HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Florida Panthers
Notices

The big question: Which goaltender starts game 1?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-09-2012, 04:08 AM
  #51
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
Clarkson loves to mix it up and don't forget Janssen, who flies around sometimes recklessly hitting anyone. If Boulton plays, which I doubt he would, that would make three tough guys that I don't think any of our guys can handle. I really don't want Jovo or Guds breaking a hand fighting a fourth line banger. I agree with Clemmer. He has been pretty good against NJ, but in a long series that may run out, so Theo will be needed at some point.
I think Theo will thrive if he goes in as a back up. It's just a matter of when and where with Clemmenson. He's played well down the stretch but he has zero playoff experience. I don't want Theo to go threw what he did in Washington which is why I want Clemmenson to start game 1. I would still be happy if Dineen goes back to him which I expect will happen but I'll be gripping my chair till I know Theodore has settled down.

nhlfan9191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 08:17 AM
  #52
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 7,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I think Theo will thrive if he goes in as a back up. It's just a matter of when and where with Clemmenson. He's played well down the stretch but he has zero playoff experience. I don't want Theo to go threw what he did in Washington which is why I want Clemmenson to start game 1. I would still be happy if Dineen goes back to him which I expect will happen but I'll be gripping my chair till I know Theodore has settled down.
What you may be disregarding is clemmer is a lifetime backup and better prepared to come in off the bench. Dineen will certainly take that into the equation.

As I said earlier in the thread, let's see how practice goes....

adam graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 09:32 AM
  #53
Markstrom Rules
Sup
 
Markstrom Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 16,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
It shouldn't be about who earned it though. It should be about which goalie gives you the best chance to win, and going off of recent play, Clemmer is that goalie. He's been fantastic in his last few starts whereas Theo has been as shaky as he's been all season. I honestly don't think it messes with Theo's head at all either. I think he'd realize it's what is best for the team, and he'd be ready to go if Clemmer cools off.
That's where we differ. I think it would shake his confidence a bit. That's precisely why Dineen put him right back in after he pulled him in Washington. He said, "I'm not a goalie-puller", and from what he was saying he doesn't like the consequences associated with that.

I do think Theo gives us the best chance to win. I think you have to give him the chance to redeem himself. He's been our guy all season and the hope is that he comes back ready to take care of business, as he's always done.

Markstrom Rules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 11:12 AM
  #54
CatWoman34
Fool on the Hill
 
CatWoman34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 303
vCash: 500
I think you have to put Theo in net.

For me - it's a clean slate when the playoffs start. And therefore, you go with your starter.

I know the stats, and I know Clemmer's record as of late, but at the end of that who do you truly think puts you in a situation to win. To me - it's Theo. And I think that's who Dineen starts on Friday.

CatWoman34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 11:34 AM
  #55
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
What you may be disregarding is clemmer is a lifetime backup and better prepared to come in off the bench. Dineen will certainly take that into the equation.

As I said earlier in the thread, let's see how practice goes....
The only reason I'm nervous is because Theo had a similar stretch to end the season with Washington in 2009 and he ended up stinking out the joint in game 1 and sitting on the bench the rest of the playoffs. Trust me, I'm the biggest Theo fan boy ever but I also want what's best for the team. Ugh, I just wish Theo would have kept going the way he had been all year. Worst time to slump. Especially with Clemmenson playing over his head. There's probably 90% chance Theodore still starts. Dineen really believe's in him which is great for his rebuilding his confidence.

nhlfan9191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 12:28 PM
  #56
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Go with the hot hand until that hand proves it isn't hot anymore!

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 12:32 PM
  #57
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
That's not Theo's fault. The Panthers have played pretty badly the last few weeks. I think everyone knew that the Panthers would come out like gangbusters against Carolina to redeem themselves in front of their home fans. If Theo was in net, I think we still win that game. No offense to Clemmer, who played a very good game.


The Panthers haven't exactly played any better in front of Clemmer recently and he's found a way to win games.

I'm not so sure we beat Carolina without Clemmer's goaltending that night. He made some great saves. Saves that Theodore didn't make against Winnipeg on a night that the team also scored 4 goals for him.

For what it's worth, I'm not bashing Theo; he was consistent all year for us. I just don't see the big deal about going with the hot goalie who just so happens to own the opponent we're about to face. If it doesn't work out, go back to Theo in game 2.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 12:36 PM
  #58
Sports24-7
Registered User
 
Sports24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
That's where we differ. I think it would shake his confidence a bit. That's precisely why Dineen put him right back in after he pulled him in Washington. He said, "I'm not a goalie-puller", and from what he was saying he doesn't like the consequences associated with that.

