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Canes at Panthers 4/7/12 Last game of the season

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04-08-2012, 08:42 AM
  #226
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
Wow, lot of negativity there. Look, I know what was said before the game, but let's be honest. That's all lip service. The Canes coaches and players know it was a meaningless game. How can you really get "up" for that? It's human nature, don't take it so hard.

Now at the beginning of the season, the horrible starts each year, THAT is a big problem. The last game of a lost season...who cares, I'm not holding anything against team players, coaches, or management. Not for that.
Well said Chuck. There's a lot to bang on this team for. Providing "canned" responses and then not being able to get up for a meaningless game isn't even close in my book. It's not like they're going to come out and say: "It's a meaningless game and now that we're out of it, I just want the season to end. Just going to make sure I don't get hurt".

Losing the last game last season with the playoffs on the line I agree with getting upset about. This game, not so much.

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04-08-2012, 09:51 AM
  #227
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I missed the bulk of this game, as the wife and I zipped off for Charleston, SC this weekend and were on our way back to Raleigh last night. We tuned in to Chuck on 99.9, but I had enough after the 2nd Florida goal. I enjoyed reading the billboards for South of the Border, as I always do, and wondered about all the wigs, Wrangers, brassieres and chandeliers at J*R.

It was a season with a lot of highs and lows, but in Muller I trust. I'm reserving judgement on the future until the future gets a little closer. In fact, I can't wait for it to get here.

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04-08-2012, 10:39 AM
  #228
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Well my point is they'll come into next year saying the same **** and then play the same way. There is a point at which you have to call them out on it because they are continually not backing up their words. And it was an important game. Last game of the season, last game of a contract for some of them, and you could screw up the Panthers playoff position. I don't see anywhere in there that it is meaningless.

Even though Mike Maniscalco is an idiot sometimes, at least he calls it like it is. He calls ****** play ****** and he doesn't sugarcoat things when they don't go our way.

The only positive I got last night was Muller looked genuinely pissed and talked about how we need to get better players this offseason. Now it is up to J.R. to do something...

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04-08-2012, 10:54 AM
  #229
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Wake me up on Draft Day.
WHAT WHAT WHAT???

This board counts on you for your in-depth analysis of prospects. This is your time to shine!

Once the draft is over, *then* you can get some rest. We'll wake you on July 1st...to let you know of the ways that teams who do not call themselves "Hurricanes" are making themselves awesome.

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04-08-2012, 10:56 AM
  #230
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Looks like Summer Ruutu has a broken heart to mend. Sorry couldnt help it Canes fans.

Good luck in the offseason and see you in October.

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04-08-2012, 10:58 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Looks like Summer Ruutu has a broken heart to mend. Sorry couldnt help it Canes fans.

Good luck in the offseason and see you in October.


Congrats on the division and good luck in the playoffs.

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04-08-2012, 11:07 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Well said Chuck. There's a lot to bang on this team for. Providing "canned" responses and then not being able to get up for a meaningless game isn't even close in my book. It's not like they're going to come out and say: "It's a meaningless game and now that we're out of it, I just want the season to end. Just going to make sure I don't get hurt".

Losing the last game last season with the playoffs on the line I agree with getting upset about. This game, not so much.
If the "canned" responses were limited to only "meaningless" games, then there'd be no problem. But they're not.

- The last game of last year: "We know how important this game is". Blown out.
- The first game of this year: "We want revenge". Blown out.
- The game against Florida in Feb, where the playoff chances essentially rested on: "It's a must-win game". Blow two goal lead, lose.
- The Columbus game, where the team had to win out to have any chance: "We won't take them lightly". Blown out.
- Finally, yesterday's game: "The team is pumped up, we know what's at stake". Blown out.

At what point is anyone held accountable for what's said? And even the minor stuff, like the talk about "coming out strong" then promptly falling flat on their face. "Stay out of the box" then taking stupid penalties. "Faceoffs are important" then losing key ones that lead to goals against. None of that stuff is brought up again after the game.

Hell, against the Devils recently, Skinner took two ridiculously selfish and stupid penalties that clearly set the tone for the rest of that game. And IIRC, no one questioned him about it. No one questioned Muller about it. It was just Muller's response of "Well, the team was disappointed by being mathematically eliminated, so they stunk tonight".

