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Sports Media: Bad News is Good News

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Old
04-08-2012, 01:07 AM
  #26
number72
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Yes let's blame the media because the leafs performed so awful this year.
This is the type of excuses I would expect from Burke.

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04-08-2012, 01:32 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
This environment is poisoned by the fact the GM has created a situation where young players must try and develop in a losing situation year after year based on team composition.

I feel sorry for Kessel and Schenn and other young players as their development is stymied by being forced to endure perpetual losing by playing on bad teams in Toronto. While other teams young players are blessed with being in winning environments and performing well under additional pressure and gaining invaluable playoff experience by being surrounded and sheltered during their key development years.

"Blue and White disease" as its called in Toronto, is at the forefront of this and its extended to the fan base that wants to blame the media as the reason for the team failures. When its management decisions of player personnel on the actual ice effecting the outcome of games not what someone writes in the newspapers.

Its the losing that brings on the criticism and the added pressure to perform. Winning solves everything !!
Didn't you want the Leafs to play the kids? Yet, the organization is doing a decent job letting the kids learn the pro game with the Marlies until they're ready. The last time I checked the Marlies are one of the strongest teams in the AHL and playoff bound. So what kind of agenda are you pushing?

Sorry for Kessel? 82 pts in 82 games? That's some serious development from last year. By your argument, no bad team should ever have any young players on it. Sheesh.

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04-08-2012, 01:44 AM
  #28
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Absolutely not. I guarantee that the newspaper that reads "LEAFS WIN STANLEY CUP" will be kept, framed, and immortalized.

Dumb articles on why the Leafs suck and feable attempts at fixing them are just as popular because... it's the Leafs, so it's all relative.

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04-09-2012, 10:44 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post

young men who are pro athletes are not fragile and are not prone to self doubt. in fact, i'm not sure you could pick a segment of the population that has more testosterone and self-confidence.

there's really no need to try to blame an outside source for this mess.
I don't entirely agree with this. When things are going well? Absolutely. This is probably why this team looked so good when things were going well.

However, when things go bad.....

As for the blame? Oh I think there is plenty of blame to go around for this season. And no, I dont think the media is an innocent bystander in this mess.....

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04-09-2012, 10:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by KONOHA View Post
Absolutely not. I guarantee that the newspaper that reads "LEAFS WIN STANLEY CUP" will be kept, framed, and immortalized.

Dumb articles on why the Leafs suck and feable attempts at fixing them are just as popular because... it's the Leafs, so it's all relative.
You gotta play the odds though if you're in the news industry. IF the Leafs ever win the cup, you can be guaranteed every paper will be all over it. However, the next day's headline? "Leafs Could have won in less games. Kessel needs to go."

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04-09-2012, 10:53 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
I think it would assuming it's done right and were able to get a young star like a Makinnon or MacDavid as an example people would love to come to the rink to see these kids play, and uni sales would go throw the roof imo. I think the people and media would be estatic to get a superstar player who we could have lead this team like Stevie Y did with Detriot and be a guy who plays 20+ seasons as a leaf. the only thing stopping this team from doing it is MLSE. however with all but 4-5 players on this team will be a UFA in the next 2 years so the time to do this is now imo.
Again, I disagree. We have a young star. 24 years old, top ten in league scoring, top five in goals. What do you read in the papers? He's gotta go.

Kadri is a bust. Schenn is a bust. Phaneuf (top 20 in d scoring in the league) is a bust. This team has never been younger. Has not been this exciting in years. Yet all the media can do is tear them apart. Hell, apparently Kessel hasnt even progressed this season now?

Do you really think that had Burke come out and stated that we were going to rebuild that things would be different? Had we drafted Seguin/ Hall, that they would be talking about what a great young player he is going to be?

We eat our own in Toronto.

And for the record. Yzerman was not always so revered in Detroit. IN fact, I remember many a discussion about how he would never be 'the guy'. Funny what a little patience does eh?

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04-09-2012, 10:59 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho* View Post
Rebuilding through the draft is exactly what they are doing, and clearly the Edmonton press have understood that, too.
How many more years do you see the Oilers rebuilding for before they take that next step?

10?
20?

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04-09-2012, 11:08 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
How many more years do you see the Oilers rebuilding for before they take that next step?

