I like the ASG vote argument. I guess I could turn it around and compare Rinne's Vezina and Hart votes from June to Howard's, but then that wouldn't really matter either would it?
The poster implied that the majority of the people think Rinne is SOOOO much better then Howard. I simply pointed out the all-star voting which nipped his theory in the bud.
I stand behind what I originally stated and give Howard the slight edge in goal if he's healthy. Howard was arguably the hottest goalie in the NHL before his injury, I'm sure he'll get back on that level starting tomorrow. He's simply that good... and he's proving to only get better.
Rinne is a capable goalie and I think fits into Nashville's system really well, but when each goalie is at their best; best vs best, Howard is the man.
I'm also not convinced with Nashville's top 6 and feel Detroit's sick defensive depth will make life miserable for their top 6 and bottom 6 at generating much offense, and Howard will be there swatting away the scraps. I expect the scoring to be 1-0 / 2-1 in Detroit's favor. Detroit just has too much potent offense that can/will score at will.
Wings in 5. I figure they'll take a night off so they won't get the sweep.
haha if Rinne played for the Detroit Freaking Red Wings he would be a star. Getting ANY recognition playing for Nashville is pretty much mini-superstardom. "Fans" who vote for the ASG don't give a crap about anyone playing for the Preds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034
yeah it's all because he plays for Nashville
i'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that he had like a sub .900 save pct at the all star break
At the break his save percentage was .925 and had won 12 of his last 13 starts.
Jesus ****ing christ. Are detroit fans really trying to convince us that Howard is anywhere near the caliber netminder Pekka is? Perhaps they are trying to convince themselves because they know they don't have the edge in net.
Please for the love of God and all that is holy fix your crappy arena's press box. Every time I travel up there the press box smells and its impossible to get any work done with faulty internet and ridiculously small stations where you can't even walk across the hall without bumping into people.
And to get "kronwalled" means to have the officials ignore a player launching himself in the air in 1:5 hits. Before someone says "Tootoo is worse!" I am not talking about Tootoo I am talking about kronwall.
I have refrained from making a prediction, but its Nashville's time. Not Detroit's. Preds in 6. Going to be a very hard fought series that can swing either way, but I believe Pekka gives Nashville the edge.
Last edited by piqued: 04-11-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Reason: attacking a fanbase
Jesus ****ing christ. Are detroit fans really trying to convince us that Howard is anywhere near the caliber netminder Pekka is? Perhaps they are trying to convince themselves because they know they don't have the edge in net.
Please for the love of God and all that is holy fix your crappy arena's press box. Every time I travel up there the press box smells and its impossible to get any work done with faulty internet and ridiculously small stations where you can't even walk across the hall without bumping into people.
And to get "kronwalled" means to have the officials ignore a player launching himself in the air in 1:5 hits. Before someone says "Tootoo is worse!" I am not talking about Tootoo I am talking about kronwall.
I have refrained from making a prediction, but its Nashville's time. Not Detroit's. Preds in 6. Going to be a very hard fought series that can swing either way, but I believe Pekka gives Nashville the edge.
Anywhere near? Yes, Howard is close to Rinne as a goaltender despite what you may think. He's not as flashy and he doesn't dive around as much but he gets the job done nearly just as well as Rinne does.
Let's not pretend that Rinne is playing behind a crap team when putting up the numbers he does. The team is front of Rinne is a defensive first type team and he has 2 top-10 defenseman helping him out....so spare me the "well Howard plays on the Red Wings which makes him look better than he really is" crap we always hear when it comes to Red Wing goalies. Rinne has every (if not more) advantage that Howard does right now and their career stats are similar:
Jesus ****ing christ. Are detroit fans really trying to convince us that Howard is anywhere near the caliber netminder Pekka is? Perhaps they are trying to convince themselves because they know they don't have the edge in net.
Please for the love of God and all that is holy fix your crappy arena's press box. Every time I travel up there the press box smells and its impossible to get any work done with faulty internet and ridiculously small stations where you can't even walk across the hall without bumping into people.
And to get "kronwalled" means to have the officials ignore a player launching himself in the air in 1:5 hits. Before someone says "Tootoo is worse!" I am not talking about Tootoo I am talking about kronwall.
I have refrained from making a prediction, but its Nashville's time. Not Detroit's. Preds in 6. Going to be a very hard fought series that can swing either way, but I believe Pekka gives Nashville the edge.
Pekka has swiss cheese moments... and Datsyuk's got his number.
