Rinne is to be feared. He can make miracle saves and win games like Thomas. He is a lot like Kiprussof for the Flames, a one man show and backbone of the Preds. The Wings will have to have to solve him to win this series.
Rinne is to be feared. He can make miracle saves and win games like Thomas. He is a lot like Kiprussof for the Flames, a one man show and backbone of the Preds. The Wings will have to have to solve him to win this series.
How many series has Rinne stolen in his career?
This isn't a mysterious Ryan Ellis or Kiprussof (notice how we were able to handle him two years after he won the Flames the 04 series?). This is a known goaltender who isn't going to surprise anyone.
Eh, there hasn't been a goalie in years (Hasek, Roy) who has caused only a small fraction of an opposing fanbase to proclaim, "I'm not scared of him." Most fans in every series today say, "I'm not scared of him." And that's fine, since there are no Haseks or Roys in today's game. However, Rinne is a legitimately great goalie. Better than Howard. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably either hasn't watched him much or is wearing rose-tinted glasses. Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas, maybe Kiprusoff (though he seems to have declined a little).... that's just about the top tier in today's game. Howard is at least a tier below, but he does keep getting progressively better.
Eh, there hasn't been a goalie in years (Hasek, Roy) who has caused only a fraction of an opposing fanbase to proclaim, "I'm not scared of him." Most fans in every series today say, "I'm not scared of him." And that's fine, since there are no Haseks or Roys in today's game. However, Rinne is a legitimately great goalie. Better than Howard. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably either hasn't watched him much or is wearing rose-tinted glasses. Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas, maybe Kiprusoff (though he seems to have declined a little).... that's just about the top tier in today's game. Howard is at least a tier below, but he does keep getting progressively better.
What has Rinne done in the playoffs to justify that tier? I'm not even sure I can put any goaltender in that tier, considering what Thomas did last year was unlike anything we have seen since probably 2003.
Eh, there hasn't been a goalie in years (Hasek, Roy) who has caused only a small fraction of an opposing fanbase to proclaim, "I'm not scared of him." Most fans in every series today say, "I'm not scared of him." And that's fine, since there are no Haseks or Roys in today's game. However, Rinne is a legitimately great goalie. Better than Howard. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably either hasn't watched him much or is wearing rose-tinted glasses. Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas, maybe Kiprusoff (though he seems to have declined a little).... that's just about the top tier in today's game. Howard is at least a tier below, but he does keep getting progressively better.
I dont see howard as being a step below. I see them as equal.
Rinne is to be feared. He can make miracle saves and win games like Thomas. He is a lot like Kiprussof for the Flames, a one man show and backbone of the Preds. The Wings will have to have to solve him to win this series.
Did you see this quote today?
“[Rinne] is big and kind of not tall but big in the net. He’s kind of really fast too. But we shoot and get to the rebounds because the puck is so small that you have a chance to put some between something.” - Pavel Datsyuk
What has Rinne done in the playoffs to justify that tier? I'm not even sure I can put any goaltender in that tier, considering what Thomas did last year was unlike anything we have seen since probably 2003.
exactly. I think rinne is being vastly overrated by wings fans on here. i remember a bunch of people saying the same thing about bryzgalov 2 years ago and he turned out to be the coyotes weakest link. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that rinne is not going to be the reason the wings lose this series
Eh, there hasn't been a goalie in years (Hasek, Roy) who has caused only a small fraction of an opposing fanbase to proclaim, "I'm not scared of him." Most fans in every series today say, "I'm not scared of him." And that's fine, since there are no Haseks or Roys in today's game. However, Rinne is a legitimately great goalie. Better than Howard. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably either hasn't watched him much or is wearing rose-tinted glasses. Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas, maybe Kiprusoff (though he seems to have declined a little).... that's just about the top tier in today's game. Howard is at least a tier below, but he does keep getting progressively better.
