HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Speculation: Grigorenko to Edmonton. Is that even fair?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-08-2012, 03:09 PM
  #151
victor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
They have picked 7 D in the 2 drafts, including 1 in the first round and 2 in the 2nd round
I'd bet they'll draft the BPA. There are only seven slots for defenders, with five taken for next season (Smid-Petry, Shultz-Whitney, and Sutton, Peckham, Potter in reserve.)

In 2006, Edmonton took Petry and Peckham - just beginning their careers.

Since then, Edmonton's drafted:
Alex Plante(2007-15) - AHL all-star team this year
Johan Motin(2008-103) - bust
Jordan Bendfeld (2008-193) - bust
Troy Hesketh (2009-71) - bust
Kyle Bigos (2009-99) - NCAA, prospect.
Martin Marincin (2010-46) WHL, prospect.
Jeremie Blain (2010-91) QMJHL, prospect.
Brandon Davidson (2010-162) WHL, prospect.
Oscar Klefbom (2011-19) SEL, top prospect.
David Musil (2011-31) WHL, prospect.
Dillon Simpson (2011-92) WHL, prospect.
Martin Gernat (2011-122) WHL, prospect.

I'd bet that any desire to draft for need will be tempered with the fact the the NHL core is young, and there are a number of players currently in the system that are performing at a high level.

victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:11 PM
  #152
LeafOfBread
van Dreamsdyk
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
I'd bet they'll draft the BPA. There are only seven slots for defenders, with five taken for next season (Smid-Petry, Shultz-Whitney, and Sutton, Peckham, Potter in reserve.)

In 2006, Edmonton took Petry and Peckham - just beginning their careers.

Since then, Edmonton's drafted:
Alex Plante(2007-15) - AHL all-star team this year
Johan Motin(2008-103) - bust
Jordan Bendfeld (2008-193) - bust
Troy Hesketh (2009-71) - bust
Kyle Bigos (2009-99) - NCAA, prospect.
Martin Marincin (2010-46) WHL, prospect.
Jeremie Blain (2010-91) QMJHL, prospect.
Brandon Davidson (2010-162) WHL, prospect.
Oscar Klefbom (2011-19) SEL, top prospect.
David Musil (2011-31) WHL, prospect.
Dillon Simpson (2011-92) WHL, prospect.
Martin Gernat (2011-122) WHL, prospect.

I'd bet that any desire to draft for need will be tempered with the fact the the NHL core is young, and there are a number of players currently in the system that are performing at a high level.
None of those guys are really the same calibre as Murray though

LeafOfBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:13 PM
  #153
5RingsAndABeer
John MacKinnon Fan
 
5RingsAndABeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 11,722
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grub View Post
If Edmonton had picked Seguin and Landeskog, they would be much better now.
No they wouldn't have. Look at the production of Hall and RNH compared to Seguin and Landeskog.

Hall - 49/46/95 in 126 GP (0.75 PPG)
Seguin - 40/49/89 in 155 GP (0.57 PPG)

Hall (soph) - 27/26/53 in 61 GP (0.87 PPG)
Seguin (soph) - 29/38/67 in 81 GP (0.83 PPG)

RNH - 18/34/52 in 62 GP (0.84 PPG)
Landeskog - 22/30/52 in 82 GP (0.63 PPG)

So no, they wouldn't have gotten "much better"...and you'd have to be a pretty delusional to believe that.

5RingsAndABeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #154
victor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
None of those guys are really the same calibre as Murray though
I would say that Klefbom could be. WJC all star team, playing in the SEL at 18.

victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #155
hfboardsuser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Unfortunately Murray's team got swept in the first round, so there's probably going to be rampant speculation right up until draft day.
Im some ways, Murray's situation is advantageous. He played out of his mind and at a greater offensive clip than ever before in his career. That will be the last memory scouts have of the guy heading into the Draft, rather than a very likely letdown that would have occurred in later rounds as his numbers fell back to earth.

hfboardsuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:22 PM
  #156
FakeKidPoker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,679
vCash: 500
I wonder what kind of deal Hall will sign.

He has been good for sure.. but it is not like he has lite the world on fire and been as good as guys like Tavares, Stamkos, Kane when they came in.

Could the Oilers get him signed long term for hell maybe even under 5?

and yes Oilers need D bad... Maybe trade this years pick for some solid D-man?

FakeKidPoker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:25 PM
  #157
hfboardsuser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
I wonder what kind of deal Hall will sign.

He has been good for sure.. but it is not like he has lite the world on fire and been as good as guys like Tavares, Stamkos, Kane when they came in.