Last edited by piqued: 04-11-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Reason: qep
Jesus ****ing christ. Are detroit fans really trying to convince us that Howard is anywhere near the caliber netminder Pekka is? Perhaps they are trying to convince themselves because they know they don't have the edge in net.
Please for the love of God and all that is holy fix your crappy arena's press box. Every time I travel up there the press box smells and its impossible to get any work done with faulty internet and ridiculously small stations where you can't even walk across the hall without bumping into people.
And to get "kronwalled" means to have the officials ignore a player launching himself in the air in 1:5 hits. Before someone says "Tootoo is worse!" I am not talking about Tootoo I am talking about kronwall.
I have refrained from making a prediction, but its Nashville's time. Not Detroit's. Preds in 6. Going to be a very hard fought series that can swing either way, but I believe Pekka gives Nashville the edge.
You're right. Howard is just a scrub. Despite putting up stats that rival Rinne's. Also behind a team that, apparently, is a inferior defensively.
We'll ignore his playoff stats that are clearly better, but for the sake of Pekka Rinne being the elite goalie he is, Howard is still a scrub.
Hell, .920 2.13 = scrub goalie stats.
Look. If you think Rinne is the only goalie in this series that can take over a game, you're in for a shocker. Nashville fans are acting like Rinne is the only goalie in this series that matters.
Go ahead and under estimate Howard, but do not act suprised if he starts stealing games (it's not like he came out of no where...ran for the Calder, had a great playoff run that year. Had a down sophomore year, but a great playoff season that season...then you have this season).
Is Rinne better? Sure. Is Howard far behind? I wouldn't say Rinne is leaps and bounds better or the stats would indicate so. After all, Nashville IS the better team this year (defensively), right? Howard, if he's THAT bad of a goalie, and that WAY behind Rinne...He wouldn't be nipping at Rinne's heels stats wise. Playing behind a worse team defensively than Rinne, you would think Howard wouldn't be able to sniff Rinne's stats. But there he is...
But Jimmy Howard is a scrub.
We'll just wait and see wont we.
Last edited by piqued: 04-11-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Reason: qep
Howard isn't a scrub. Come on. I was giving the slight edge to Chicago in who I would rather play because Howard is a really good goalie. We all know he's really good.
You're right. Howard is just a scrub. Despite putting up stats that rival Rinne's. Also behind a team that, apparently, is a inferior defensively.
We'll ignore his playoff stats that are clearly better, but for the sake of Pekka Rinne being the elite goalie he is, Howard is still a scrub.
Hell, .920 2.13 = scrub goalie stats.
Look. If you think Rinne is the only goalie in this series that can take over a game, you're in for a shocker. Nashville fans are acting like Rinne is the only goalie in this series that matters.
Go ahead and under estimate Howard, but do not act suprised if he starts stealing games (it's not like he came out of no where...ran for the Calder, had a great playoff run that year. Had a down sophomore year, but a great playoff season that season...then you have this season).
Is Rinne better? Sure. Is Howard far behind? I wouldn't say Rinne is leaps and bounds better or the stats would indicate so. After all, Nashville IS the better team this year (defensively), right? Howard, if he's THAT bad of a goalie, and that WAY behind Rinne...He wouldn't be nipping at Rinne's heels stats wise. Playing behind a worse team defensively than Rinne, you would think Howard wouldn't be able to sniff Rinne's stats. But there he is...
But Jimmy Howard is a scrub.
We'll just wait and see wont we.
Exactly. According to most Pred's fans, Nashville is better defensively, Rinne is a superstar goalie, and Howard isn't worthy of sniffing Rinne's jockstrap. Yet 2.12 is less than 2.39 last I looked Does not compute. Something in the equation is messed up. Maybe Howard and Rinne are just closer than they would like to admit. Howard did basically single-handedly keep the Wings in the playoff hunt his rookie year. But hey i'm sure that doesn't count for anything. He's on the Red Wings...he can't actually be a very good goaltender.
Anywhere near? Yes, Howard is close to Rinne as a goaltender despite what you may think. He's not as flashy and he doesn't dive around as much but he gets the job done nearly just as well as Rinne does.
Let's not pretend that Rinne is playing behind a crap team when putting up the numbers he does. The team is front of Rinne is a defensive first type team and he has 2 top-10 defenseman helping him out....so spare me the "well Howard plays on the Red Wings which makes him look better than he really is" crap we always hear when it comes to Red Wing goalies. Rinne has every (if not more) advantage that Howard does right now and their career stats are similar:
Yet Rinne is a superstar and Howard "isn't even close". Right.
