I do not get the Petry hype AT ALL. Every time I watch him play he gets burned HORRIBLY 1-on-1, often numerous times per game. He seems extremely weak defensively, there must be something that I'm not seeing there, but I don't get what Oilers fans are excited about. You can try to write them off as rookie mistakes, but he's 24 years old and has played 108 NHL games, he shouldn't be responsible for such major defensive breakdowns on such a regular basis. He has some solid offensive talent, but seems like a total pylon on d. Gardiner by far for me.
Me neither. Every time I discuss the Oilers blueline, their fans try to convince me that Petry is some kind of defensive god. That said I don't think Gardiner is as good as Leafs fans say either. Loads of talent, but not in the Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Doughty tier as some would have us believe.
For me it's Gardiner, but not by as much as you'd think. Both players are pretty overrated. Petry more so though.
Let me clarify that I don't think Gardiner is crazy good or anything, no way would I be putting him anywhere close to Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Doughty, etc. (no Leafs fan worth listening to would put him in that stratosphere), but I like him quite a lot. Elite skater, very calm and poised with the puck, solid offensive skill level in general. Makes his mistakes like most 21 year old rookies, but I think he shows a lot of promise on d, really uses his speed and is generally pretty good 1-on-1. I can see him eventually maturing into a good top pairing dman (as in a guy who should be on the top pairing on a solid playoff team), or at the very least a great 2nd pairing dman. He's not there yet, obviously, but he's a 21 year old rookie who didn't even see any AHL time. He also made the transition from forward to d pretty late in his career, like Brent Burns, so he's on a steeper part of his learning curve than most in terms of the nuances of defense (Burns was awful defensively early on, but has become fairly solid, Gardiner is a lot better defensively than Burns was when he entered the league, though Gardiner isn't as big or as talented offensively). Basically, I do not think it's a stretch to say that he has a decent chance to become a solid top pairing dman by his mid 20s.
As for Petry, Oilers fans keep telling me that he's fine defensively, but I've watched quite a few Oilers games this year, I always make sure to keep my eye on Petry, and I do not see it at all. Whenever I watch him he gets burned very, very badly on d. He may look decent compared to other Oilers dmen, but the Oilers have one of the least talented bluelines in the league, I just do not think he's anything special at all. Even at 24, I think he'd have a difficult time making most playoff teams, he's IMO an AHLer on most good teams.
I do not get the Petry hype AT ALL. Every time I watch him play he gets burned HORRIBLY 1-on-1, often numerous times per game. He seems extremely weak defensively, there must be something that I'm not seeing there, but I don't get what Oilers fans are excited about. You can try to write them off as rookie mistakes, but he's 24 years old and has played 108 NHL games, he shouldn't be responsible for such major defensive breakdowns on such a regular basis. He has some solid offensive talent, but seems like a total pylon on d. Gardiner by far for me.
Good job, you watched one game where he didn't play well and now he gets "burned HORRIBLY 1-on-1, often numerous times per game." No one showed up in that Van game besides Hemsky and Dubnyk anyway.
Petry goes up against the other teams' top lines and plays a physical game. He can also add some offense which is a plus. Petry gets put on the ice against much tougher competition than Gardiner, who gets easy minutes and easy points. Not to mention Gardiner is a softie.
Good job, you watched one game where he didn't play well and now he gets "burned HORRIBLY 1-on-1, often numerous times per game." No one showed up in that Van game besides Hemsky and Dubnyk anyway.
Petry goes up against the other teams' top lines and plays a physical game. He can also add some offense which is a plus. Petry gets put on the ice against much tougher competition than Gardiner, who gets easy minutes and easy points. Not to mention Gardiner is a softie.
Petry easily.
He goes up against top lines because the Oilers D sucks . And how the hell does Gardiner get easy points? Going end to end by himself and scoring , yea easy..... ..
Gardiner by a muile
Good job, you watched one game where he didn't play well and now he gets "burned HORRIBLY 1-on-1, often numerous times per game." No one showed up in that Van game besides Hemsky and Dubnyk anyway.
