if you had asked me two days ago i would have said start clemmensen without a question. i have thought it over a lot and two things strike me as to why theo starts game 1.
1. Theo has more to prove. The guy knows he is in the doghouse and he knows he has to prove himself to the coaches, players, and fans that he is worthy of carrying this team. On the other hand clemmensen might have a false sense of confidence. The man knows he is playing well and he knows his record against the devils. Too much confidence is a bad thing.
2. What would Pete Deboer expect? Whether you believe it or not coaches have to plan playing against goalies. deboer knows clemm is on a roll and he knows he is good against the devils. Deboer would expect to play clemmensen. Why not throw the idiot off his game by switching Strategy all about strategy.
Also as many have mentioned, clemmer is much more experienced at coming off the bench...and like you mentioned, you go with the girl who brought ou to the dance. If he sucks, clemmer game 2.
if you had asked me two days ago i would have said start clemmensen without a question. i have thought it over a lot and two things strike me as to why theo starts game 1.
1. Theo has more to prove. The guy knows he is in the doghouse and he knows he has to prove himself to the coaches, players, and fans that he is worthy of carrying this team. On the other hand clemmensen might have a false sense of confidence. The man knows he is playing well and he knows his record against the devils. Too much confidence is a bad thing.
2. What would Pete Deboer expect? Whether you believe it or not coaches have to plan playing against goalies. deboer knows clemm is on a roll and he knows he is good against the devils. Deboer would expect to play clemmensen. Why not throw the idiot off his game by switching Strategy all about strategy.
I think you're overthinking it. Theo has something to prove but he's not in the doghouse. I also don't understand the basis for thinking Clemmer will be overconfident. I think it's much more simple than that. One is playing well and the other is not.
As for Deboer preparing for Theo vs Clemmer, while there is planning for playing a goalie, they're not going to drastically change anything no matter who's in net. And I seriously doubt Deboer "expects" anything. I'm sure they'll prepare for both.
Pretty similar. You don't get the point, you get a lower seed. Also similar was the easy opponent. I also think you're looking at too small a sample size. So because Clemmensen's been better the last couple weeks, he should be the playoff goalie? A lot of you Panthers fans would make great Flyers fans. Backup goalies are popular here, too. Not only is Theodore a better goalie, whatever hot streak Clemmensen had going, very good chance a week off will slow that down. Theodore has been a starter most of his career. Clemmensen has never been a starter. The closest thing, was when he was the Devils 3rd goalie in 08-09 when Brodeur was injured. Other than Carolina in '06, and Detroit in '08, using your backup in the playoffs is not really a recipe for success. I'm a Flyers fan, I HATE the Devils and am rooting for you guys. Good luck Panthers!
It's really not that similar. The Flyers were a great team that had they lost would have been a 4 seed. The Panthers would go from a 3 seed and home ice to playing the top seed in the East without home ice. You also have to take into account the state of the franchise. This is a team that's been out of the playoffs for a decade and has been knocked out in dramatic fashion before. They were in the midst of blowing what looked like a sure division title a couple weeks ago to needing to win. And at that point there was no such thing as an "easy team" as they had lost to the bottom feeders of the NHL the previous handful of games.
Again, how many of those Panthers games did you watch? We're not talking about a slight difference between the two, we're talking Clemmenson was lights out and Theo played as bad as he's been all year letting in some bad goals.
And this has nothing to do with the whole backup goalie thing. In the NHL playoffs you go with the hot goalie. It's the way it is. I don't want to anoint Clemmenson our "playoff goalie" I just think he should start the first game and see how long he stays hot. If he cools off, you go back to Theo. And I believe if that happens Theo will be ready. I played goalie on a HS championship team and even though I wanted to start every time, if I was not playing well entering the playoffs and the backup was I would fully understand and be ready for my shot when the time came. That didn't happen, but that would have been my mentality.
It's really not that similar. The Flyers were a great team that had they lost would have been a 4 seed. The Panthers would go from a 3 seed and home ice to playing the top seed in the East without home ice. You also have to take into account the state of the franchise. This is a team that's been out of the playoffs for a decade and has been knocked out in dramatic fashion before. They were in the midst of blowing what looked like a sure division title a couple weeks ago to needing to win. And at that point there was no such thing as an "easy team" as they had lost to the bottom feeders of the NHL the previous handful of games.
Again, how many of those Panthers games did you watch? We're not talking about a slight difference between the two, we're talking Clemmenson was lights out and Theo played as bad as he's been all year letting in some bad goals.
And this has nothing to do with the whole backup goalie thing. In the NHL playoffs you go with the hot goalie. It's the way it is. I don't want to anoint Clemmenson our "playoff goalie" I just think he should start the first game and see how long he stays hot. If he cools off, you go back to Theo. And I believe if that happens Theo will be ready. I played goalie on a HS championship team and even though I wanted to start every time, if I was not playing well entering the playoffs and the backup was I would fully understand and be ready for my shot when the time came. That didn't happen, but that would have been my mentality.