I do think Theo gives us the best chance to win. I think you have to give him the chance to redeem himself. He's been our guy all season and the hope is that he comes back ready to take care of business, as he's always done.
If that's something Dineen is actually worried about, then maybe I can understand starting Theo, but I think Theo is enough of a professional that he could handle it and would understand. And if he does, to me this shouldn't even be a discussion about who should start because Theo has not always taken care of business. He very nearly blew our shot to win the division at the end of the year. I love what he's done for us, and we would not be in the playoffs without him, but again, you can ride a hot goalie to a nice playoff run and Clemmer is playing lights out right now. There's a reason he was in net against Carolina, and he was probably the biggest reason they won that game.

Sports24-7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 01:37 PM
  #59
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
If that's something Dineen is actually worried about, then maybe I can understand starting Theo, but I think Theo is enough of a professional that he could handle it and would understand. And if he does, to me this shouldn't even be a discussion about who should start because Theo has not always taken care of business. He very nearly blew our shot to win the division at the end of the year. I love what he's done for us, and we would not be in the playoffs without him, but again, you can ride a hot goalie to a nice playoff run and Clemmer is playing lights out right now. There's a reason he was in net against Carolina, and he was probably the biggest reason they won that game.
Give me a break. Theodore started in Washington because we had a chance to put the caps down for good. Are you trying to say Dineen was playing who he felt was the weaker goalie against the caps who were chasing us for the division so Clemmenson could close it out on the final game? Clemm made one real nice save on a rap around but other than that it was one routine save after another. People need to comparing everything to Theodore's last three games.


Last edited by nhlfan9191: 04-09-2012 at 01:46 PM.
nhlfan9191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 03:02 PM
  #60
Sports24-7
Registered User
 
Sports24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Give me a break. Theodore started in Washington because we had a chance to put the caps down for good. Are you trying to say Dineen was playing who he felt was the weaker goalie against the caps who were chasing us for the division so Clemmenson could close it out on the final game? Clemm made one real nice save on a rap around but other than that it was one routine save after another. People need to comparing everything to Theodore's last three games.
Where did I say anything about Dineen starting Theo against Washington because he was the weaker player? Where did I say anything about the Caps game at all in that post? I honestly didn't think Theo should have been starting that game and he proved me right. Dineen went with Clemmer in the last game though for a reason and it wasn't to give Theo a rest before the playoffs. I'm not knocking Theo. He had a great year. But this is the NHL playoffs where you go with the guy who's playing the best at the moment and that's Clemmer. People should not overlook Theo's last 3 games because that's the way he's playing right now. I'd rather give the hot goalie a chance to stay hot (especially when his record against the team we're playing is sparkling) that take a chance on the goalie that isn't playing as well.

Sports24-7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #61
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
Where did I say anything about Dineen starting Theo against Washington because he was the weaker player? Where did I say anything about the Caps game at all in that post? I honestly didn't think Theo should have been starting that game and he proved me right. Dineen went with Clemmer in the last game though for a reason and it wasn't to give Theo a rest before the playoffs. I'm not knocking Theo. He had a great year. But this is the NHL playoffs where you go with the guy who's playing the best at the moment and that's Clemmer. People should not overlook Theo's last 3 games because that's the way he's playing right now. I'd rather give the hot goalie a chance to stay hot (especially when his record against the team we're playing is sparkling) that take a chance on the goalie that isn't playing as well.
Clemmenson knew a month ago he was starting either the Washington or Carolina game. That's the way a coach handles his goalies to end a season. I'm 100% sure Dineen didn't start Clemmenson because he thought Theodore couldn't beat a weak Carolina team. It was to get both goalies in games before the playoffs. Clemmenson is not this teams number 1 goalie, even if he starts game 1.

nhlfan9191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 12:00 AM
  #62
Sports24-7
Registered User
 
Sports24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Clemmenson knew a month ago he was starting either the Washington or Carolina game. That's the way a coach handles his goalies to end a season. I'm 100% sure Dineen didn't start Clemmenson because he thought Theodore couldn't beat a weak Carolina team. It was to get both goalies in games before the playoffs. Clemmenson is not this teams number 1 goalie, even if he starts game 1.
Where is there proof that Clemmenson knew that? I don't think you can say you're 100% sure Dineen didn't start Clemmenson because he thought he would give them the best chance to win. In fact, I'm pretty certain that's exactly why he started him in that game. If he didn't, he isn't doing his job as a coach.