Petry goes up against the other teams' top lines and plays a physical game. He can also add some offense which is a plus. Petry gets put on the ice against much tougher competition than Gardiner, who gets easy minutes and easy points. Not to mention Gardiner is a softie.
Petry easily.
I haven't seen too much of Petry (Probably less then Ponder, who I guarantee has watched more then 1 game) but from what I've seen of him on OKC and edmonton I agree with Ponder. People talk about his stick work but frequently I just see him using his stick instead of taking the man and getting blown by.
Your one to talk about watching games, that description of Gardiner is hilarious.
Edit: I don't know if there's such a thing as easy points in the NHL, especially as a defenseman, it seem like something someone would say when they have absolutely no argument.
As for Petry, Oilers fans keep telling me that he's fine defensively, but I've watched quite a few Oilers games this year, I always make sure to keep my eye on Petry, and I do not see it at all. Whenever I watch him he gets burned very, very badly on d. He may look decent compared to other Oilers dmen, but the Oilers have one of the least talented bluelines in the league, I just do not think he's anything special at all. Even at 24, I think he'd have a difficult time making most playoff teams, he's IMO an AHLer on most good teams.
Sorry man but this is a load of...... You must not have watched more than 1 or 2 Oiler games in the second half. You think that he's an AHLer on most good teams. Good grief, give me a break. Petry was great in the second half outside of a few bad games late in the season, i don't care what anybody says and i'm not one to pump up Oiler players for no reason and check my post history if you don't believe me.
I don't know if Petry will continue this great play into next season but there is no doubt whatsoever that he played great in the second half. Even opposing announcers were marveling at his play in most games.
What i see from some Leafs fans is a ridiculous overrating of Gardiner, just look at the Tor-Edm proposal thread on the trade board. Leafs fans saying that Gardiner is definitely better than Murray and there's no way that they would trade him for the #2 pick?
Really? Good lord!!!!!
I think that Gardiner is a very good young player with a lot of potential but the anointing of him as the next Bobby Orr by some Leafs fans is completely unbearable.
Sorry man but this is a load of...... You must not have watched more than 1 or 2 Oiler games in the second half. You think that he's an AHLer on most good teams. Good grief, give me a break. Petry was great in the second half outside of a few bad games late in the season, i don't care what anybody says and i'm not one to pump up Oiler players for no reason and check my post history if you don't believe me.
I don't know if Petry will continue this great play into next season but there is no doubt whatsoever that he played great in the second half. Even opposing announcers were marveling at his play in most games.
What i see from some Leafs fans is a ridiculous overrating of Gardiner, just look at the Tor-Edm proposal thread on the trade board. Leafs fans saying that Gardiner is definitely better than Murray and there's no way that they would trade him for the #2 pick?
Really? Good lord!!!!!
I think that Gardiner is a very good young player with a lot of potential but the anointing of him as the next Bobby Orr by some Leafs fans is completely unbearable.
I think you are blowing things way out of proportion. Ponder made it clear, at least to me, that Gardiner was overrated as well by most Leafs fans, and I agree with that assessment. I do not see him as a no. 1 at any point in his future, and if he does become one then his development curve would have to shoot up like a rocket. However, I do think he will definitely be better than Petry, who is also three years older than Gardiner to boot. I'm sorry, but I do not see anything more than a No. 4 in him.
Gardiner has the finesse and hockey IQ over Petry, so I'll give him that but Petry's defensive game is better, so he goes up against much more difficult competition. Petry is a more complete defenseman than Gardiner at this point.
The Gardiner hype train is absolutely ridiculous. You'd think he'd be having a Karlsson-like season or something.
I've watched about a dozen Oilers games this year. Petry has always looked like a pretty good skater who's pretty good offensively, but he's been a real defensive liability in the games I've watched, getting regularly beaten badly. It's just my personal opinion from what I've seen of him, but I stand by that opinion.
