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Top 10 offensive defensemen

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Old
04-14-2014, 07:45 PM
  #76
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Kelly was 6th in Norris voting like you said in 57-58, then had a poor year in 58-59 because of a broken ankle. The story of his broken ankle is famous. From wikipedia:
Still Kelly had a 67-8-13-21 line in 59, most of that before the injury already right?

That put him 12th among Dmen scoring that year, some level Potvin never equaled as a low, never mind less competition for scoring spots on D in a 6 team league.

Even the season before 58, his 31 points, down from a 7 year run in the previous 8 years of a highs 40 points a year, still was good for 3rd place finish among all Dmen indicative of the lack of competition and variance that would take place and be possible in a league 3 times as large right?

I don't know what the answer is to his placement, it could be in the top 10 but it's more likely not for a couple of reasons as i have pointed out here.

Potvin, at his lowest level in 80 (in only 31 games mind you) is still 20th overall among Dmen in a 21 team league.

His worst pretty much full regular season low is a (I'm guessing here a bit) his 51 point season in 88 and it's still 19th, good for the first tier of Dmen in a 21 team league.

That's his absolute worst mind you and he should be held as a better offensive and overall Dman and player than Kelly and the case is quite strong for that IMO.

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Old
06-11-2014, 02:49 PM
  #77
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I'm going with

1. Orr
2. Coffey
3. Bourque
4. Kelly
5. Shore
6. Leetch
7. Potvin
8. Pilote
9. MacInnis
10. Housley

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Old
06-12-2014, 02:17 PM
  #78
Sentinel
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1. Orr
2. Coffey
3. Fetisov
4. Bourque
5. Kelly
6. Lidstrom
7. Shore
8. Leetch
9. Potvin
10. MacInnis

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Old
06-13-2014, 08:43 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'll quote the actual statistical evidence, presented by Hockey Outsider during the HOH Top 100 project:



Basically, your statements about the statistical evidence are false.
Yet Lidstrom's not in your top 10. Seems you don't agree with the evidence yourself.

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Old
06-13-2014, 08:48 PM
  #80
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Yet Lidstrom's not in your top 10. Seems you don't agree with the evidence yourself.
To the extent that I'm willing to defend a list I made 2 years ago, I would point out that Lidstrom never finished top 10 in overall scoring and never led his team's attack. I don't think it's unreasonable to have him out of the top 10, no.

I mean, I had Leetch and MacInnis 8th and 9th. Is it so crazy to have Lidstrom a little under those two in offense-only?

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Old
06-13-2014, 08:56 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
To the extent that I'm willing to defend a list I made 2 years ago, I would point out that Lidstrom never finished top 10 in overall scoring and never led his team's attack. I don't think it's unreasonable to have him out of the top 10, no.

I mean, I had Leetch and MacInnis 8th and 9th. Is it so crazy to have Lidstrom a little under those two in offense-only?
I don't think Lidstrom is top 10 either, but I was just pointing out that you cited a list as proof positive for Kelly, and that same list had Lids 2nd and you ignored it for him. I think hardy is right here. I don't see a case for kelly being ahead of Potvin.

Top 10 in points in a 6 team league is far from some super duper achievement imo.

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Old
06-13-2014, 08:58 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I don't think Lidstrom is top 10 either, but I was just pointing out that you cited a list as proof positive for Kelly, and that same list had Lids 2nd and you ignored it for him. I think hardy is right here. I don't see a case for kelly being ahead of Potvin.
Next time, read the entire post.

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Old
06-13-2014, 09:02 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Next time, read the entire post.
Oh, I read it and I don't think it helped your argument.

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Old
06-13-2014, 09:22 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Top 10 in points in a 6 team league is far from some super duper achievement imo.
Oh really? Try this; Contract the current 30 team league to 6 & then tell me being in the Top 10 is far from being a super duper achievement. And by all means factor in participation by country, "integrate" your 6 team league all you want with picks from Russia, Scandinavia & elsewhere and we'll just see how these Modern Day Supermen stack up shall we?... Your argument, that tack is specious. Disingenuous.

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Old
06-13-2014, 09:39 PM
  #85
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Top 10 in points in a 6 team league is far from some super duper achievement imo.
And yet Kelly (at 3 times) was the only dman to do it more than once.

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