It's still only a couple weeks of a season, versus an entire body of work for a season. I watched a couple Panthers games late in the season, including the one against us. Clemmensen played well, but we Flyers fans didn't think much of it, as we often struggle against backups. I also played goalie, albeit not at the level you did, and I've been starter and backup. The first team I ever played for, I was the backup, because the other goalie was the coach's son. I didn't like it, but I relished the chances I did get to play. My attitude changed when I was the starter on a different team, but my coach picked up a new backup for me, who got the nod over me for a playoff game, and it was a slap in the face to me. The team's fortunes had been riding on me all season, and suddenly they didn't. Theodore has been the Panthers man all season, and now because Clemmensen's been better the last couple weeks, now he hasn't even earned the right to start to open the playoffs? That would not only be an insult to him, it's not a good hockey move, especially considering that a week off probably has cooled Clemmensen off.
I'm just curious. How many of the Panthers last games did you watch? Because we're not talking about a small difference here. Theo was a big reason why the Panthers lost those two in a row and Clemmenson was by far the biggest reason they won against the Jets. He made some huge saves early in that game. That's why I just don't buy that he went with Clemmer to give Theo a break. In a game that important I just don't see a Dineen going with anyone other than the guy he thought gave them the best chance to win. I believe this game was far more important to the Panthers than that Flyers game.
Clemm was a huge part of the win. But he was the default starter in game 82. Division was huge and if we didn't have a decent backup, than maybe you don't give him the night off with the division on the line. Why do you think Dineen put Theodore back in Washington? Because he wanted Theo too figure his **** out so he didn't have to start him against Carolina.
Also as many have mentioned, clemmer is much more experienced at coming off the bench...and like you mentioned, you go with the girl who brought ou to the dance. If he sucks, clemmer game 2.
It's kinda nice to see another Panther fan recognizing Theodore was a big reason we're in the playoffs.
It's really not that similar. The Flyers were a great team that had they lost would have been a 4 seed. The Panthers would go from a 3 seed and home ice to playing the top seed in the East without home ice. You also have to take into account the state of the franchise. This is a team that's been out of the playoffs for a decade and has been knocked out in dramatic fashion before. They were in the midst of blowing what looked likYe a sure division title a couple weeks ago to needing to win. And at that point there was no such thing as an "easy team" as they had lost to the bottom feeders of the NHL the previous handful of games.
Again, how many of those Panthers games did you watch? We're not talking about a slight difference between the two, we're talking Clemmenson was lights out and Theo played as bad as he's been all year letting in some bad goals.
And this has nothing to do with the whole backup goalie thing. In the NHL playoffs you go with the hot goalie. It's the way it is. I don't want to anoint Clemmenson our "playoff goalie" I just think he should start the first game and see how long he stays hot. If he cools off, you go back to Theo. And I believe if that happens Theo will be ready. I played goalie on a HS championship team and even though I wanted to start every time, if I was not playing well entering the playoffs and the backup was I would fully understand and be ready for my shot when the time came. That didn't happen, but that would have been my mentality.
Nobody said this was going to be an easy decision for Dineen.
Last edited by nhlfan9191: 04-11-2012 at 02:39 AM.
It's kinda nice to see another Panther fan recognizing Theodore was a big reason we're in the playoffs.
He's both the reason we're in the playoffs, and the reason we almost blew the playoffs.
If he shows evidence that he's back to seeing the puck well again, then he should start. But even during warmups at the Jets game last week, he was letting in almost every practice shot. I don't know why he stayed in through that whole comeback by the Jets.
He's both the reason we're in the playoffs, and the reason we almost blew the playoffs.
If he shows evidence that he's back to seeing the puck well again, then he should start. But even during warmups at the Jets game last week, he was letting in almost every practice shot. I don't know why he stayed in through that whole comeback by the Jets.
He was AWFUL in Winnipeg and bad in Washington. But the reason we almost missed the playoffs was because we can't score more than 2 goals a game. Sometimes we can't even score 2. How many times have we scored more than two goals for Theodore lately? Only once in his last 8 starts. Clemmenson has only had one game in his last 4 starts where he has gotten more than 2 goals from his team. Our scoring is a disaster. Only reason we beat the canes is because Boucher gave us 3 EASY goals. Theodore is not the reason we almost missed the playoffs. Our pathetic scoring is. We have no depth players who can put the puck in the net. It's depressing.
It's kinda nice to see another Panther fan recognizing Theodore was a big reason we're in the playoffs.
Who has not recognized that? He's absolutely a huge reason why they're in. That doesn't mean he should be handed the start in game 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrkFlyersFan
It's still only a couple weeks of a season, versus an entire body of work for a season. I watched a couple Panthers games late in the season, including the one against us. Clemmensen played well, but we Flyers fans didn't think much of it, as we often struggle against backups. I also played goalie, albeit not at the level you did, and I've been starter and backup. The first team I ever played for, I was the backup, because the other goalie was the coach's son. I didn't like it, but I relished the chances I did get to play. My attitude changed when I was the starter on a different team, but my coach picked up a new backup for me, who got the nod over me for a playoff game, and it was a slap in the face to me. The team's fortunes had been riding on me all season, and suddenly they didn't. Theodore has been the Panthers man all season, and now because Clemmensen's been better the last couple weeks, now he hasn't even earned the right to start to open the playoffs? That would not only be an insult to him, it's not a good hockey move, especially considering that a week off probably has cooled Clemmensen off.