As for Gardiner, some Leafs fans hype him excessively, just as some Leafs fans hype all Leafs players excessively. Doesn't mean he's a bad player though, he's an elite skater with impressive poise/patience with the puck, a solid offensive skill level, and good promise on the defensive end. Sometimes he has TOO much patience, he often holds onto the puck too long on breakouts (skating into danger when he should have passed it), and he does get burned in his own end decently often, but I see a lot of upside with him on both ends of the ice. He's a 21 year old playing in his first season as a pro (NHL or AHL), and he converted from forward to d relatively late in his career (a year or two before he went to college I believe), so I'm not too worried about the mistakes he makes, he's on a steep part of his learning curve, and his upside is obvious IMO (6'1", elite skater, calm under pressure, solid offensively and shows signs of high defensive upside). I'm not saying he'll fix all his weaknesses right away, but by his mid 20s I expect him to be a really good 2-way dman. Petry is 24, in his 2nd pro season, and stands out less in terms of his skating and general on ice abilities, so I'm less convinced that he'll iron out his weaknesses.
Sorry man but this is a load of...... You must not have watched more than 1 or 2 Oiler games in the second half. You think that he's an AHLer on most good teams. Good grief, give me a break. Petry was great in the second half outside of a few bad games late in the season, i don't care what anybody says and i'm not one to pump up Oiler players for no reason and check my post history if you don't believe me.
I don't know if Petry will continue this great play into next season but there is no doubt whatsoever that he played great in the second half. Even opposing announcers were marveling at his play in most games.
What i see from some Leafs fans is a ridiculous overrating of Gardiner, just look at the Tor-Edm proposal thread on the trade board. Leafs fans saying that Gardiner is definitely better than Murray and there's no way that they would trade him for the #2 pick?
Really? Good lord!!!!!
I think that Gardiner is a very good young player with a lot of potential but the anointing of him as the next Bobby Orr by some Leafs fans is completely unbearable.
Have u ever of the word delusional before? If not, then I suggest u check it out as soon as possible because whichever Leafs fan said that is either smoking damn good crack or really delusional. The most I have ever heard few minority Leafs fans like Kulemon and JMC leaf calling him a franchise d-man which I do think is pretty ridiculous. Just as Ponder, he will most likely end up as a good top-pairing guy who can provide solid offense and decent defense from the back-end. So please stop making some ************ crap that us Leafs have pegged him as a next Bobby Orr.
The only Oilers d-man that sticks out to me is Smid, he is the only that seems to know what to do in his own end and plays very well in that role. I guess u can put Nick Schultz into mix as well since he can play good defensively aside from getting out of position on few ocassions. I don't however think Petry is even close to being as horrible as Ponder mentioned because from what I remember he was average at the start of the year, then he completely fell apart and has re-upped his game the the last 2 months where he didn't look bad defensively. I guess the term " roller coaster" is the best u can describe as Petry's season.
I think Petry has made the most of a bad situation playing top minutes on a 29th placed team, and he has definitely developed in his own right. However, I think Gardiner has outplayed him this year, and considering the age difference, he has a lot more room to improve and grow.
Sorry man but this is a load of...... You must not have watched more than 1 or 2 Oiler games in the second half. You think that he's an AHLer on most good teams. Good grief, give me a break. Petry was great in the second half outside of a few bad games late in the season, i don't care what anybody says and i'm not one to pump up Oiler players for no reason and check my post history if you don't believe me.
I don't know if Petry will continue this great play into next season but there is no doubt whatsoever that he played great in the second half. Even opposing announcers were marveling at his play in most games.
What i see from some Leafs fans is a ridiculous overrating of Gardiner, just look at the Tor-Edm proposal thread on the trade board. Leafs fans saying that Gardiner is definitely better than Murray and there's no way that they would trade him for the #2 pick?
Really? Good lord!!!!!
I think that Gardiner is a very good young player with a lot of potential but the anointing of him as the next Bobby Orr by some Leafs fans is completely unbearable.
I was waiting for your opinion to find it's way in here.
Kudos on calling out the Gardiner=Orr homers, cause they exist and they're annoying.
