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Old
04-09-2012, 11:21 AM
  #26
lof
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
look at the market for other players available via trade.

Dustin Penner got a 1st, Cond. 2nd and Tuebert
Tomas Kaberle got a 1st, Cond. 2nd and Colborne
Paul Gaustad got a 1st
Jeff Cater (and his boat anchor of a contract) got a 1st (8th overall), Voracek (a top 10 pick just 4 years prior and coming off back to back 45+ point seasons) and a 3rd........ then he got a 1st and Jack Johnson despite a poor season and character questions

and you question if Iginla is worth a top prospect, a late 1st and a 2nd liner? Keep in mind the significant difference in value between a late 1st and the 8th overall pick
I hear what you're saying, Medium Rare.

It's Iggy's age and contract that worries me. What team will be willing, or able, to mortgage their future and take on a $7M contract for a 35 year old player?

If I were Feaster, I would do Dubinsky, Rags 1st and Rags 2nd for Iggy, similar to Carter's deal from Columbus, but with a 2nd instead of a 3rd to make up for the lower 1st.

Kaberle was the oldest player in the deals you mentioned, at 32, and Gaustad is 30. Can Iggy contribute at 35 what the Rangers, or any other team, need to take their game to the next level?

It would be a gamble, but, I guess all trades are, no?

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04-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by lof View Post
I hear what you're saying, Medium Rare.

It's Iggy's age and contract that worries me. What team will be willing, or able, to mortgage their future and take on a $7M contract for a 35 year old player?

If I were Feaster, I would do Dubinsky, Rags 1st and Rags 2nd for Iggy, similar to Carter's deal from Columbus, but with a 2nd instead of a 3rd to make up for the lower 1st.

Kaberle was the oldest player in the deals you mentioned, at 32, and Gaustad is 30. Can Iggy contribute at 35 what the Rangers, or any other team, need to take their game to the next level?

It would be a gamble, but, I guess all trades are, no?
You are focusing too much on age, but I suppose that is the HF schtick.

Chris Pronger was dealt at 34-35 and returned a package of 2 first round picks, a 3rd round pick (conditional), a top prospect and a youngish roster player that was a regular 20-30 goal scorer. All with 1 year left on his contract IIRC

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04-09-2012, 12:50 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
You are focusing too much on age, but I suppose that is the HF schtick.

Chris Pronger was dealt at 34-35 and returned a package of 2 first round picks, a 3rd round pick (conditional), a top prospect and a youngish roster player that was a regular 20-30 goal scorer. All with 1 year left on his contract IIRC
Thing is, and this is obviously arguable, at 35, Pronger was a Top-3 defender at the time of the trade you speak of.

Right now, at 35, Iggy is not a Top-3 forward. He's been a great player throughout his career, but, he is not a franchise-type player any longer.

No matter where he plays, his leadership and personality will be a welcome addition.

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04-09-2012, 12:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by lof View Post
Thing is, and this is obviously arguable, at 35, Pronger was a Top-3 defender at the time of the trade you speak of.

Right now, at 35, Iggy is not a Top-3 forward. He's been a great player throughout his career, but, he is not a franchise-type player any longer.

No matter where he plays, his leadership and personality will be a welcome addition.
He is one of the top right wingers and unlike every other right winger he could be available.

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Old
04-09-2012, 01:57 PM
  #30
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He definitely still is a 1st line forward, and if an interested team has the right cast he could be a top scoring player again.

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Old
04-09-2012, 02:01 PM
  #31
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He definitely still is a 1st line forward, and if an interested team has the right cast he could be a top scoring player again.
It isn't at stretch at all to say that he was 3rd in goals last year and top 30 in points this year.

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04-09-2012, 02:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It isn't at stretch at all to say that he was 3rd in goals last year and top 30 in points this year.
That is irrelevant. You don't trade for players based on what they have done, you trade for what you think players can do in the future. Iginla's days of being top 3 in goals scored are behind him. He's very likely to drop out of the top 30 scorers regardless of what team he is traded to. Frankly, if Iginla gets traded to a contender it is likely he plays a support role and is on the second line. That is where Iginla's skills and production is trending and that is what teams are going to pay for. We need to accept it and move on or we're in for a brutal rebuild that will make the Oilers of the past few years look like champions.

