Anyways the point I'd like to really make is with all this...why not keep them both?!?
Homegrown dmen don't exist for us. Why can't we have two? They may be both offensive but they both bring good things and looked good on pp together. We have a good defense slowly forming. Allen may not stay and we will need all these guys to stay and keep developing.
Murphy and dumo aren't here yet. They should have to take jobs by being better than the incumbents. They both have the long term possibility of making guys expendable, but time will tell if that's gonna be Mcbain or Pitts or maybe even Faulk.
BINGO! I think it would be pretty silly to trade McBain at this point, until we know what we have with our other promising young dmen. Dumoulin and Murphy are not too far off from getting a shot in the NHL, lets wait for them to get here and see who the odd-man out is. I think McBain can still improve his defensive game quite a bit and his offense is already pretty good. I think Murphy is the only one with the higher offensive ceiling.
I'm glad that thread pointed out Mcbain having some value. Its not about knocking Faulk down, I think he is a great rookie, I just see Mcbain being severely undervalued and blamed for things I don't understand. I agree faulks game looks better long term for being well rounded, it just isn't there yet.
When I refer to Harrison as our best d, it's more of a by default because no one was great this year. Allen was steady Eddie, as was Harrison to me though I have no idea about how his numbers look. I just feel he stepped up and played a role we didn't think he could. I would hope he is only a bottom pair guy in the future.
This unit will be good in time offensively, I do think we need a little more "shut down" out of it though. Suter would be perfect. Let him be Wesley, maybe move Pitts, let the kids grow in the offensive side. Pitts is an amazing physical player, but no grit or leadership and his offense can be replaced by Mcbain, Faulk and Murphy. If we had suter I think Pitts should go. We won't so it won't matter.
Last edited by bleedgreen: 04-09-2012 at 02:39 PM.
Wouldn't it be nice if in a few years, we had a defensive core that had 4 or so of our own homegrown prospects (out of McBain, Faulk, Murphy, Dumoulin, Levi, Beiga, Alt, etc..)?
Gleason was a +12 on this garbage even strength team. Next closest defenseman is Allen at -1. I feel like he(and his contract) get trashed on here pretty frequently despite the fact that he had a pretty solid season. Is it just that he's ugly to watch, or doesn't throw as many open ice hits as he used to.
After the contract was signed, I heard very little Gleason bashing. He was playing better, which had a lot to do with it, but I think some of it is simply "Well, there's nothing that can be done now".
I dont think we are going to see Dwyer jettisoned. Muller mentioned adding more guys that play quality PK minutes. Ditching Dwyer would just open another hole in this department. On top of that his line played alot of minutes even strength against top 6 guys and he still finished even in +/_ despite not scoring many points. Granted he probably shouldnt be at 15 minutes a night but he is still a very useful role player on a good club
I dont think we are going to see Dwyer jettisoned. Muller mentioned adding more guys that play quality PK minutes. Ditching Dwyer would just open another hole in this department. On top of that his line played alot of minutes even strength against top 6 guys and he still finished even in +/_ despite not scoring many points. Granted he probably shouldnt be at 15 minutes a night but he is still a very useful role player on a good club
I tend to agree. I think Stewart would be the odd man out (and Joslin in terms of being a forward) before Dwyer is gone.
Dwyer, Stewart, Nodl, Boucher, Mcbain, LaRose traded/out/retire. Mostly because I don't like these players, and I'm tired of having a team that gets pushed around. If we lose at least we don't get beat up.
"Kirk indicated that the 4th line was one of the things he wanted to tweak heading into the offseason, and we think a big strong guy like Jeremy Welsh is exactly what was needed and makes us tough to play against. Ryan Murphy completes our defense and gives us the elite threat on the powerplay that we've never head before. We were in the mix for a top line forward, but the contract numbers just didn't make sense for us. I'm real happy with the way our group has come together so I'm not looking to make any deals, but if an offer comes my way I'll take a good look at it." - Jim Rutherford
When it comes to clearing the puck and creating breakouts when under pressure, there's no comparison.
McBain is the new Corvo behind the net.
Corvo handles the puck like an rabid hedgehog.
McBain will hand it off as quick as possible if he is in trouble. He's in trouble often because of his aforementioned physical lackings, but quickly handing off the puck isn't the same as Corvo's "OH **** THEY HAVE SKATERS TOO?!?!?!" fast dump up the boards, regardless whoever is there.
Faulk is only better if you decide to ignore his rookie mistakes, something that the entire HF Multiverse seems to enjoy doing.
Another thing I find striking is that Harrison is being called our top defenseman. He's not even close. Like, REALLY not even close. He's more gaffe-prone than Faulk and McBain put together. He can't stop a odd man rush to save his life, has terrible instincts and doesn't contribute offensively other than a hard slapshot. I like Jay, particularly as a person, but he is absolutely bottom-pairing material and would be a scratch on some teams. That's just the harsh reality of his talent level.
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Harrison seemed to do better under Mo's system. I think it was because he was the only one on the defense with a high enough IQ to understand it. He really doesn't have the tools to be anything more than a bottom pairing guy.
Faulk is only better if you decide to ignore his rookie mistakes, something that the entire HF Multiverse seems to enjoy doing.
Well, in fairness, it isn't HF boards that is giving ice-time to the two of them. Two consecutive coaches have consistently given Faulk more TOI/Game and against better competition than McBain.
Well, in fairness, it isn't HF boards that is giving ice-time to the two of them. Two consecutive coaches have consistently given Faulk more TOI/Game and against better competition than McBain.
Well, also in fairness, 3 coaches have stuck LaRose on the top line but that doesn't stop the *****ing and moaning about him getting icetime there.