But seriously Petry is so overrated that it's painful. I've watched 20 Oil games this year SPECIFICALLY watching Petry to see what the big deal is.
I came away thinking that he's a good defenseman but with the crap he's surrounded with, he's bound to look like a defensive messiah. He just simply isn't as good as you guys say he is. I wouldn't go as far as to say that on a playoff team he'd be in the AHL, Ponder, seriously...you're a smart guy...that's a bit of a reach. Well...not a bit. Quite a big one. But on playoff teams he'd probably be the 4th man on the depth chart. I understand when you have a young talented player, especially when they're surrounded by crap, they seem better than they really are. I make too many apologies for Fowler's +/-. He can handle himself, but anytime I've said he's solid defensively, I was being a homer. He still has lapses and has work to do before I can even call him solid.
But really...Petry? No. The way you guys talk about him, you would justify passing Ryan Murray, Matt Dumba, and Jacob Trouba in a situation where you're picking and the best forward available is Forsberg or Faksa. Your defense isn't solved. It's still one of the league's worst. Sure they can play solid for 48 minutes as a unit, but from the games I've watched, you guys had great chances to win games. Your offense provided for you, then your D would brain-fart and you'd let the 2 points slip away. And Petry is as big a part of that as Sutton, Whitney, and the rest.
You guys really need to take a breath and hold your horses with this kid. Your defense isn't solved just because Petry and Smid are playing something that can be viewed as decent.
Last edited by Homeland Security: 04-09-2012 at 08:11 PM.
Reason: Removed QDP
Have u ever of the word delusional before? If not, then I suggest u check it out as soon as possible because whichever Leafs fan said that is either smoking damn good crack or really delusional. The most I have ever heard few minority Leafs fans like Kulemon and JMC leaf calling him a franchise d-man which I do think is pretty ridiculous. Just as Ponder, he will most likely end up as a good top-pairing guy who can provide solid offense and decent defense from the back-end. So please stop making some ************ crap that us Leafs have pegged him as a next Bobby Orr.
The only Oilers d-man that sticks out to me is Smid, he is the only that seems to know what to do in his own end and plays very well in that role. I guess u can put Nick Schultz into mix as well since he can play good defensively aside from getting out of position on few ocassions. I don't however think Petry is even close to being as horrible as Ponder mentioned because from what I remember he was average at the start of the year, then he completely fell apart and has re-upped his game the the last 2 months where he didn't look bad defensively. I guess the term " roller coaster" is the best u can describe as Petry's season.
I said SOME Leafs fans but i guess that any fanbase has those extremists Oilers fans included but it seems like there are a lot of Leafs fans lately that have been going Gardiner crazy. You and Ponder seem like reasonable posters so it's not directed at you guys. I happen to like Gardiner a lot, he clearly has top pairing potential more than Petry but it's not the landslide that some make it out to be IMO, i just hate when certain delusional fans go to extremes with their players.
I would agree with your assessment of Petry's season, it has been a roller coaster but he had a pretty large sample size of very good play once he gained some confidence in the second half of the season although being paired with Smid likely helped him a ton. It shocked me and a lot of Oilers fans because we didn't see him becoming this good this fast or if at all, he really played that well in the second half. However, i don't see him as more than a #2-#3 guy at his peak on a good team but he certainly surprised the hell out of me this season along with Smid who was as good as any Oiler fan could have imagined.
I think that these guys will be strong 2nd pairing guys for the Oilers when they are really good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet
I was waiting for your opinion to find it's way in here.
But really...Petry? No. The way you guys talk about him, you would justify passing Ryan Murray, Matt Dumba, and Jacob Trouba in a situation where you're picking and the best forward available is Forsberg or Faksa. Your defense isn't solved. It's still one of the league's worst. Sure they can play solid for 48 minutes as a unit, but from the games I've watched, you guys had great chances to win games. Your offense provided for you, then your D would brain-fart and you'd let the 2 points slip away. And Petry is as big a part of that as Sutton, Whitney, and the rest.