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04-08-2012, 11:10 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Looks like Summer Ruutu has a broken heart to mend. Sorry couldnt help it Canes fans.

Good luck in the offseason and see you in October.
Hahaha Maybe she'll have plenty of chances with Skinner since he won't be playing until October.

Same to you guys. All trash talk aside, it's nice to see Florida get their first division win.

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04-08-2012, 11:29 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
If the "canned" responses were limited to only "meaningless" games, then there'd be no problem. But they're not.

- The last game of last year: "We know how important this game is". Blown out.
- The first game of this year: "We want revenge". Blown out.
- The game against Florida in Feb, where the playoff chances essentially rested on: "It's a must-win game". Blow two goal lead, lose.
- The Columbus game, where the team had to win out to have any chance: "We won't take them lightly". Blown out.
- Finally, yesterday's game: "The team is pumped up, we know what's at stake". Blown out.

At what point is anyone held accountable for what's said? And even the minor stuff, like the talk about "coming out strong" then promptly falling flat on their face. "Stay out of the box" then taking stupid penalties. "Faceoffs are important" then losing key ones that lead to goals against. None of that stuff is brought up again after the game.

Hell, against the Devils recently, Skinner took two ridiculously selfish and stupid penalties that clearly set the tone for the rest of that game. And IIRC, no one questioned him about it. No one questioned Muller about it. It was just Muller's response of "Well, the team was disappointed by being mathematically eliminated, so they stunk tonight".
Seriously, I have no problem with getting pissed at a team for not coming up big during big games (like some of the ones you mention). I'm there.

But, I couldn't care less what they said before a game because I know that these are just lip service. Just like Crash teaching Meat in Bull Durham how to talk to the press, pro athletes in EVERY sport spout off the same lines. Usually, the better teams back it up and the weaker teams don't, but they ALL say it. It's very naive to think otherwise. They are always going to say "we have to come out strong, we have to play smart, we have to stay out of the box, etc...". Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

They should be held accountable for how they perform on the ice, regardless what they say. If you feel that they should be called out based on canned responses to the press, then fine. I prefer to worry about actual performance vs. press quotes.

EDIT: And we have no idea how they get called out by the coach behind close doors, but I suspect it happens a LOT more than many on this board believe.

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04-08-2012, 11:29 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Looks like Summer Ruutu has a broken heart to mend. Sorry couldnt help it Canes fans.

Good luck in the offseason and see you in October.



Seriously, good luck against the Devils. You guys had been without the playoffs too long... and ****, I'm a Pirates fan, if you guys can make it then maybe we can actually have a .500 season.

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04-08-2012, 11:53 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I prefer to worry about actual performance vs. press quotes.
Well then you should be worried about last night. All I saw was players skating emotionlessly back and forth to the bench, leaving their man in the defensive zone, and leaving defensive zone before one of our players even touched the puck. It looked like it was a chore to be out their instead of them having fun, which I believe raises a player's game. I can't think of a moment in that game that made me proud to be a Canes fan. In fact, it ****ing pissed me off to think that I'm paying for them to be on the team.

Also, I'm of the belief that you have to believe what you are saying to actually accomplish anything. So it worries me if they don't believe what they are saying and don't actually want to come out strong in an important game. I know they can't be expected to back up 100% of their words, but it worries me when they don't back up any of them. I've heard all too often the importance of a game and then seen a performance that was the polar opposite of their words. Other teams don't seem to have this problem as much as the Canes do.

My only hope is that they actually come out well next season, and have a chip on their shoulder. I know I would be pissed if I was in any way associated with that performance. But I guess a man can only dream...

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04-08-2012, 12:08 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
But, I couldn't care less what they said before a game because I know that these are just lip service. Just like Crash teaching Meat in Bull Durham how to talk to the press, pro athletes in EVERY sport spout off the same lines. Usually, the better teams back it up and the weaker teams don't, but they ALL say it. It's very naive to think otherwise. They are always going to say "we have to come out strong, we have to play smart, we have to stay out of the box, etc...". Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
I know all teams say it. But as you said, the better teams back it up and the weaker teams don't. Brooks Laich received a lot of heat for his canned response, saying the Caps were going to make the playoffs and he doesn't want to imagine a scenario where they don't. He backed that up on the ice, playing a strong game and scoring the GWG. Earlier this year, Staal had a really poor performance against Phoenix. He went to the media, said he recognized how poor a game it was for him and he'll play better in the future. The next game against Ottawa, a completely different game from him. I need to see more of that from the team than more of "Must win, fall flat".