10?
20?
The Oilers were in the SCF in 2006. When was the last time the Leafs were?

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04-09-2012, 11:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
The Oilers were in the SCF in 2006. When was the last time the Leafs were?
And this has what to do with what was asked?

Seriously, how many more years are we to accept that the Oilers are 'rebuilding'?

At what point is this team full of budding megastars going to explode into the dynasty people keep thinking theyre going to be?

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04-09-2012, 11:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
And this has what to do with what was asked?

Seriously, how many more years are we to accept that the Oilers are 'rebuilding'?

At what point is this team full of budding megastars going to explode into the dynasty people keep thinking theyre going to be?
Well I guess this is the 6th season of their rebuild. FFS as Leafs fans we can't mock any organization right about now. When we are down to comparing the franchise's success over the last 25 years with the likes of the Islanders and Columbus and Florida we can hardly point a finger and laugh at what the Oilers are doing.

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04-09-2012, 11:23 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
And this has what to do with what was asked?

Seriously, how many more years are we to accept that the Oilers are 'rebuilding'?

At what point is this team full of budding megastars going to explode into the dynasty people keep thinking theyre going to be?
Depending on what moves are made, they could be competing for the playoffs as soon as next year. The underlying stats for the team took a huge upswing this year

2011 | 2012
0.74 | 0.91 5x5 scoring differential
29th | 22nd 5x5 rank

14.5 | 20.6 PP%
27th | 3rd PP rank

77.0 | 82.4 PK%
29th | 14th PK rank

2.33 | 2.52 goals/game
28th | T-19th goals/game rank

3.17 | 2.83 goals against/game
28th | 23rd goals against/game rank

-76 | -27 goal differential
30th | 23rd rank goal differential

I'd say, realistically, there will be improvement in the standings next year, but no playoffs. The year after is when playoffs should be the definitive goal, and nothing less should be tolerated.

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Old
04-09-2012, 11:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Yes let's blame the media because the leafs performed so awful this year.
This is the type of excuses I would expect from Burke.
Yup, i'm sure if you average the paper sales for a good season (including playoffs) it's more than this garbage. What you are seeing is damage control from the media (drawing as much sales as possible in a bad situation). There's no doubt they are creating drama etc.. but IMO its for the reason I stated last sentence, not your OP.

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Old
04-11-2012, 10:22 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
Well I guess this is the 6th season of their rebuild. FFS as Leafs fans we can't mock any organization right about now. When we are down to comparing the franchise's success over the last 25 years with the likes of the Islanders and Columbus and Florida we can hardly point a finger and laugh at what the Oilers are doing.
Whos laughing? Many people want to point at the Oilers as some sort of model to follow, but what have they done?

And over the last 25 years? Really? Toronto has four conference finals appearances.Theyve missed the playoffs 11 times (seven in a row of course, before that only four times in 14 seasons).

In the seven seasons we've missed the playoffs, the Oilers have made it once (The year of the finals). In fact, the year before that they also missed the playoffs. This is what we should be striving for? Really? Face it, the Oilers are Long Island North.

Regardless, an Oiler rebuild would never fly in Toronto. Right now, we'd all be discussing how Tyler Seguin is not a number one center (primarily because he has no top winger to play with) and how Brian Burke could have had Phil Kessel.

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04-11-2012, 10:28 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
Depending on what moves are made, they could be competing for the playoffs as soon as next year. The underlying stats for the team took a huge upswing this year

2011 | 2012
0.74 | 0.91 5x5 scoring differential
29th | 22nd 5x5 rank

14.5 | 20.6 PP%
27th | 3rd PP rank

77.0 | 82.4 PK%
29th | 14th PK rank

2.33 | 2.52 goals/game
28th | T-19th goals/game rank

3.17 | 2.83 goals against/game
28th | 23rd goals against/game rank

-76 | -27 goal differential
30th | 23rd rank goal differential

I'd say, realistically, there will be improvement in the standings next year, but no playoffs. The year after is when playoffs should be the definitive goal, and nothing less should be tolerated.
I'd say there is a good chance they move up, not much further to go down.

I'd still put money on the fact that the Leafs improve more.

Regardless, we are again discussing whether the media has an effect on the team.

