If we go back several years, Ed Litzenberger is another one. 3 straight 30 goal seasons and he was up there in points with Howe, Beliveau, and Bathgate. Then in 1960, at age 27, he was in a terrible car accident where he was severely injured and his wife died. Played 5 more years. Captained the Hawks to the cup in 61 and won 3 more with the Leafs. But was never the same offensive force again. There were flashes but he was never the same.
Lecavalier - it finally all clicked in 06-08. Then that hit from Cooke wrecked his shoulder, hasn't been the same since. I mean look at his shots in the hardest shot comp when Chara just beat him, hasn't been shooting like that since.
How about Pelle Lindberg? His fatal injury, which occurred off the ice, got me thinking about those who could have been HOF's had they not self inflicted their injuries. Bryan Fogarty also comes to mind. And how about those possible HOF's who just did not have the drive, passion or work ethic to sustain an NHL career? Pierre Larouche, Alexei Yashin...
Markus Naslund might be worth tossing in here. He really became a soft, ineffective perimeter player after the Moore hit. If that never happens (and the 2005 lockout never happens), then who knows? Maybe he posts another one or two elite seasons, tacks on a few more very good seasons after that, and he's at least close. Vancouver might also have gone further in the 2004 playoffs had the Moore hit never happened and had Bertuzzi never gotten himself suspended.
----
As a side note, the 2004-05 lockout really hurt a few players who will probably find themselves on the HOF bubble. St. Louis very likely would've posted an elite season that year (although he's probably in the HOF anyway). Same with Hossa, Elias, Kovalchuk, Naslund, Brad Richards, Tkachuk, maybe Palffy, depending on injuries.
Not saying it'd be a sure thing, but another top-5/10 season from some of those guys would've gotten them a fair bit closer to the Hall, and the lockout deprived them of a prime opportunity.
I'd add...
Vlad Konstantinov
Saku Koivu
Vyacheslav Kozlov
i ask this every time his name comes up. but do any russian or european hockey fans here have any memories of kozlov before his car accident? i remember scouting reports saying when he was a prospect that he was better than fedorov, mogilny, and bure when they were his age.
i'd really like to know whether this was just scouting hype, or whether he was in fact that good.
Luongo's lost a step since his groin injury, his lateral movement just isn't the same anymore.
He's a guy I think should be a surefire HOFer but given his lack of accomplishments and general whipping boy status in Vancouver I wouldn't be overly surprised if he didn't make it in, and going from far and away the best goaltender on the planet to having to rework his style and come back a step behind where he was hurts.
Lecavalier - it finally all clicked in 06-08. Then that hit from Cooke wrecked his shoulder, hasn't been the same since. I mean look at his shots in the hardest shot comp when Chara just beat him, hasn't been shooting like that since.
The emerge of Stamkos eases the pain of "losing" the elite player version of Vinny a little bit. Still, Vinny on top of his game was the best player ever to wear a Lightning jersey, IMO.
We've discussed this one a bit in a few other threads, but Pierre Turgeon. Now he obviously played long enough to compile good career numbers, but the few times he did get injured happened to coincide with seasons where he was looking at a top 3-5 finish in the scoring race. Add some more of those to his career and suddenly his peak/prime looks a lot better. Then of course, there's the Dale Hunter cheap shop which took him out right as he looked to get getting something going in the playoffs.
John Cullen 621 games 550 points, top 5 scorer in 1991. Neck injury and cancer destroyed his career. HOF? Maybe not, but he had a potential.
i would compare him to marc savard, who is another injury guy that i think had no shot the hall even if healthy. cullen had one crazy blip year on a line with two guys who were better than him, and after he left pittsburgh it was pretty clear that he was not naturally a top five scorer. a good player, a PPG+ playmaker, and an excellent faceoff man, but even before the neck injury he had already fallen quite a ways and we knew 110 was a mirage.
being deemed expendable for the "missing pieces" that put the pens over the top also seemed to do something to his confidence.
and as an undrafted college guy who looked destined to be an AHL superstar (or in those days the IHL), cullen also didn't break into the league until he was 24. hard to put up a HHOF resume when you are already so far behind your competition from the beginning.
i ask this every time his name comes up. but do any russian or european hockey fans here have any memories of kozlov before his car accident? i remember scouting reports saying when he was a prospect that he was better than fedorov, mogilny, and bure when they were his age.
i'd really like to know whether this was just scouting hype, or whether he was in fact that good.