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
They should be held accountable for how they perform on the ice, regardless what they say. If you feel that they should be called out based on canned responses to the press, then fine. I prefer to worry about actual performance vs. press quotes.
All I'm saying is that if they're saying something to the press, they're going on the record about something, they should back it up on the ice. If Staal says "Faceoffs are especially important", he can't follow that up by going 30% in the circle. If Skinner says "We need to play our game", he can't throw a hissy fit the next game.

And it's not just the players. JR let Cole go, then signed Poni and Stewart, saying "They weren't replacements for Cole and we're still looking". Then the season started and they were forced to try and become replacements for Cole. JR did jacksquat at the deadline, but said at that time that Carolina would go after a "top-flight winger" in the offseason. If he follows that up with signing some 3rd line winger that we'll stick in the top line, he needs to be held accountable.

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EDIT: And we have no idea how they get called out by the coach behind close doors, but I suspect it happens a LOT more than many on this board believe.
I'm sure it does. IIRC, there was an article recently about how Muller in the N&O and the players made it clear if he wasn't happy about something, he'd let them know. But it doesn't send a great message if you let the player know you're not happy, then don't hold them accountable when they continue to do it.

I'm sure Skinner's been called out by Muller with regards to his temper tantrums (at least, I'm hoping he has been). But if you're simply going to say "Hey, stop that" without any punishment when he doesn't, there's no fear to stop playing that way. I know I wasn't the only one hoping that Skinner would be benched in the Devils game. It sends the right message and publicizes that you're not happy with the player.

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04-08-2012, 12:14 PM
  #238
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Well then you should be worried about last night. All I saw was players skating emotionlessly back and forth to the bench, leaving their man in the defensive zone, and leaving defensive zone before one of our players even touched the puck. It looked like it was a chore to be out their instead of them having fun, which I believe raises a player's game. I can't think of a moment in that game that made me proud to be a Canes fan. In fact, it ****ing pissed me off to think that I'm paying for them to be on the team.
There's too many other things with the Canes to get that pissed about than the last game of the season when they are playing for nothing. I'm much more pissed about the fact that for the 2nd time in 3 years, they absolutely laid an egg for the 1st 1/4-1/3 of the season and were realistically out of it by Christmas and that twice in the last 5, they couldn't win a home game to get into the playoffs. It's an 82 game schedule and there will be times they lay eggs.

Quote:
Also, I'm of the belief that you have to believe what you are saying to actually accomplish anything. So it worries me if they don't believe what they are saying and don't actually want to come out strong in an important game. I know they can't be expected to back up 100% of their words, but it worries me when they don't back up any of them. I've heard all too often the importance of a game and then seen a performance that was the polar opposite of their words. Other teams don't seem to have this problem as much as the Canes do.
I guess it is just a difference in expectations. I've been around long enough to know that they say the same canned **** every game. Good teams will win more games regardless of what they say and bad teams (like the Canes) will lose more of those games regardless of their words.

Also, it's naive to say that other teams don't have this problem. You don't hear the quotes of other teams like Carolina (bubble teams at best with not much talent) so you can't say other teams don't have this problem. As a die-hard Cubs fan, I've heard the same stuff from them for years. What they say has little bearing on it and I know and expect that.

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My only hope is that they actually come out well next season, and have a chip on their shoulder. I know I would be pissed if I was in any way associated with that performance. But I guess a man can only dream...
I agree and hope they come out with a chip on their shoulder next year. That said, unless this team get's a talent upgrade, I expect they'll once again be a bubble team at best.

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04-08-2012, 12:22 PM
  #239
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Even with the improvement we aren't the good a team. In fact were still kinda bad with the possibility of improvement. Good teams that show up to play spank us. We need upgrades everywhere to be an actual contender. Even If we added suter and parise we still wouldn't be automatic for anything. I hope muller builds at least a fourth line he wants, if not a third.