And this isn't a debate over who the #1 goalie is. It's clearly Theo. Look at his starts vs Clemmer's. But who the #1 goalie is doesn't matter in the playoffs. What matters is who is playing better. Again, that's Clemmer.

Sports24-7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 12:17 AM
  #63
Erick
Registered User
 
Erick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Broward, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 11,583
vCash: 500
Yeah, Dineen went with Clemmer Saturday because he felt Clemmer gave the team a better chance to win that night based on their recent play.

That wasn't an either/or pre-determined decision.

Had Theo been playing well, he would've gotten the game against Carolina because that game was significant. I don't think that had anything to do with getting Clemmer playing time before the playoffs.

Erick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 12:38 AM
  #64
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Yeah, Dineen went with Clemmer Saturday because he felt Clemmer gave the team a better chance to win that night based on their recent play.

That wasn't an either/or pre-determined decision.

Had Theo been playing well, he would've gotten the game against Carolina because that game was significant. I don't think that had anything to do with getting Clemmer playing time before the playoffs.
Clemmenson has been solid for a couple of weeks and regardless of importance of the game, Dineen would have felt Clemmenson could pulled out a win against the canes.

nhlfan9191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 08:51 AM
  #65
zeroG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,177
vCash: 500
dineen played clemmer because he felt clemmer gave us the best chance to win. that was not predetermined. coaches certainly look ahead do some planning but a) it's in pencil and b) not when you're talking about what essentially are playoff games. you play your best, most confident guys when the division is on the line. if theo's game was where it needed to be, he would've been in net.

zeroG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 09:39 AM
  #66
Panthers Rock
Moderator
Slumpin' Like A Soph
 
Panthers Rock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Winter Springs, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 5,531
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Panthers Rock
Honestly, Theo deserves the chance to prove he's the guy. He has all the experience, hasn't even lost a 1st round. Remember this is a best of 7, if he falters we can always turn to Clem.

__________________

Florida Panthers: 2014 NHL Entry Draft Lottery...Winners?
Panthers Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 11:06 AM
  #67
adam graves
Panthers 17yr sth
 
adam graves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: south florida
Country: United States
Posts: 7,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Honestly, Theo deserves the chance to prove he's the guy. He has all the experience, hasn't even lost a 1st round. Remember this is a best of 7, if he falters we can always turn to Clem.
Im leaning toward this, but leaving a window for KD to decide over the next couple of practices.

The man is a 3x captain, i have full faith in his decision choice.

adam graves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 03:57 PM
  #68
GrkFlyersFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
Where is there proof that Clemmenson knew that? I don't think you can say you're 100% sure Dineen didn't start Clemmenson because he thought he would give them the best chance to win. In fact, I'm pretty certain that's exactly why he started him in that game. If he didn't, he isn't doing his job as a coach.

And this isn't a debate over who the #1 goalie is. It's clearly Theo. Look at his starts vs Clemmer's. But who the #1 goalie is doesn't matter in the playoffs. What matters is who is playing better. Again, that's Clemmer.
Because it's customary for the starter to take a day of rest before the playoffs, usually either the last or second to last game. With a playoff spot locked up, Dineen trusted Clemmensen to get a point against lowly Carolina, and he made a good call.

GrkFlyersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 07:30 PM
  #69
Sports24-7
Registered User
 
Sports24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrkFlyersFan View Post
Because it's customary for the starter to take a day of rest before the playoffs, usually either the last or second to last game. With a playoff spot locked up, Dineen trusted Clemmensen to get a point against lowly Carolina, and he made a good call.
Maybe in a situation where that game isn't as important. That was the difference between the 3rd seed and the 8th and going into the playoffs on a high after winning the division or going in on a low after completely blowing the division that should have been locked up a week earlier. That's a huge game. Not one you rest anybody in. I don't believe for one minute that Clemmer starts if Dineen thinks Theo is the better shot at a win. That would be foolish.

Sports24-7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 08:09 PM
  #70
GrkFlyersFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
Maybe in a situation where that game isn't as important. That was the difference between the 3rd seed and the 8th and going into the playoffs on a high after winning the division or going in on a low after completely blowing the division that should have been locked up a week earlier. That's a huge game. Not one you rest anybody in. I don't believe for one minute that Clemmer starts if Dineen thinks Theo is the better shot at a win. That would be foolish.
It's like a game we had last year. We needed a point to win our division in our last game of the season, which was against the Islanders. Easy game, whoever you put in, should be able to do the job. Sure enough, our backup Boucher was able to get the win, and even though he was hotter, Sergei Bobrovsky was our starter and still started Game 1 against Buffalo.

GrkFlyersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 08:25 PM
  #71
PanthersHockey1
Avs Bandwagon
 
PanthersHockey1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UF & Boca Raton
Country: United States
Posts: 5,476
vCash: 500
theo goes for me in game 1. The leash; however, is a very short one. Any slip up and clemm is the go to man in game 2

PanthersHockey1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 08:33 PM
  #72
Sports24-7
Registered User
 
Sports24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrkFlyersFan View Post
It's like a game we had last year. We needed a point to win our division in our last game of the season, which was against the Islanders. Easy game, whoever you put in, should be able to do the job. Sure enough, our backup Boucher was able to get the win, and even though he was hotter, Sergei Bobrovsky was our starter and still started Game 1 against Buffalo.
I'm just curious. How many of the Panthers last games did you watch? Because we're not talking about a small difference here. Theo was a big reason why the Panthers lost those two in a row and Clemmenson was by far the biggest reason they won against the Jets. He made some huge saves early in that game. That's why I just don't buy that he went with Clemmer to give Theo a break. In a game that important I just don't see a Dineen going with anyone other than the guy he thought gave them the best chance to win. I believe this game was far more important to the Panthers than that Flyers game.

Sports24-7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 08:37 PM
  #73
Sports24-7
Registered User
 
Sports24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
theo goes for me in game 1. The leash; however, is a very short one. Any slip up and clemm is the go to man in game 2
If you have that little confidence in Theo that he has a "very short leash" why start him in the first place? Are there any doubts about how Clemmer is playing right now? Is he record not excellent against the Devils? I just don't understand the line of thinking that says you go with the guy playing not nearly as well because of some sort of respect thing. The goal should be to win, not honor your starting goalie.

Sports24-7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 08:42 PM
  #74
PanthersHockey1
Avs Bandwagon
 
PanthersHockey1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UF & Boca Raton
Country: United States
Posts: 5,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
If you have that little confidence in Theo that he has a "very short leash" why start him in the first place? Are there any doubts about how Clemmer is playing right now? Is he record not excellent against the Devils? I just don't understand the line of thinking that says you go with the guy playing not nearly as well because of some sort of respect thing. The goal should be to win, not honor your starting goalie.
if you had asked me two days ago i would have said start clemmensen without a question. i have thought it over a lot and two things strike me as to why theo starts game 1.

1. Theo has more to prove. The guy knows he is in the doghouse and he knows he has to prove himself to the coaches, players, and fans that he is worthy of carrying this team. On the other hand clemmensen might have a false sense of confidence. The man knows he is playing well and he knows his record against the devils. Too much confidence is a bad thing.

2. What would Pete Deboer expect? Whether you believe it or not coaches have to plan playing against goalies. deboer knows clemm is on a roll and he knows he is good against the devils. Deboer would expect to play clemmensen. Why not throw the idiot off his game by switching Strategy all about strategy.

PanthersHockey1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-10-2012, 09:29 PM
  #75
GrkFlyersFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
I'm just curious. How many of the Panthers last games did you watch? Because we're not talking about a small difference here. Theo was a big reason why the Panthers lost those two in a row and Clemmenson was by far the biggest reason they won against the Jets. He made some huge saves early in that game. That's why I just don't buy that he went with Clemmer to give Theo a break. In a game that important I just don't see a Dineen going with anyone other than the guy he thought gave them the best chance to win. I believe this game was far more important to the Panthers than that Flyers game.
Pretty similar. You don't get the point, you get a lower seed. Also similar was the easy opponent. I also think you're looking at too small a sample size. So because Clemmensen's been better the last couple weeks, he should be the playoff goalie? A lot of you Panthers fans would make great Flyers fans. Backup goalies are popular here, too. Not only is Theodore a better goalie, whatever hot streak Clemmensen had going, very good chance a week off will slow that down. Theodore has been a starter most of his career. Clemmensen has never been a starter. The closest thing, was when he was the Devils 3rd goalie in 08-09 when Brodeur was injured. Other than Carolina in '06, and Detroit in '08, using your backup in the playoffs is not really a recipe for success. I'm a Flyers fan, I HATE the Devils and am rooting for you guys. Good luck Panthers!

GrkFlyersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.