Obviously you haven't watched much Preds hockey throughout the years. All this defensive hockey and don't give up much quality chances nonsense would sound crazy if you had. Jimmy Howard has played behind one of the best team of the last 20 years. I've seen Howard play great games but he is helped out tremendously over his career thus far by playing for a powerhouse.
On the other hand Pekka has been the Preds most valuable player every year. This is his first season ever where he hasn't had to be superman for the Preds to be a winning team. Seriously last year and the year before that without Peks I seriously question if either of those teams would have made the playoffs.
There is a reason the unanimous opinion around the league is that Pekka Rinne is an elite goalie and Howard is a good goalie. Because it just happens to be that is what they are.
Let's not turn this into a goalie debate. Be honest with yourself, on paper the Preds should have an edge in goal but that is the great thing about the playoffs. It only matters who is better over that best of 7 span. Let's let the players do the talking.
After I wrote all this I realize I'm already sick of the back and forth. Can't wait for the puck to drop.
Exactly. According to most Pred's fans, Nashville is better defensively, Rinne is a superstar goalie, and Howard isn't worthy of sniffing Rinne's jockstrap. Yet 2.12 is less than 2.39 last I looked Does not compute. Something in the equation is messed up.
Goals against is not a good stat to use IMO. Save % is better but they still don't factor in the most important factors like quality of shots, offensive zone time for the opponent etc.
NO goalie in the league is going to have great stats when the other team is getting high quality chances at him over a long sample size. No goalie is simply that good.
Obviously you haven't watched much Preds hockey throughout the years. All this defensive hockey and don't give up much quality chances nonsense would sound crazy if you had. Jimmy Howard has played behind one of the best team of the last 20 years. I've seen Howard play great games but he is helped out tremendously over his career thus far by playing for a powerhouse.
On the other hand Pekka has been the Preds most valuable player every year. This is his first season ever where he hasn't had to be superman for the Preds to be a winning team. Seriously last year and the year before that without Peks I seriously question if either of those teams would have made the playoffs.
There is a reason the unanimous opinion around the league is that Pekka Rinne is an elite goalie and Howard is a good goalie. Because it just happens to be that is what they are.
Let's not turn this into a goalie debate. Be honest with yourself, on paper the Preds should have an edge in goal but that is the great thing about the playoffs. It only matters who is better over that best of 7 span. Let's let the players do the talking.
After I wrote all this I realize I'm already sick of the back and forth. Can't wait for the puck to drop.
I'm not sure what the past 20 years have to do with this year. Everyone is predicting the Preds to win this series. I imagine you are predicting a Preds win as well. Wouldn't that go against the "playing for a powerhouse" logic if the Predators are considered the better team by most? And if Jimmy Howard outproduced or at least produced roughly equivalently to Rinne this year on a team that isn't as good...how does that make Rinne unquestionably better?
Also, powerhouse my ass two season ago. The Wings barely made the playoffs that year. They were injured the entire year and Howard carried them on their backs until they got fully healthy and went on a hot streak at the end of the year.
This is the crap i'm talking about. No goalie can ever be a great goalie on the Red Wings. Spare me the woe is me crap with Rinne. He's on a very good team as well and was roughly equal to Howard this year statistically.
Rinne is paid 3 million this season and 7 million next season.
Rinne's extra talent over Howard isnt worth an extra five million dollars. Thats the problem with paying goalies that much. Most of the time the difference between elite and good just isnt that far off. Rather spend it on defensemen.
Obviously you haven't watched much Preds hockey throughout the years. All this defensive hockey and don't give up much quality chances nonsense would sound crazy if you had. Jimmy Howard has played behind one of the best team of the last 20 years. I've seen Howard play great games but he is helped out tremendously over his career thus far by playing for a powerhouse.
On the other hand Pekka has been the Preds most valuable player every year. This is his first season ever where he hasn't had to be superman for the Preds to be a winning team. Seriously last year and the year before that without Peks I seriously question if either of those teams would have made the playoffs.
There is a reason the unanimous opinion around the league is that Pekka Rinne is an elite goalie and Howard is a good goalie. Because it just happens to be that is what they are.
Let's not turn this into a goalie debate. Be honest with yourself, on paper the Preds should have an edge in goal but that is the great thing about the playoffs. It only matters who is better over that best of 7 span. Let's let the players do the talking.
After I wrote all this I realize I'm already sick of the back and forth. Can't wait for the puck to drop.
I'm sorry, but the Wings in 2010, 2011 and 2012 were NOT powerhouses. Also, they were NOT, and I'll repeat if I have to...the defensive dynamos they were for Osgood in 2008 and 2009 (I don't even have to mention the years before).