Last 3 seasons combined (Since Jimmy became full time NHLer):
Rinne: 28.71 shots against per game, 2.34 GAA and .922 S%
Howard: 28.27 shots against per game, 2.40 GAA and .917 S%
Playoffs:
Rinne: 29 shots against per game, 2.60 GAA and .908 S%
Howard: 32.6 shots against per game, 2.63 GAA and .919 S%
So I ask again. Why is Rinne considered elite and Howard is just average? Similar caliber of defense in front of them (Don't tell me having Suter/Weber playing in front of him doesn't help just as much if not more as having Lidstrom, etc.) Similar shots against per game. Both have accomplished nothing in the playoffs. Stop telling me crap like "he's elite, anyone who thinks he isn't hasn't watched him or is wearing rose colored glasses." WHY?WHY is he much better? Tell me WHY. What is the reasoning behind Rinne being considered significantly better than Jimmy Howard?
What has Rinne done in the playoffs to justify that tier? I'm not even sure I can put any goaltender in that tier, considering what Thomas did last year was unlike anything we have seen since probably 2003.
Also take into account the team runs an entirely defensive system and has the best top pairing D combination in the league.
Yet despite these facts, we're supposed to believe it's all Rinne. Just my guess, but put anybody behind that team and they put up amazing numbers: ala Phoenix and St. Louis goalies.
Sure, Rinne is a strong goalie, but let's not ignore the rest of the team. The key to beating Rinne, like most NHL goalies, is getting 2nd chances. Nashville eliminates 2nd chances really well.
The goal was a thing of beauty. However, it also took David Legwand completely blowing his coverage on one of the passes, and the normally superb Ryan Suter somehow managing not to find someway to get in Datsyuk's way. Just like in the Detroit/Chicago game Saturday, we left the best player on the ice all alone, making you say "WTF were they thinking?"
I'm not going to go with the "you only won because we let you" line, but you have to admit Nashville completely dropped the ball. Still, it was a thing of beauty. That's what separates Datsyuk from a lot of other skilled forwards - when the other team makes the slightest mistakes, he can make them pay.
The same thing could be said about the wonderful Radulov goal everybody is clamoring over. You know, the blown coverage by the three forwards (Detroits 4th line)? Detroit dropped the ball there too. A lot of arguments can go back and forth with blown defensive coverage. It's hockey, and that's all that can be said about that.
The end of the day is Datsyuk converted, and it was a skilled play. You can't take away from the play, no matter how nicely you want to put it, by saying Legwand played it wrong.
Zetterberg, Lidstrom and Datsyuk are all superstars, and they will burn players everyday and all day given even the smallest of inch on the ice (when playing on the same line...which is hardly ever the case anymore). Give credit where credit is due.
Also take into account the team runs an entirely defensive system and has the best top pairing D combination in the league.
Yet despite these facts, we're supposed to believe it's all Rinne. Just my guess, but put anybody behind that team and they put up amazing numbers: ala Phoenix and St. Louis goalies.
Sure, Rinne is a strong goalie, but let's not ignore the rest of the team. The key to beating Rinne, like most NHL goalies, is getting 2nd chances. Nashville eliminates 2nd chances really well.
My feeling, too. I think them throwing $7m per at Rinne was an insanely bad management of their resources, unless they're willing to significantly up their yearly spending.
Some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees.
Rinne is a very good goalie, definitely top echelon in the NHL, on a team with two of the best defensemen in the league, that also added some sauce to their forward group this season.
They're younger, bigger, faster and probably hungrier.
My feeling, too. I think them throwing $7m per at Rinne was an insanely bad management of their resources, unless they're willing to significantly up their yearly spending.
I was surprised the Preds threw that much at a goalie, but their ownership has said they intend to spend more. They've turned the corner financially too.
I was surprised the Preds threw that much at a goalie, but their ownership has said they intend to spend more. They've turned the corner financially too.
Unless they're willing to go $60+ million, I have a hard time seeing how Rinne's deal works if they also plan on locking in Weber and Suter for the long haul. The only way the Wings made it work, in a non-cap world, was having Ilitch willing to blow around $80 million for a few years, and lose a good chunk in years the Wings didn't make a good run. I don't think Nashville's ownership group is interested in such a scenario. I don't think the majority of owners would be interested in that, if they could avoid it.