Funny how Carlyle believes that the huge problem with this team is confidence. Does the media (who apparently believe that going from 60 pts to 80 pts in a season is not an improvement) contribute to the confidence issues of this team? Does it contribute to the inability of this city to allow its young talent to develop before running them out of town?

Why do so many players seem to thrive as soon as they leave?

Again, I do not believe they are the sole reason, but I do believe they play a big part.

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04-11-2012, 10:30 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by LetzgoEggo View Post
Yup, i'm sure if you average the paper sales for a good season (including playoffs) it's more than this garbage. What you are seeing is damage control from the media (drawing as much sales as possible in a bad situation). There's no doubt they are creating drama etc.. but IMO its for the reason I stated last sentence, not your OP.
Really?
Got any stats to back that up?

When the Leafs were a yearly contender back in the 90s and early 2000, which do you think sold more, "Sundin PPG again" or "McCabe screws up". Which do you think we saw more of?

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04-12-2012, 12:11 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
You gotta play the odds though if you're in the news industry. IF the Leafs ever win the cup, you can be guaranteed every paper will be all over it. However, the next day's headline? "Leafs Could have won in less games. Kessel needs to go."
As nasty as the media has been to the Leafs, if they won the cup they would be treated like gods for the summer. Anything less would be a facepalm. When they win the cup, the criticism ends. Simple as that.

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04-12-2012, 12:17 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Is bad news good news when it comes to Toronto sports teams? Is a losing Leafs team better for business?

Let's face it, "Phil Kessel needs to go" sells more papers than "Phil Kessel - PPG at 24!!". "Dion Phaneuf Overated" sells more than "Dion Phaneuf among the top defensemen in scoring"

Every day there is a new controversy, most based on fiction (or what ifs) that suddenly become concrete events. These controversial opinions are then spread and debated as if they are gospel, many times without an inch of documentation or proof to support them except that Damien Cox (or simmons, Kypreos, Dreger etc) said so, so it must be true. These 'facts' then lead to more assumed facts, which then leads to 'common knowledge' situations like "Phil Kessel wants out of Toronto", or "Brian Burke could have had four first rounders at the deadline" or even "We could have had Carter AND a first for Kaberle".

So our question is, in a market like Toronto is it really possible to rebuild? Young adults are fragile (yes even pro athletes). YOung men are prone to self doubt. So is this environment a poisoned one when it comes to young athletes? How big of an issue is the media? What effect does it have on players in Toronto, or coming here?

Look forward to your answers.
The players can ignore the media and so can you.

The phenomena you speak of is the oldest for of entertainment:

The Tragedy

Or

A Prof. once told me: "The thing people most like to see in this world is the big man slipping on a banana peel and falling down".

Yes it sells papers of course. So does winning. It's always one or the other.

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Old
04-12-2012, 12:22 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by KONOHA View Post
Absolutely not. I guarantee that the newspaper that reads "LEAFS WIN STANLEY CUP" will be kept, framed, and immortalized.

Dumb articles on why the Leafs suck and feable attempts at fixing them are just as popular because... it's the Leafs, so it's all relative.
So true. I was just clearing some junk out and i found the very yellowed front page of the Sun 92 World Series winning front page. Always meant to frame it. Now it's just junk but the memories are great.

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04-12-2012, 12:28 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by KONOHA View Post
As nasty as the media has been to the Leafs, if they won the cup they would be treated like gods for the summer. Anything less would be a facepalm. When they win the cup, the criticism ends. Simple as that.
Exactly anyone who has lived in Toronto and gone to bars like the Madison or Alice Fazooli's when the Leafs have been on a playoff run knows that to be a Leafs player after the game in a bar isn't the worst experience (Before anyone says that's not where the Leafs players hangout anymore that should say a lot about how long it's been since the Leafs have been in the playoffs)

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04-12-2012, 01:00 AM
  #45
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It's easier to frown than smile. Easier to kick a man when he's down than help him up. Not a fan of it. But as stupid as it is, negativity sells. Years and years of losing doesn't exactly help either. I think the media has just gotten comfortable with the negative and the losing. It'd be a shock to their system at this point to see success. I long wait for the day when success comes. Until then don't expect much else than negativity. And even then when the success comes it will be met with skepticism until the success is maintained. Again, not fan of it. But here we are and sadly this is what it's come to.