You guys really need to take a breath and hold your horses with this kid. Your defense isn't solved just because Petry and Smid are playing something that can be viewed as decent.
See my post above, i see Petry as a likely #3 MAYBE #2 guy when the Oilers are good, same with Smid. I happen to like Murray a lot and prefer him to Grigorenko although the Oilers desperately need that #2C also, it's too bad that Gally wasn't healthy this year because i think that he's an ideal fit for the Oilers but it's not meant to be due to his injuries and lost year of development. The hope is that Murray turns into a #1 guy so that Petry and Smid could ideally play on the second pairing, i have really high hopes for Klefbom also. I feel that he has solid #2 potential.
I'll admit that I was overly harsh saying Petry would be in the AHL on most playoff teams. He would be on some playoff teams, but probably not most, that was stream of consciousness typing and I took it a bit far. I will say that he'd be at best a bottom pairing dman at best on almost all playoff teams, and in the AHL on some, but not most. This isn't a comment about his upside, I can certainly see 2nd pairing upside (and can also see Smid/Petry being a solid 2nd pairing in the future), but at the moment I just don't think he's there.
Most playoff teams are very intolerant of inconsistent players prone to mistakes/breakdowns. Just look at the Nucks, Ballard is better than Petry offensively and defensively, and is a bigger hitter, but can't make the team full time over guys like Rome, because in a bottom pairing role the team wants someone who's dependable, who won't cost them goals. Ryan Ellis is extremely talented offensively, but it's the same story in Nashville, he was in and out of the lineup because he wasn't reliable enough in the role they wanted him to play. Voynov was having trouble getting games consistently in LA until they dealt JJ. Brendan Smith only got a handful of games in Detroit, and I think he's quite significantly better than Petry. Saying that Petry wouldn't make most playoff teams is probably an overstatement, but there are certainly a good number of playoff teams that he'd have trouble making, and very few (if any) playoff teams where he'd be a top 4 dman right now. He'd even have trouble making some bad teams, my Leafs for example are pretty terrible, but Franson was in and out of the lineup, and I think he's better than Petry at the moment. That's not to say that Petry doesn't have top 4 UPSIDE, but on a good team you wouldn't want him in a top 4 role at the moment. Gardiner is IMO a touch better right now, is the more stand-out player with his skating, and is 21 vs. 24, so I prefer his upside by a pretty solid margin.
Gardiner is a former 1st round pick in a very strong draft class. He probably should be better than Petry.
...with that said, Petry is good. Did he get burned this season? Yeah...but that's because he's a #4/5 Dman that was asked to be a #1. Of course he was going to make mistakes. But he made a lot less mistakes than he probably should have given the situation he was in. I definitely wouldn't describe him as a liability out there. Especially in the 2nd half the season. He was a large part of the Oilers success in the 2nd half. It was like they just randomly added another top4 Dman. He made Gilbert expendable.
Taking Gardiner over Petry makes sense...but let's not underrate Petry just to make a point. Edmonton has plenty of young talent to be excited about. We don't need to overrate Petry. He took a huge step forward this season and was definitely one of the biggest surprises.
Gardiner for sure ... kid is really something special
he's calm, poised, and an amazing skater... has a good shot, and finally started using it after the 1st half of the season... before ALL he did was pass (felt like watching Kaberle on the powerplay lol) he made some mistakes, but was probably the 2nd most reliable dman in our own zone this year behind Gunnarsson. but man could this kid fly down the ice and just blow past opposing players ...
first Leaf rookie dman to eclipse the 30 point mark in around 25 years (iirc)
I said SOME Leafs fans but i guess that any fanbase has those extremists Oilers fans included but it seems like there are a lot of Leafs fans lately that have been going Gardiner crazy. You and Ponder seem like reasonable posters so it's not directed at you guys. I happen to like Gardiner a lot, he clearly has top pairing potential more than Petry but it's not the landslide that some make it out to be IMO, i just hate when certain delusional fans go to extremes with their players.