Also, goalie just isn't a position that's hard to get a decent starter at. If you can't find a decent starter for less than $4-5m, you're doing something wrong.
Some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees.
Rinne is a very good goalie, definitely top echelon in the NHL, on a team with two of the best defensemen in the league, that also added some sauce to their forward group this season.
They're younger, bigger, faster and probably hungrier.
So why do the Red Wings even need to play the games, we know the outcome, right?
In all seriousness, if the Wings win this series, they'll be ready to face any other opponent, which is a great thing to have. If they can't beat the Predators, they can't beat Vancouver, etc.
Last 3 seasons combined (Since Jimmy became full time NHLer):
Rinne: 28.71 shots against per game, 2.34 GAA and .922 S%
Howard: 28.27 shots against per game, 2.40 GAA and .917 S%
Playoffs:
Rinne: 29 shots against per game, 2.60 GAA and .908 S%
Howard: 32.6 shots against per game, 2.63 GAA and .919 S%
So I ask again. Why is Rinne considered elite and Howard is just average? Similar caliber of defense in front of them (Don't tell me having Suter/Weber playing in front of him doesn't help just as much if not more as having Lidstrom, etc.) Similar shots against per game. Both have accomplished nothing in the playoffs. Stop telling me crap like "he's elite, anyone who thinks he isn't hasn't watched him or is wearing rose colored glasses." WHY?WHY is he much better? Tell me WHY. What is the reasoning behind Rinne being considered significantly better than Jimmy Howard?
I never said Howard was average, bud. I said they were pretty much even. Rinne has the slight advantage though(THIS REGULAR SEASON) In my eyes they are both elite goalies.
I never said Howard was average, bud. I said they were pretty much even. Rinne has the slight advantage though(THIS REGULAR SEASON) In my eyes they are both elite goalies.
I never said you said Howard was average BUD
That post of mine was a response to Jaster...which is why I quoted his post and not a post of yours....
And although Jaster did not specifically say it either..he certainly implied it by saying "Howard is at least a tier below Rinne." At least, implying 1 tier if not more. 1-2 tiers below Rinne would be around the average to above average range.
This isn't a mysterious Ryan Ellis or Kiprussof (notice how we were able to handle him two years after he won the Flames the 04 series?). This is a known goaltender who isn't going to surprise anyone.
Errr? I think you mean Dan Ellis. Ryan Ellis is our defenseman.
Anyways, I always fear playing the Wings. I have full confidence in our Preds team though. It should be a fantastic series.
I was surprised the Preds threw that much at a goalie, but their ownership has said they intend to spend more. They've turned the corner financially too.
Spend more != spending smart. Rinne is definitely a top goalie in the league, but spending 7m on a goalie will be a reason they're always going to be a lesser contender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu
Some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees.
Rinne is a very good goalie, definitely top echelon in the NHL, on a team with two of the best defensemen in the league, that also added some sauce to their forward group this season.
They're younger, bigger, faster and probably hungrier.
We've heard that many times over the years. This is probably Nashville's best team ever, but they're still the same team they've always been. Very good goalie, good team defense and strong special teams. Enough to beat the Wings? Sure. But an overwhelming favorite? Nope.
I picked Wings in 6 but it could go either way. The fact that some people are afraid of Andrei Kostitsyn is kinda funny, though.
I love your optimism but alas, one playoff series win in your teams history doesn't give you a wealth of playoff experience, nor does adding Hal Gill.
The Red Wings projected line up for Wednesday night has 1402 playoff games of experience The entire Preds Roster has played 600 and that includes 150+ from Gaustad Gill and Kostitsyn.
I think we may have the edge here
It's not a question of who has more experience - if the more experienced team won every series, the Wings would be on a 15-Cup winning streak.
The question is whether the Preds have enough experience to win this series. We've seen much better Wings teams lose to much less experienced teams in the playoffs. Experience is not a factor in this series IMO - it's not a negative for the Preds and it's not a positive for the Wings.