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04-09-2012, 02:25 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
That is irrelevant. You don't trade for players based on what they have done, you trade for what you think players can do in the future. Iginla's days of being top 3 in goals scored are behind him. He's very likely to drop out of the top 30 scorers regardless of what team he is traded to. Frankly, if Iginla gets traded to a contender it is likely he plays a support role and is on the second line. That is where Iginla's skills and production is trending and that is what teams are going to pay for. We need to accept it and move on or we're in for a brutal rebuild that will make the Oilers of the past few years look like champions.
Trending to? Based on just this year? If you did that bases three years ago you would have been wrong the biggest problem this year is his pp production he only had 19 points on the pp this year if he goes back to 25ish points on the pp he is in the top 20 in points. If he puts up 30+ points on the pp he is in the top 10 in scoring. His down years are mostly due to down years on the pp. On a top team with a better pp he could easily finish in the top 15 for points.

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04-09-2012, 02:41 PM
  #34
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Has anyone had the chance to read Elliotte Friedman's article about Iginla?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...nevitable.html

Very interesting read...

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04-09-2012, 02:44 PM
  #35
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If Iggy gets traded, he will at least get Chris Kreider and a 1st, I can guarantee you that

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04-09-2012, 02:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Duck Sauce View Post
Has anyone had the chance to read Elliotte Friedman's article about Iginla?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...nevitable.html

Very interesting read...
Great article

Quote:
IGINLA: Okay. I'm willing to go.

He stops for a few seconds.

But, there are some conditions.

FEASTER & EDWARDS: Understood.

IGINLA: I want to go to Edmonton.

The colour drains from the faces of the Flames' owner and GM. This is unexpected, and quite frankly, impossible. Suddenly, Iginla smiles and laughs.

IGINLA: Just wanted to see how you'd react.
That's so Jarome

I'm going to miss the best player that's ever happened to us. The classiest captain in the whole league.

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Old
04-09-2012, 03:36 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Trending to? Based on just this year? If you did that bases three years ago you would have been wrong the biggest problem this year is his pp production he only had 19 points on the pp this year if he goes back to 25ish points on the pp he is in the top 20 in points. If he puts up 30+ points on the pp he is in the top 10 in scoring. His down years are mostly due to down years on the pp. On a top team with a better pp he could easily finish in the top 15 for points.
Based on Iginla's play and the trends of other similar players. Seriously, Bill Guerin is very similar to Iginla in almost every way. Look at his career to see where Iginla is headed. Guerin was a great player, but in the final years of his career he was a support player. Iggy might pull out another 30 goal season out his hockey pants, but he's on the fast track to being a second line player who will get you 20-25 goals and 40-50 points a season. Iginla just doesn't have the complete game anymore to be a top 15 point producer in the NHL. Iginla is a tough guy and a great player, but he will never win the fight against time and what it does to the body.

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04-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Based on Iginla's play and the trends of other similar players. Seriously, Bill Guerin is very similar to Iginla in almost every way. Look at his career to see where Iginla is headed. Guerin was a great player, but in the final years of his career he was a support player. Iggy might pull out another 30 goal season out his hockey pants, but he's on the fast track to being a second line player who will get you 20-25 goals and 40-50 points a season. Iginla just doesn't have the complete game anymore to be a top 15 point producer in the NHL. Iginla is a tough guy and a great player, but he will never win the fight against time and what it does to the body.
His defensive game is gone but he can still score 30+ goals. I would love to make a bet on where he finishes next year. All players age and stats go down I agree I don't believe it is next year for Iginla. People want him to change his game to be more defensive like other players as they got older. Iginla has changed he has become more physical in an attempt to get his teammates in the game. What teams is he not a first liner on next year (there are probably 1 or 2)?

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04-09-2012, 04:16 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Duck Sauce View Post
Has anyone had the chance to read Elliotte Friedman's article about Iginla?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...nevitable.html

Very interesting read...
I would say its a short story more than article

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04-09-2012, 04:30 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
His defensive game is gone but he can still score 30+ goals. I would love to make a bet on where he finishes next year. All players age and stats go down I agree I don't believe it is next year for Iginla. People want him to change his game to be more defensive like other players as they got older. Iginla has changed he has become more physical in an attempt to get his teammates in the game. What teams is he not a first liner on next year (there are probably 1 or 2)?
You have to stop living in the past. Iginla was barely a first line player on the Flames this year. Seriously, there isn't a contending team in the league that will play this year's Iginla on the first line, 30 goals or not. There is just no way that another team is going to put up with his cherry picking and refusal to play on the defensive side of the puck up on the top line. You put your top line on the ice and you want that line to out score the opposition. Iginla just doesn't work hard enough to earn top line time. Don't mistake personal stats for where a player would truly shake out in the lineup of another team. A change of scenery might breathe some life into Iginla, but not enough to turn his game around.