I would agree with your assessment of Petry's season, it has been a roller coaster but he had a pretty large sample size of very good play once he gained some confidence in the second half of the season although being paired with Smid likely helped him a ton. It shocked me and a lot of Oilers fans because we didn't see him becoming this good this fast or if at all, he really played that well in the second half. However, i don't see him as more than a #2-#3 guy at his peak on a good team but he certainly surprised the hell out of me this season along with Smid who was as good as any Oiler fan could have imagined.
I think that these guys will be strong 2nd pairing guys for the Oilers when they are really good.
See my post above, i see Petry as a likely #3 MAYBE #2 guy when the Oilers are good, same with Smid. I happen to like Murray a lot and prefer him to Grigorenko although the Oilers desperately need that #2C also, it's too bad that Gally wasn't healthy this year because i think that he's an ideal fit for the Oilers but it's not meant to be due to his injuries and lost year of development. The hope is that Murray turns into a #1 guy so that Petry and Smid could ideally play on the second pairing, i have really high hopes for Klefbom also. I feel that he has solid #2 potential.
Ok. At least we're being reasonable now. Klefbom...I don't know. I mean on your blueline, yeah. But he seems more like a MAB type than a Doughty-lite.
Gardiner is a former 1st round pick in a very strong draft class. He probably should be better than Petry.
...with that said, Petry is good. Did he get burned this season? Yeah...but that's because he's a #4/5 Dman that was asked to be a #1. Of course he was going to make mistakes. But he made a lot less mistakes than he probably should have given the situation he was in. I definitely wouldn't describe him as a liability out there. Especially in the 2nd half the season. He was a large part of the Oilers success in the 2nd half. It was like they just randomly added another top4 Dman. He made Gilbert expendable.
Taking Gardiner over Petry makes sense...but let's not underrate Petry just to make a point. Edmonton has plenty of young talent to be excited about. We don't need to overrate Petry. He took a huge step forward this season and was definitely one of the biggest surprises.
That's fine. An emerging player is an emerging player. It's good to get excited about a player's upswing and potential. But it's also important to stay grounded recognize their skills in context. Some of your fans were trying to sell me on Petry being a number one defender that almost every team would drool over having.
Petry blew my mind this year, he took giant leaps and bounds in his game and was pretty solid for a large portion of this season.
There was 30 game stretch where he looked like a legitimate first pairing defenseman. I'm not going to bother with all the uninformed posts in here but if you guys who are saying Petry is terrible or AINEC you need to watch Jeff play this season.
Put it this way, Petry was playing so damn good that the Oilers decided that they didn't need Tom Gilbert anymore... The guy who was playing 30 minutes a night every game the Oilers just decided they didn't need because Petry was that good this year.
Yes theres videos of him getting burned, it happens to young dmen. He was surprisingly consistent this season. The Oilers are luckly that he's starting to break through, he looks like a legit top 4 for many many years to come.
Duckjet passionately hates the Oilers, it's weird. I'm indifferent about the Ducks. /shrug
Petry blew my mind this year, he took giant leaps and bounds in his game and was pretty solid for a large portion of this season.
There was 30 game stretch where he looked like a legitimate first pairing defenseman. I'm not going to bother with all the uninformed posts in here but if you guys who are saying Petry is terrible or AINEC you need to watch Jeff play this season.
Put it this way, Petry was playing so damn good that the Oilers decided that they didn't need Tom Gilbert anymore... The guy who was playing 30 minutes a night every game the Oilers just decided they didn't need because Petry was that good this year.
Yes theres videos of him getting burned, it happens to young dmen. He was surprisingly consistent this season. The Oilers are luckly that he's starting to break through, he looks like a legit top 4 for many many years to come.
Duckjet passionately hates the Oilers, it's weird. I'm indifferent about the Ducks. /shrug
that's all dandy
but when comparing Petry to Gardiner, Gardiner is the better one
Gardiner was doing everything that you listed above, but took them to a higher degree
i like Petry and think he will be a solid #4 (maybe #3) for the Oilers when they are contenders
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