The Preds' additions will help them. Particularly Gill, who has the mystical Playoff Cloak of Interference Invisibility that completely shields him from the view of the refs while he hooks, holds, and otherwise obstructs opposing players. And I don't want anyone to think I'm claiming an anti-Wing refereeing bias - he's done this over multiple seasons, for several different teams in both conferences and against any number of different teams. For whatever reason, the refs let this guy do whatever he wants come playoff time. Not good for the Wings, since they have to play against him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86
I don't get why Rinne is considered an elite goaltender.
Step one would be to watch him play. I don't know how else to explain that statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86
Why though? Similar career statistics to Howard. How is that elite? Instead of saying it's absurd why don't you give some reasoning?
They both play behind good defenses....Rinne arguably having two top 10 defensemen on his team in front of him. So if they both play behind good defenses and Rinne is "elite" and Howard isn't "elite" why are their stats so similar and why has Howard been better in the playoffs?
Do you also believe that Brodeur is just an average goalie that's had a great defense his whole career?
I like Howard a lot, but Rinne is a better goalie. Not miles and miles better, but he's better by a solid margin. If he played for a better team the last 5 years, he'd have a much better playoff resume than he currently does. This isn't a "hot goalie" or a "ridiculously overpadded goalie" situation - he's really, really good, almost all the time.
Add Howard's recent groin issues to that ledger and a backup that can't stop a beach ball, and there's really no rational argument to be made for the Wings having the edge in net here. And this is coming from one of Howard's biggest supporters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Fiend
He might steal a game or two, but he won't steal the series.
If these were the 2002 Wings, they could afford for him to steal a game or two and still win the series.
These teams are evenly matched and Nashville has home ice, so it's the Wings that need to steal one and they can't really afford for Rinne to steal one.
Spend more != spending smart. Rinne is definitely a top goalie in the league, but spending 7m on a goalie will be a reason they're always going to be a lesser contender.
We've heard that many times over the years. This is probably Nashville's best team ever, but they're still the same team they've always been. Very good goalie, good team defense and strong special teams. Enough to beat the Wings? Sure. But an overwhelming favorite? Nope.
I picked Wings in 6 but it could go either way. The fact that some people are afraid of Andrei Kostitsyn is kinda funny, though.
No, I still disagree. Your favorite GM once said you put your money in a goalie if you have one of the top 4-5 guys in the NHL. Otherwise, you're better off spending it on defense. Well, thanks to the way the team has developed, they've got both this year. Also, unlike most earlier versions of the Preds, they've added some very good forwards (Kostitsyns (sp), Fisher) and now also have Radulov back. It's like one of those planetary alignments.
I was surprised the Preds threw that much at a goalie, but their ownership has said they intend to spend more. They've turned the corner financially too.
I think they felt like they could piece the rest of the team together if they could stay great in net for the next decade, even at a high price.
Also, when you decide to spend more money you have to find people willing to take your money. Nashville hasn't been a popular free agent destination thus far, but when players see the commitment to Rinne that perception might start to change.
Do you also believe that Brodeur is just an average goalie that's had a great defense his whole career?
I like Howard a lot, but Rinne is a better goalie. Not miles and miles better, but he's better by a solid margin. If he played for a better team the last 5 years, he'd have a much better playoff resume than he currently does. This isn't a "hot goalie" or a "ridiculously overpadded goalie" situation - he's really, really good, almost all the time.
Add Howard's recent groin issues to that ledger and a backup that can't stop a beach ball, and there's really no rational argument to be made for the Wings having the edge in net here. And this is coming from one of Howard's biggest supporters.
come on now the brodeur comparison is terrible. rinne has 4 years under his belt and 18 playoff games. brodeur has almost 20 years and 180 playoff games in the bank. brodeur is proven, rinne is not
and how can you assume that rinne would have a "much" better playoff resume if he had better teams in front of him. fact is the playoffs are a completely different animal than the regular season and in the 18 playoff games (granted small sample size) he has been in, his numbers are mediocre. He's going to have to prove it to me before i consider him much better than howard by a considerable margin