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04-09-2012, 04:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
You have to stop living in the past. Iginla was barely a first line player on the Flames this year. Seriously, there isn't a contending team in the league that will play this year's Iginla on the first line, 30 goals or not. There is just no way that another team is going to put up with his cherry picking and refusal to play on the defensive side of the puck up on the top line. You put your top line on the ice and you want that line to out score the opposition. Iginla just doesn't work hard enough to earn top line time. Don't mistake personal stats for where a player would truly shake out in the lineup of another team. A change of scenery might breathe some life into Iginla, but not enough to turn his game around.
Yea I see no point in arguing you clearly have an opinion of him that no amount of arguing will change.


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04-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Yea I see no point in arguing you clearly have an opinion of him that no amount of arguing will change.
Nothing you say will change my mind, that is a certain. The only thing you continue to say is, "this is Jarome Iginla and he is special, nothing affects him, not even time." It just isn't grounded in reality. This is Iginla of 2012-2013 we're talking about, not 2003-2004. The only thing that will change that opinion is the play of one Jarome Iginla. I've seen better players come and go and recognize when the wheels are about to fall off a player. Iginla's lug nuts are hanging on by a thread. He'd still be a great second line player, but for a team wanting to challenge for the cup I think they can do better on their top line. If a team is looking for a floating, cherry picking RW for the top line, they can just sign Semin and be probably in the same boat.

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04-09-2012, 05:02 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Nothing you say will change my mind, that is a certain. The only thing you continue to say is, "this is Jarome Iginla and he is special, nothing affects him, not even time." It just isn't grounded in reality. This is Iginla of 2012-2013 we're talking about, not 2003-2004. The only thing that will change that opinion is the play of one Jarome Iginla. I've seen better players come and go and recognize when the wheels are about to fall off a player. Iginla's lug nuts are hanging on by a thread. He'd still be a great second line player, but for a team wanting to challenge for the cup I think they can do better on their top line. If a team is looking for a floating, cherry picking RW for the top line, they can just sign Semin and be probably in the same boat.
Iginla had more blocked shots this year and his best giva/ take away ratio he has ever had since they started keeping track in 05-06. He may not be an all star defensive forward any more but he just cherry pick he has committed himself to helping the team out defensively as well. He doesn't float the "cherry pick" is a team strategy to try and give him some breakaways and score goals some thing few other players can do on this team. But hey he is barely a first line player on this team or any other teams even tho he is in the top 30 in points and goals and one of the top shot blockers on his team.

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04-09-2012, 05:02 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Nothing you say will change my mind, that is a certain. The only thing you continue to say is, "this is Jarome Iginla and he is special, nothing affects him, not even time." It just isn't grounded in reality. This is Iginla of 2012-2013 we're talking about, not 2003-2004. The only thing that will change that opinion is the play of one Jarome Iginla. I've seen better players come and go and recognize when the wheels are about to fall off a player. Iginla's lug nuts are hanging on by a thread. He'd still be a great second line player, but for a team wanting to challenge for the cup I think they can do better on their top line. If a team is looking for a floating, cherry picking RW for the top line, they can just sign Semin and be probably in the same boat.
The bitterness of not making the playoffs is very evident in you

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04-09-2012, 05:14 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Iginla had more blocked shots this year and his best giva/ take away ratio he has ever had since they started keeping track in 05-06. He may not be an all star defensive forward any more but he just cherry pick he has committed himself to helping the team out defensively as well. He doesn't float the "cherry pick" is a team strategy to try and give him some breakaways and score goals some thing few other players can do on this team. But hey he is barely a first line player on this team or any other teams even tho he is in the top 30 in points and goals and one of the top shot blockers on his team.
Wait... what?

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04-09-2012, 05:17 PM
  #46
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Wait... what?
4th among forwards in blocked shots and that is without PK time

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Old
04-09-2012, 05:35 PM
  #47
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Wait... what?
He is 4th for forwards in shots blocked with no pk time.

Edit: Dam you medium rare that was my factoid to tell for the day.


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Old
04-09-2012, 05:49 PM
  #48
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The bitterness of not making the playoffs is very evident in you
More like the bitterness of being an Oilers fan.

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04-09-2012, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
He is 4th for forwards in shots blocked with no pk time.

Edit: Dam you medium rare that was my factoid to tell for the day.
if it helps I had no clue until you said something and I looked it up, so you still get the credit for knowing, I just want the props for backing you up with research

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04-09-2012, 06:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
if it helps I had no clue until you said something and I looked it up, so you still get the credit for knowing, I just want the props for backing you up with research
I am sure he only blocked shots after we were out of the playoffs tho, am I right Iginla haters?

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