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04-08-2012, 12:36 PM
  #240
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It's not so much that I was specifically mad about this one game. It was the fact that it was the same game that I've seen all too often this year. They had the look of the Maurice Era to me. Maybe it was an overreaction on my part, but it would have been nice to go out on a win for once and feel optimistic for next season. Instead, I see lifeless play and a team that looked like they didn't give a ****.

And no, I'm not saying that other teams back up their words 100% of the time. I'm saying that they at least look like they care when they don't do what they say they are going to do. I've watched enough hockey to be able to notice when a team is trying to back up their words versus when they were handed to them right before they gave the interview. They should decline the interview if they truly don't believe what they are saying. Hell, at least it would be honest. I know when my coach said something before a game, I would think about it every moment I was out on the ice. If it was go strong to the corners, I sure as hell would go as strong to the corners as I could.

I can understand little lapses in judgement, especially during the middle of the season. But when this is the last performance before the offseason, I truly can not understand it. As a player, who cares if the game is "meaningless"? You are out there because of all the work you have put in over the years. You are playing for pride and hope for the future. You NEVER treat the last game of the season like it doesn't matter.

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04-08-2012, 12:47 PM
  #241
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It's not so much that I was specifically mad about this one game. It was the fact that it was the same game that I've seen all too often this year. They had the look of the Maurice Era to me.
How much of it was really Mo's fault, I wonder, and how much is the players' fault?

One thing for sure, this team can't come out and go 2-8-1 to start the season (or whatever).

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04-08-2012, 12:59 PM
  #242
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I think the thing that frustrates me is that, y'know, they got rid of the coach because they felt that was the problem. We now have a shiny new coach who has done wonders for this team. But they still periodically show up and skate out onto the ice and then just inexplicably lay down and die when two nights before, they were tearing it up against much better teams. WHY? Why were they able to sweep the Bruins who are a FAR better team, and then turn around and get killed by the Islanders? It's not like it's just one or even a handful of players, the MAJORITY of the team just...has no drive some nights. WHY? They can clearly play the game. Why can they not do it with some measure of consistency. What's happening on those nights?

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04-08-2012, 01:09 PM
  #243
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I would suggest that all teams have bad nights and take nights off, but for the high-end teams, they can still win some of those games off talent alone. The Canes just don't have that luxury, so those nights are going to be magnified.

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04-08-2012, 02:01 PM
  #244
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Everything being said, I'm feeling kinda down today knowing we have to wait so long until more hockey. It's just not the same watching another team compete for the Cup.

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04-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #245
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One more thing, as far as Boosh goes, they never seem to play as well for him as they do Ward. I realize Ward is a better goaltender, but in terms of how they play in front of the net, they seem to always leave Boosh out to dry.

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04-08-2012, 02:10 PM
  #246
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I would suggest that all teams have bad nights and take nights off, but for the high-end teams, they can still win some of those games off talent alone. The Canes just don't have that luxury, so those nights are going to be magnified.
Bingo!

The bottom line is they still don't have the talent to be good team and need upgrades in a lot of areas to compete. Nothing the players say before the game changes that.

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04-08-2012, 02:16 PM
  #247
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Bingo!

The bottom line is they still don't have the talent to be good team and need upgrades in a lot of areas to compete. Nothing the players say before the game changes that.
That wasn't my point. At all. But if that's what you got out of it, there's no point in the argument.

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04-08-2012, 02:23 PM
  #248
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Great second half boys.

BTW your announcers are the best ive heard!!!

Cheers.

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04-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #249
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Great second half boys.

BTW your announcers are the best ive heard!!!

Cheers.
Glad you enjoyed them. I thought they did a good job of showing respect for the Panthers' efforts this season in congratulating them as much as they did.

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04-08-2012, 06:04 PM
  #250
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One more thing, as far as Boosh goes, they never seem to play as well for him as they do Ward. I realize Ward is a better goaltender, but in terms of how they play in front of the net, they seem to always leave Boosh out to dry.
I'd say it's more a matter of Ward frequently bailing out their mental lapses, whereas Boucher tends to let in a larger number of high-quality chances.

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