The prospect scouting report on Kozlov (in Hockey Almanac 1993-94 published before the 94 ssn) basically says he was favorably compared to Bure and Fedorov earlier. However this was after the accident and the accident was mentioned in the report. The report notes Kozlov's inconsistency as a weakness and actually says dont expect another Bure. Again this is after the accident so perhaps Kozlov didnt develop much further from that early age when he was favorable compared to Bure and Fedorov and perhaps the accident had something to do with that. Before his first ssn in the NHL though it doesnt seem like he was expected to reach the heights of Bure and Fedorov (at least from this source).
Vladimir Konstantinov,would not only be in the HHOF, we'd be talking about him as a top 10 dman of all-time. I'd guessing Lidstrom would only have 2-4 Norris wins and Vlad would have had more.
The emerge of Stamkos eases the pain of "losing" the elite player version of Vinny a little bit. Still, Vinny on top of his game was the best player ever to wear a Lightning jersey, IMO.
I havent seen enough of Marty's 04 ssn to make a full comparison but im inclined to agree.
Lindros would be over 1800 points and 1000 assists if he was healthy.
We'd also be talking about the "big 5" instead of the "big four"
Lindros scores 800 goals? Hull, Esposito, Messier and Dionne didn't even do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
It's way too early to tell, but if Mike Green doesn't recover from his latest bout of injuries, he could join this list
Yeah he falls into the category of "wait and see". Two first team all-stars is pretty good and that can get defensemen in if they play a full season and don't collapse like Green has at the moment. He needs to just play the game like he can again. He'll win more games with his offense that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynard
It was too early to tell how the rest of his career would have gone, but I've wondered this about Pelle Lindbergh.
As good of a shot as anyone. Had a Vezina under his belt, carried a team to the final and was already 6-2 early in the 1985-'86 season. Terrible, terrible off-ice decision though.
Lindros and Bure...although they could still get in
These 2 came immediately to mind....they would've been slam dunks.
Also coming to mind was Vladimir Konstantinov.
I also think about what Orr and Neely could've done if they had stayed healthy. Orr was done essentially at 27 yrs old and Neely was done at 30 after pretty much playing on one leg for 4 years.
Mike Bossy was done at 30 also and he put up some amazing numbers.....
Vladimir Konstantinov,would not only be in the HHOF, we'd be talking about him as a top 10 dman of all-time. I'd guessing Lidstrom would only have 2-4 Norris wins and Vlad would have had more.
I'm sure you just made these numbers up off the top of your head, but Konstantinov would have already been in his mid 30s (an age by which point a lot of Russian players from the same era as him were slowing down considerably) by the time Lidstrom had won even his first Norris trophy, and would have been over 38 by the start of the post-lockout era (where Lidstrom won 4 of his 7 Norris trophies). Besides the fact that Konstantinov probably would never have developed the offensive game required to win any Norris trophy other than maybe the 1998 one (when compared the seasons by players that actually won), I'm assuming you just thought that statement sounded good without actually putting any reasoning into it.
Konstantinov's 2nd place Norris finish was, in many respects, somewhat lucky (he didn't finish on either all-star team, and Ozolinsh of all people was in 3rd), and it's debatable if he would have been a big award contender going forward as the next crop of elite two-way defensemen (Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake) was coming into their own.
This thread really depresses me with all the dominant players that could have added so much to the league (and record books) had it not been for injuries...I guess its unavoidable as part of the game though, but it still sucks.
Well I did mention Litzenberger. Another that comes to mind is Doug Barkley who was breaking out as a superstar at the time he lost an eye. I am sure there are others. Paul Meger maybe? C1958 & Killion can you think of any.
Roger Crozier maybe? He already had a Conn Smythe and 1st All-Star Team on his resume by age 24, but suffered from pancreas-related health issues throughout most of his career.