Howard has not benefited from a powerhouse like you claim. I think the Red Wing fans would know... Unless you would know more about the Red Wings than the fans who watch them 82+ games a year? Just because they compete, doesn't make them powerhouses. By that right Nashville would be a powerhouse.
They Wings were 4-5th in the league defensively this year. One HUGE reason why was Jimmy Howard. Once he got injured, they dipped. Then Lids and Ericsson went....and a slew of others, but you get the point. He ws the backbone this year.
You pred fans are underselling him this year (and his talent in general)... There's a reason why he's giving Datsyuk a run for his money this year for teams MVP. It's because he was.
Is Rinne better? Sure. But is he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Better? Not at all.
Goals against is not a good stat to use IMO. Save % is better but they still don't factor in the most important factors like quality of shots, offensive zone time for the opponent etc.
NO goalie in the league is going to have great stats when the other team is getting high quality chances at him over a long sample size. No goalie is simply that good.
Maybe i'm wrong but havent studies shown that generally quality of shots is statistically insignificant over a large sample size? Save % is very flawed as well. I'm done the graphing, and a higher shot total against is directly correlated with a higher save percentage. It's like taking a 10 question exam vs. taking a similarly difficult 30 question exam. You have more room for error on a 30 question exam and more chances to make up for a wrong answer...much like giving up a bad goal and having more shots against to raise the save percentage after that bad goal.
So anyways, are you saying that Rinne faces better quality of shots than Howard does? Are you saying Rinne's defense is front of him is worse than Detroit's? Is that what you're saying?
According to most:
Predators are the better team.
Predators have the better defense.
Rinne is much better than Howard.
Predators are the favorite to win the series.
Yet, Jimmy Howard benefits from playing behind a powerhouse and Rinne doesn't. Like I said, does not compute. Explain how that equation works?
If you're saying Rinne is better because he puts up similar stats but doesn't benefit from playing on a powerhouse like the Wings, then in essence you are saying the Red Wings are the better hockey team.
According to most:
Predators are the better team.
Predators have the better defense.
Rinne is much better than Howard.
Predators are the favorite to win the series.
Yet, Jimmy Howard benefits from playing behind a powerhouse and Rinne doesn't. Like I said, does not compute. Explain how that equation works?
I agree Rinne is the better goalie. But in the matter of how it's said. Howard? HAHAHAHAHAHAhH. It makes it sound like Howard is a scrub. Three years as a pro: Calder nominee. An All-Star. Sure He doesn't have the Vezina, but he was in the running before he was injured 3 friggin times this year.
That's a good resume' to start a career for any goalie if you ask me. People say "he plays for a good team."
How many goalies played for a bad team and won awards/fame? It doesn't happen. Good teams and good goalies go hand in hand. You notice a good goalie playing on a bad team? Put him on a good team so he can excel! Watch the greatness unfold. Otherwise.... waste of talent. Howard being on a good team = lamest excuse to cheapen his talent. Any goalie for that matter.
I agree Rinne is the better goalie. But in the matter of how it's said. Howard? HAHAHAHAHAHAhH. It makes it sound like Howard is a scrub. Three years as a pro: Calder nominee. An All-Star. Sure He doesn't have the Vezina, but he was in the running before he was injured 3 friggin times this year.
That's a good resume' to start a career for any goalie if you ask me. People say "he plays for a good team."
How many goalies played for a bad team and won awards/fame? It doesn't happen. Good teams and good goalies go hand in hand. You notice a good goalie playing on a bad team? Put him on a good team so he can excel! Watch the greatness unfold. Otherwise.... waste of talent. Howard being on a good team = lamest excuse to cheapen his talent. Any goalie for that matter.
Agreed. Don't have a problem with people thinking Rinne is better than Howard at all. It's the ones who say "it's not even close" that bother me....especially when their main reasoning is that Howard is playing on the vaunted Red Wings and Rinne is carrying his team. That's just not true at all. Sure Howard IS on a good team but last I looked the Preds had two top 10 defensemen playing in front of Rinne and the Preds are not shabby in the least bit. Howard was the main reason the Wings were able to make the playoffs two seasons ago so to say he can't carry a team is false. He was bad last year (no excuses) but is the main reason this year that the defense looks so improved.
Perhaps they are trying to convince themselves because they know they don't have the edge in net.
Does not compute. Something in the equation is messed up. Maybe Howard and Rinne are just closer than they would like to admit. Howard did basically single-handedly keep the Wings in the playoff hunt his rookie year. But hey i'm sure that doesn't count for anything. He's on the Red Wings...he can't actually be a very good goaltender.