It may be a couple of weeks in the season, but those weeks are the most recent weeks, so IMO it's relevant. We're also not talking about an all-star vs a lowly backup here. Clemmer is one of the best backups in the NHL and is not a whole lot worse than Theo. They're almost 1A and 1B. Going into the year many people though they'd split time. Theo played well and Clemmer got hurt though so Theo got the bulk of the starts. So it wouldn't be some kind of slap in the face to go with the "backup" here.
Who has not recognized that? He's absolutely a huge reason why they're in. That doesn't mean he should be handed the start in game 1.
It may be a couple of weeks in the season, but those weeks are the most recent weeks, so IMO it's relevant. We're also not talking about an all-star vs a lowly backup here. Clemmer is one of the best backups in the NHL and is not a whole lot worse than Theo. They're almost 1A and 1B. Going into the year many people though they'd split time. Theo played well and Clemmer got hurt though so Theo got the bulk of the starts. So it wouldn't be some kind of slap in the face to go with the "backup" here.
He's not being handed nothing. It's a question of do you go with "Mr.right" or "Mr.right now". That's something Dineen will decide.
I think Dineen should go with the Goalie who has the best record on paper against the Devils! That would give us the best shot at starting the series with a W thus giving us a better shot at the series as well.
The Panthers haven't exactly played any better in front of Clemmer recently and he's found a way to win games.
I'm not so sure we beat Carolina without Clemmer's goaltending that night. He made some great saves. Saves that Theodore didn't make against Winnipeg on a night that the team also scored 4 goals for him.
For what it's worth, I'm not bashing Theo; he was consistent all year for us. I just don't see the big deal about going with the hot goalie who just so happens to own the opponent we're about to face. If it doesn't work out, go back to Theo in game 2.
Yeah, no doubt Clemmer has been stronger than Theo recently. I'm not saying otherwise. Still, the Panthers played badly down the stretch in front of both of them, so you can't pin all those losses on Theo. It's a team game.
Clemmer made a couple stellar saves against Carolina. I applaud him for that. other than that, it was a pretty routine night that most starting goalies would be expected to produce. The team also played much better against Carolina than against Winnipeg.
I've already said my piece about why I think it's better for Theo to start and not come off the bench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports24-7
If that's something Dineen is actually worried about, then maybe I can understand starting Theo, but I think Theo is enough of a professional that he could handle it and would understand. And if he does, to me this shouldn't even be a discussion about who should start because Theo has not always taken care of business. He very nearly blew our shot to win the division at the end of the year. I love what he's done for us, and we would not be in the playoffs without him, but again, you can ride a hot goalie to a nice playoff run and Clemmer is playing lights out right now. There's a reason he was in net against Carolina, and he was probably the biggest reason they won that game.
No matter what goalie you're talking about, when you get shunned in faovr of the other guy, it cuts you. I think his confidence, while not fragile, isn't the strongest right now. I think he should start. Clemmer is used to being the backup, and if anything, it is he who will understand not starting in game 1.
Theo has definitely always taken care of business after he's had weak games, or a stretch of weak games. He's always come back strong. He's been extremely consistent this season.
Clemmer was in net against Carolina because Theo was not playing well. That doesn't mean he's the goalie for the playoffs. It was one game.
The team has had four practices since the last game so I guess we can't really say Dineen's wrong, either way. After some time thinking about it, it has to be based on what he sees in practice because you have to take into account the long time off with Clemmer's hot streak. So who knows.
At the end of the day, our goaltending will probably be steady; we need some goals.
The team has had four practices since the last game so I guess we can't really say Dineen's wrong, either way. After some time thinking about it, it has to be based on what he sees in practice because you have to take into account the long time off with Clemmer's hot streak. So who knows.
At the end of the day, our goaltending will probably be steady; we need some goals.
LGP!!!
Our goaltending better be half as good as your avatar.
What you may be disregarding is clemmer is a lifetime backup and better prepared to come in off the bench. Dineen will certainly take that into the equation.
I like it cause if he sue go clemmer game 2. Theo here next yr, give him his due tonight,his to screw up.
Dineen said it best. He's excited about the situation we have in net right now. You can't go wrong with whoever you start because you have a great option if things don't work out.
Dineen said it best. He's excited about the situation we have in net right now. You can't go wrong with whoever you start because you have a great option if things don't work out.
You said it best. he's going with mr right over mr right now.
Dineen said it best. He's excited about the situation we have in net right now. You can't go wrong with whoever you start because you have a great option if things don't work out.
Things didn't work out but Dineen didn't exercise the option.