Could the Oilers get him signed long term for hell maybe even under 5?

and yes Oilers need D bad... Maybe trade this years pick for some solid D-man?
I think Hall will get 5. Eberle, 5.5 or 6 depending on next year. RNH is the one who could out-earn all of them; there's a very real possibility he hits 80 points in 12-13, and even more in the final year of his ELC. If Nugent-Hopkins is a 90+ point player at 20, you basically give him what he wants and be happy about it.

hfboardsuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:30 PM
  #158
sniper81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 1,483
vCash: 500
if im edmonton i take dumba or murray and solidify the D. only time will tell

sniper81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #159
victor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
I wonder what kind of deal Hall will sign.

He has been good for sure.. but it is not like he has lite the world on fire and been as good as guys like Tavares, Stamkos, Kane when they came in.

Could the Oilers get him signed long term for hell maybe even under 5?

and yes Oilers need D bad... Maybe trade this years pick for some solid D-man?
Huh?

GP G A Pts +/- GPG PPG
2009-2010 ISLANDERS 82 24 30 54 -15 0.293 0.659
2010-2011 ISLANDERS 79 29 38 67 -16 0.367 0.848

2010-2011 OILERS 65 22 20 42 -9 0.338 0.646
2011-2012 OILERS 61 27 26 53 -3 0.443 0.869

Seems pretty comparable.


That said, they would be better off trading a proven asset (Eberle, Hall, RNH) than trading off a young pick, at this point, due to the perceived risk associated with the pick.

What kind of defender could you get for Eberle?

victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 03:54 PM
  #160
Homesick
Registered User
 
Homesick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,798
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
So Edmonton is probable to get the 2nd pick and would be able to draft Grigorenko. Eberle, Hall, RNH, Grigorenko... Shouldn't there be a rule against getting top picks more than 3 yrs in a row? I'm not an EDM hater or something. And I honestly expected them to do better this season. I was just thinking if that is a fair situation by now.
Pittsburgh most recently had -
2002 Whitney #5
2003 Fleury #1
2004 Malkin #2
2005 Crosby #1
2006 Staal #2

I don't hold it against Pittsburgh. They were so bad that they couldnt attract free-agents, and had ownership issues. Edmonton can't attract because they have been so bad, and geography issues.

Homesick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:05 PM
  #161
Cam98
Registered User
 
Cam98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
if im edmonton i take dumba or murray and solidify the D. only time will tell
if im edmonton id take grigorenko =)

Cam98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:12 PM
  #162
bsmith14
Registered User
 
bsmith14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,581
vCash: 500
I posted this in the Grigs thread..

Klefbom and Marincin have top 3 potential imo with Marincin the greater longshot. Musil, Davidson, Blain look to be solid mid/bottom pairing guys and Gernat is a wildcard who could potentially run an NHL powerplay one day or bust completely. Add Smid and Petry who are only 24 and 26, Edmontons defense prospects are deeper than its forwards.

Hamilton, Pitlick, Cornet dont have much more than 3rd line potential, Omark cant cut it in the top 6. Add that those players and PRV, Hartikainen are all wingers and I'd say our need for a Center behind RNH is greater than defence. Id be very happy if MacGregor fet Grigorenko was the guy.

With that said you always take the BPA for down the road. If thats D you take him, if its a C...even better. Same goes for winger obv

Grigorenkos vision will make him a real player in the bigs. The Oil need a number 2 center that protects the puck and dishes out to guys like Hall, Hemsky, PRV, Hartikainen and Ebs.

bsmith14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:12 PM
  #163
SauceHockey
Retired
 
SauceHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: p
Country: Tokelau
Posts: 4,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
What happened to deslaurier? Bring him back, he was actually pretty good.
Anaheim

SauceHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:15 PM
  #164
Tyrolean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Austria
Posts: 6,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grub View Post
If Edmonton had picked Seguin and Landeskog, they would be much better now.
I doubt that. Seguin has a strong team to support him and wasn't that productive in his 1st year. RNH has a higher ceiling than Landeskog. They made the right choices.

Tyrolean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:22 PM
  #165
SaskOil*
u mad
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Saskabush
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grub View Post
If Edmonton had picked Seguin and Landeskog, they would be much better now.
And if by that you mean drafting #1 again this year, I agree.

SaskOil* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:25 PM
  #166
Homesick
Registered User
 
Homesick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,798
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOCKEYGOON View Post
Edmonton Oilers recent history dictates that they'll stockpile talent for years and years.... make one good run in the playoffs then start the process over again.
I'd love to hear about all of these top 5 picks the Oilers had between 1991-2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Stop. Nobody is giving a top 4 dman for Gagner -- it would be done already. The kid is a tweener -- too small for the bottom 6 -- and doesn't score enough to be in the top 6 regularly.