Well, also in fairness, 3 coaches have stuck LaRose on the top line but that doesn't stop the *****ing and moaning about him getting icetime there.
True
I really think the hate on LaRose is more hate that JR hasn't put a roster together that allows a guy like LaRose to excel where he should excel...on the 3rd/4th line and the fact that the prospects (Bowman, Dalpe, Boychuk, Nash) haven't developed to take a top 6 spot.
I like what JR is saying, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I'm semi curious about Semin. I know he's not a prototypical "JR Guy" but we do like reclamation projects.
I think it's a lock that we make an offer to Parise, but for whatever reason, hypothetically, if that doesn't work out, I wonder if we'd Call Alex? I mean JR said he wants a top 6 winger, and there aren't a whole lot of stand out ones this summer.
I'm semi curious about Semin. I know he's not a prototypical "JR Guy" but we do like reclamation projects.
I think it's a lock that we make an offer to Parise, but for whatever reason, hypothetically, if that doesn't work out, I wonder if we'd Call Alex? I mean JR said he wants a top 6 winger, and there aren't a whole lot of stand out ones this summer.
I think JR makes a hard push for Parise if he makes it to UFA. If that doesn't pan out, I can see him working on a trade for someone like Ryan. If that also doesn't pan out, I see him going after someone like Penner (or maybe Whitney) before Semin.
I thought JR's comments on the guys in Charlotte was pretty frank. Came right out and said he was disappointed in the development of Boychuk, Dalpe and Bowman..but that Bowman was ahead of the other two. Not looking good for any of them at this point.
I think JR makes a hard push for Parise if he makes it to UFA. If that doesn't pan out, I can see him working on a trade for someone like Ryan.
This was something else I've been thinking about for a while, Ryan's under contract for three more years (not counting this one) and has a pretty modest cap hit of 5.1m. I think JR will push hard as you say for Parise, but I almost wonder if there still might be a trade in the works? I know we were linked to Ryan earlier this year (think it was Bob but I forget for sure who said it)
Not sure what the trade would be (8th pick + ??) but if I did the math right, and the cap floor goes to what it's projected to, we could give Zach 8m and trade for Bobby and only be 1.1m approx over the floor.
Well, in fairness, it isn't HF boards that is giving ice-time to the two of them. Two consecutive coaches have consistently given Faulk more TOI/Game and against better competition than McBain.
I respectfully disagree.
That can be explained by two things.
1. Faulk plays on the PP and the PK, while McBain plays on only the PP.
2. When Pitkanen is in, he and McBain play as our 2nd pairing (assuming that our 1st pairing is the "shutdown" duo of Gleason and Allen). When Pitkanen was out for 3 months, Harrison-Faulk became our 2nd pairing while McBain was playing 3rd time minutes with Kaberle/Spacek/Joslin.
Before Pitkanen came back, McBain played around 18 minutes a night. Faulk was playing at and above 25 minutes a night. When Pitkanen was reinserted into the lineup, their TOI/GM became much more similar, with both playing just north of 21 minutes a night. Depending if we were PK/PP heavy on a given night, one would jump ahead while the other would falter (though Faulk was more immune to this since he plays both).
So I think Faulk getting more TOI than McBain is more telling of who McBain's partners are vs. Faulk and special teams' TOI than an accurate assesment of McBain vs. Faulk. McBain had to play with talent such as Spacek and Joslin on a consistent basis, while Faulk was with the slightly more competent Harrison. It is telling that when McBain's common partner Pitkanen came back, the TOI between the two players suddenly started to match each other.
That still doesn't change the fact that Faulk plays regular PK minutes, something I wish McBain could do.
And that when Pitkanen was in at the beginning of the year, McBain played on the 3rd pairing with Kaberle/Allen?. At the beginning of the year, Faulk played way more than McBain.
TL: DR- When McBain plays with his partner Pitkanen, McBain/Faulk minutes become much closer in number. I don't think TOI/GM can be used as an accurate assesment of comparing the players due to this, and because McBain became the odd man out when Faulk-Harrison and Gleason-Allen developed chemistry, leaving McBain to play with Kaberle, Spacek and Joslin.
All I have to say is its going to be an interesting offseason.
We have 11 Forwards currently on the roster locked up (12 if Welsh counts) {Staal, Skinner, Ruutu, Jokinen, Sutter, Tlusty, LaRose, Stewart, Brent, Dwyer, Nodl) Then you have the kids in Charlotte: Bowman, Dalpe, Boychuk, etc.
6 Dmen on the active roster (assuming McBain doesn't leave as a RFA). {Pits, Gleason, McBain, Joslin, Harrison, Faulk}
Chip retweeted the other day that Peters becomes a Group 6 UFA since he didn't meet certain playing time minimums. He still could re-sign of course though.
We also have 8 to 10 Million to spend to reach the required floor and have players like Dumoulin and Murphy with great shots to make the team as well. If they do, thats that much more of a cap hit that has to be absorbed within another player's salary on the team.
JR is going to be forced to make moves this offseason. He absolutely, no way around it has to.
Last edited by SkinnerStaal: 04-09-2012 at 08:22 PM.
That's fine if you disagree. Your comment was that Faulk is only better if you ignore all his rookie mistakes. I contend that the coaches also wanted Faulk on the ice more than McBain. You can pick and choose reason (partners, PK, etc..) but in the end, both Maurice and Muller felt that way and played Faulk more and in more situations.
I like McBain and there are things he did better than Faulk and I'd like to keep him around, but your comment that Faulk was "only better if you ignore all his rookie mistakes" isn't consistent with how the Canes used the two guys no matter how you want to rationalize it. If McBain was that much better, then he would have seen more time one way or another and not only when he has the Canes most skilled defensemen as his partner.
