-gate" at first. It really would calm me down about him if I could watch him more often. Every time I've watched him he's impressed me. However, there's now a lot of people saying that he's got all these issues.
...I mean, they can't all be wrong, can they?
The only criticism about Forsberg however has been "he doesn't score a lot in Allsvenskan," which I think is just a silly argument. I mean, unless you take any of the Finns on this board and their rage-boners against anything Swedish seriously: then you would have to believe that he'll be picked around 27th overall.
I have heard conflicting reports about Forsberg's skating. What would you say the consensus is on his top end speed, agility and quckness?
I have heard conflicting reports about Forsberg's skating. What would you say the consensus is on his top end speed, agility and quckness?
From what I've seen of him his skating is "choppy." That's all that's wrong with it. He doesn't have a "kuznetsovian" stride(possibly the most beautiful skating stride anywhere, IMO). However, his top end speed is good, he's actually quite quick in a straight line. I wouldn't say it's a detriment to his game at all.
However, his edge control, direction changing, and agility are simply great. Some of his moves, his ability to have the puck going one way, his feet going another, and his body language saying he's going somewhere else still is really something you have to rewind and watch over a few times(this is where highlights come in handy, I think). His movement is very efficient when he's in zone. He tends to swoop around very effortlessly, and gain a lot of space for himself using just his edges.
There's a lot of plays that he makes where you think "why..why doesn't the d just hit him? How did he get past that guy there? Wait...what?" Has a lot to do with his skating, and also a bit to do with his hands, which are some of the best in the draft class.
From what I've seen of him his skating is "choppy." That's all that's wrong with it. He doesn't have a "kuznetsovian" stride(possibly the most beautiful skating stride anywhere, IMO). However, his top end speed is good, he's actually quite quick in a straight line. I wouldn't say it's a detriment to his game at all.
However, his edge control, direction changing, and agility are simply great. Some of his moves, his ability to have the puck going one way, his feet going another, and his body language saying he's going somewhere else still is really something you have to rewind and watch over a few times(this is where highlights come in handy, I think). His movement is very efficient when he's in zone. He tends to swoop around very effortlessly, and gain a lot of space for himself using just his edges.
There's a lot of plays that he makes where you think "why..why doesn't the d just hit him? How did he get past that guy there? Wait...what?" Has a lot to do with his skating, and also a bit to do with his hands, which are some of the best in the draft class.
Thanks!
He is a bit of a mystery to many of us due to his limited exposure in North America. As much as we need a center I suspect that Forsberg would be a natural fit with Plekanec. Most Swedish players are defensively responsible and very cerebral. If he has the hands to finish and create then he would be a great compliment to Plekanec in the near future.
From what I've seen of him his skating is "choppy." That's all that's wrong with it. He doesn't have a "kuznetsovian" stride(possibly the most beautiful skating stride anywhere, IMO). However, his top end speed is good, he's actually quite quick in a straight line. I wouldn't say it's a detriment to his game at all.
However, his edge control, direction changing, and agility are simply great. Some of his moves, his ability to have the puck going one way, his feet going another, and his body language saying he's going somewhere else still is really something you have to rewind and watch over a few times(this is where highlights come in handy, I think). His movement is very efficient when he's in zone. He tends to swoop around very effortlessly, and gain a lot of space for himself using just his edges.
There's a lot of plays that he makes where you think "why..why doesn't the d just hit him? How did he get past that guy there? Wait...what?" Has a lot to do with his skating, and also a bit to do with his hands, which are some of the best in the draft class.
Forsberg's skating reminds me a little of Subbans. Not necessarily as fundamentally sound as it should be, but he's very agile to compensate for it. If there's any issue with it, it's the same concern I have for him in general - to be an elite player in the NHL he needs to be able to bulk up without it effecting his agility.
Speaking to people who have seen him regularly it's always the same concern, right now they think he's not quite strong enough yet to play full force in the NHL. Though if anything the Allsvenskan is good training for the North American game; less tactics and high end skill actually make it faster than the SEL.
He is a bit of a mystery to many of us due to his limited exposure in North America. As much as we need a center I suspect that Forsberg would be a natural fit with Plekanec. Most Swedish players are defensively responsible and very cerebral. If he has the hands to finish and create then he would be a great compliment to Plekanec in the near future.
We've tried to get Marleau, Briere, Lecavalier and got so desperate that we took on Gomez. No one trades 1st line Centers these days so drafting a Gally or Grigo is the only way for us to hopefully fill that lack of big frame down in the middle with sub 6' guys like Plekanec and DD.
If a dman is the 3rd best player in this draft, according to Timmins, he will draft him. And I'll be happy either way.
The last time Timmins had a very high pick, he chose a player nobody wanted, among a bunch of players everybody wanted which ended up (for the most part) as busts.
You can never have enough great dman. If Boston has proven anything last year is that with a great goalie and a great defense, you can win a cup.
I'm still hoping we finally get that superstar forward we've been waiting for, but get used to the idea: Timmins will pick BPA.