There should be a rule against this. Gagner would have been sent packing by now if there was a luke warm dman coming back.
How many centres 22 years old or younger outscore him....even under 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
tell me, which d-man did Pittsburgh or Chicago pick in the top 5?
Whitney and Barker....thanks for coming out

Homesick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #167
Yeah15
2nd Tier Fan
 
Yeah15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
I hope if they draft Grigorenko then it turns out that he's really a 23 yr old and turns out to be a bust in the future.
Who openly hopes a prospect will bust? Your hatred for the Oilers is beyond hilarious and unnecessary.

Yeah15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:30 PM
  #168
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Sauce View Post
It's fine. When ELCs are up, let them deal with that.
Hall 36/6yrs
Eberle 36/6yrs
RNH 36/6yrs
Grig 36/6yrs

6 million cap hit x 4 guys = 24 mil tied up in your forward core? Can't complain about that.

To all those saying we need a d-man with this draft, take a look at the forwards we have past the big 3, then look at our d-core in the system and try again.

Mr Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:30 PM
  #169
Yeah15
2nd Tier Fan
 
Yeah15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grub View Post
If Edmonton had picked Seguin and Landeskog, they would be much better now.
Care to explain why?

Yeah15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:32 PM
  #170
tsnTpoint
Registered User
 
tsnTpoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'd love to hear about all of these top 5 picks the Oilers had between 1991-2005

How many centres 22 years old or younger outscore him....even under 40

Whitney and Barker....thanks for coming out

Classic example of why I don't want d-men with the pick. I want Grigs

tsnTpoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:35 PM
  #171
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Classic example of why I don't want d-men with the pick. I want Grigs
If you look at the top D-men in the NHL, more often than not they're guys that were selected later, developed slowly, without any pressure of being a high pick and stepping in right away. We have Klefbom, Musil and Marincin all developing slowly, we developed Petry slowly. We now need another centre to solidify our forward group.

Mr Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:38 PM
  #172
Homesick
Registered User
 
Homesick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,798
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Classic example of why I don't want d-men with the pick. I want Grigs
Plus if you look at the top 30 D scorers in the league(poor example to rate a dman I know) Very few of them are taken in the top 10. Alot are taken after the first round.

Homesick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:38 PM
  #173
bsmith14
Registered User
 
bsmith14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
If you look at the top D-men in the NHL, more often than not they're guys that were selected later, developed slowly, without any pressure of being a high pick and stepping in right away. We have Klefbom, Musil and Marincin all developing slowly, we developed Petry slowly. We now need another centre to solidify our forward group.
Exactly. I think Klefbom can be an Alex Edler type if we are patient

bsmith14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:42 PM
  #174
Homesick
Registered User
 
Homesick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,798
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
If you look at the top D-men in the NHL, more often than not they're guys that were selected later, developed slowly, without any pressure of being a high pick and stepping in right away. We have Klefbom, Musil and Marincin all developing slowly, we developed Petry slowly. We now need another centre to solidify our forward group.
Gernat had an excellent rookie season in the WHL this year. Blaine and Davidson had good seasons this year and will be making the jump to pro next season.

If Stu says Murray is the BPA then I'm pretty happy with that. Otherwise it seems that Grigorenko has been the consensus #2 pick since last summer

Homesick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2012, 04:51 PM
  #175
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,387
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
If you look at the top D-men in the NHL, more often than not they're guys that were selected later, developed slowly, without any pressure of being a high pick and stepping in right away. We have Klefbom, Musil and Marincin all developing slowly, we developed Petry slowly. We now need another centre to solidify our forward group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Plus if you look at the top 30 D scorers in the league(poor example to rate a dman I know) Very few of them are taken in the top 10. Alot are taken after the first round.
That's a strategy that may work for other teams, but how is it working for the Oilers? You can talk about Klefbom, Musil, Marincin and Gernat all you want but for now, they're only prospects, so the jury's out.

Going back to 2002, Edmonton has only developped three legitimate NHL defensemen from any round - Peckham, Petry and Greene. Syvret and Chorney are there, but look like AHL tweeners at best. And none of the aforementioned 3 guys are approaching #1 D status any time soon.

So why say "we can always develop a defenseman from the later rounds" if your organization hasn't proved it can do that competently yet? Why not just take the shortcut of drafting the best one in the entire draft, which the Oilers are in a prime position to do?

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.