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04-12-2012, 09:51 AM
  #46
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Controversy sells papers. It was the same way when the Leafs were a contender. The media and fans ran Larry Murphy out of town, and how did he turn out? Same with McCabe, although that was justified. The media gets their whiipiping boy, and it's all over. The Sun especially is an over-the-top paper filled from cover to cover with sensationalism. Remember Simmons' article a few years back, when he "broke" a story that Sundin was going to have major surgery (hip, I think) and his career was in serious jeopardy?).

Of course, the media can't be blamed for the Leafs' failures. Truth is, the Leafs stink. Has nothing to do with it.

Ruffle feathers, sell more papers. That is the bottom line. Of course, the Sun has their own personal grudge with Burke, so writing **** really isn't that much of a stretch.

I am still a Burke supporter, but he brings a lot of it on himself. Every time I hear him say the Pittsburgh model was "winning a god damned lottery", I shake my head. That is not true, and Burke makes himself sound like a fool every time he says it, which has been multiple times. It's just fodder for the media.

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04-12-2012, 10:58 AM
  #47
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The media isn't the cause for the on-ice results.

However, they sure as hell add most of the fuel to the fire. The majority of news articles/segments this year have been the worst journalism I've seen in quite some time - and yet it still sells like crazy.

News papers have become tabloids and sports segments have become something we'd see on TMZ.

It's almost as embarrassing and as harmful to the clubs' image than the actual results and ultimate failures of the team.

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04-12-2012, 11:28 AM
  #48
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A lot of people have no idea how crappy it is outside of Toronto for Hockey. I lived in Boston for three years and no one talked hockey. It was all baseball. Now of course there are fans, but there is such minimal coverage of the NHL. The bruins are the cup champs and I'm sure everyone is talking baseball right now.

In New York it's the same.

In Florida its football.


I love all this coverage. You have no idea how bad it is outside of here.

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04-12-2012, 11:36 AM
  #49
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Just to add: living in the GTA during the Cup Playoffs is incredible. There's no better life and no better place to live. All this coverage: news, talk shows, 2 network broadcasts, the papers, etc. It's awesome.

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04-12-2012, 11:53 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Is bad news good news when it comes to Toronto sports teams? Is a losing Leafs team better for business?

Let's face it, "Phil Kessel needs to go" sells more papers than "Phil Kessel - PPG at 24!!". "Dion Phaneuf Overated" sells more than "Dion Phaneuf among the top defensemen in scoring"

Every day there is a new controversy, most based on fiction (or what ifs) that suddenly become concrete events. These controversial opinions are then spread and debated as if they are gospel, many times without an inch of documentation or proof to support them except that Damien Cox (or simmons, Kypreos, Dreger etc) said so, so it must be true. These 'facts' then lead to more assumed facts, which then leads to 'common knowledge' situations like "Phil Kessel wants out of Toronto", or "Brian Burke could have had four first rounders at the deadline" or even "We could have had Carter AND a first for Kaberle".

So our question is, in a market like Toronto is it really possible to rebuild? Young adults are fragile (yes even pro athletes). YOung men are prone to self doubt. So is this environment a poisoned one when it comes to young athletes? How big of an issue is the media? What effect does it have on players in Toronto, or coming here?

Look forward to your answers.
Your comments are right on. Bad news sells news.

The panic that a large and vocal group of reporters love to create, for the sake of their own business, can only be counteracted by a self confident ownership that sees its job as protecting the team and its management from the media.

Unfortunately, in the past, ownership went into panic mode when the media sometimes induced that panic, and this is where all the major errors made by the Leafs originate.

With very few opinions excepted, owners should assume that the opinions expressed in the media are mistaken, and deserve to be ignored. The reasons are just those that you have outlined.

If the team feels protected by its owners from the media frenzy, the players will not be as bothered by the constant frenzy surrounding the leafs.

The media cannot fire the owners. If the ownership is weak kneed, then the media can put pressure on the ownership to undermine the team and its management. This is hard for younger players to handle because they are still struggling to make a mark as pros, and worry that they may not be able to make it, after all.

This team needs someone like Harold Ballard, who reguarly told the media where to get off. (He had other less fortunate qualities that I will pass over in silence.)

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