I'm not trying to troll, but in honesty, do you guys actually consider Petry a part of your core? Or do you think that you still need a #1D man?
Undoubtedly a major part of our core moving forward. He's 24 but a late physical bloomer and an NCAA prospect which typically take longer to develop, I honestly think he can be our Anchor and a top 10 defensman in this league (though his offensive shortcomings might rob him of being touted as such). Right now it will take another couple of huge development years for him to live up to his potential, and the team would be better off looking for a more sure thing for the time being.
I'm not trying to troll, but in honesty, do you guys actually consider Petry a part of your core? Or do you think that you still need a #1D man?
He has the potential to be a top pairing defenseman. He has really made strides during this season. He had a stretch of games where he was flawless and looked exactly like a #1D man should.
I'm not trying to troll, but in honesty, do you guys actually consider Petry a part of your core? Or do you think that you still need a #1D man?
Absolutely. He is definitely part of the core moving forward.
I have no doubt in my mind that he burned out towards the end of the season. He was playing a very rounded game and making very few mistakes for a long stretch of games while playing #1 minutes. That said, I don't see #1 potential in him, though with experience and conditioning I can see him rounding into a solid #2.
Admittedly, I've seen more of Petry than Gardiner this year (all the Oilers games and only 40-50 Toronto games), but I see their ceilings as fairly similar, though very different styles. Gardiner is much more offensively oriented and will likely post better numbers, where Petry is a more rounded defenseman (think Karlsson-lite vs Pietrangelo-lite).
Both will be damn good players in their own right, but I'd give the edge to Gardiner right now. That could change with more of a sample size, but that's how I see it right now.
Undoubtedly a major part of our core moving forward. He's 24 but a late physical bloomer and an NCAA prospect which typically take longer to develop, I honestly think he can be our Anchor and a top 10 defensman in this league (though his offensive shortcomings might rob him of being touted as such). Right now it will take another couple of huge development years for him to live up to his potential, and the team would be better off looking for a more sure thing for the time being.
I've kind of given up trusting Oiler/Leaf fans to be objective when gauging their own defense. Too many past summers of "top 5 defense" and "human eraser" and "Whitney's a bonafide #1" (Duck and Pens fans chuckle). I haven't watched THAT much of Gardiner but I'm taking Leaf fans opinions with a grain of salt.
Gardiner will never get beaten in an equal race because he is amongst the the top skaters in the league. Petry gets beaten much more often.
Gardiner's 2nd half of the season was MUCH more impressive. he was playing at a 45ish point pace during the 2nd half, and was probably the only bright spot on the Leafs D-core. The kid controlled the game with his speed. He skated circles around the other team ... (literally, go check out his goal against the sabres lol)
All while the Leafs were nosediving faster than a 747, I guess Bobby Orr could not stop the dive
Undoubtedly a major part of our core moving forward. He's 24 but a late physical bloomer and an NCAA prospect which typically take longer to develop, I honestly think he can be our Anchor and a top 10 defensman in this league (though his offensive shortcomings might rob him of being touted as such). Right now it will take another couple of huge development years for him to live up to his potential, and the team would be better off looking for a more sure thing for the time being.
I don't get how a rookie D with the kind of skillet he has and putting up 30 points in his rookie season while playing 23 minutes tonight and being the best D on his team is overrated.
Petry? He's more like a Schenn that is worse defensively and equal offensively (Schenn had 2 20 point seasons, Petry hit 25 this year, 3 points more, big deal). Let's face it, his ceiling is a 2nd pairing #3/4 d in his prime. A dime-a-dozen serviceable guy that should be in the NHL and not the AHL, essentially what Schenn sadly seems to be going towards (except he's still got higher potential and is still worth more than Petry).
You do realize that Gardiner only had 5 more pts than Petry in 2 more games while getting much more PP time, don't you? So if Petry is a dime a dozen servicable Schenn clone then Gardiner isn't much better.
Seriously, this thread is a disaster. Most of you have no clue about Petry, it's ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGARV
Undoubtedly a major part of our core moving forward. He's 24 but a late physical bloomer and an NCAA prospect which typically take longer to develop, I honestly think he can be our Anchor and a top 10 defensman in this league (though his offensive shortcomings might rob him of being touted as such). Right now it will take another couple of huge development years for him to live up to his potential, and the team would be better off looking for a more sure thing for the time being.
All while the Leafs were nosediving faster than a 747, I guess Bobby Orr could not stop the dive
He's a rookie defensemen that stepped up when the team was playing bad... I don't know what you expect? Unless you really do think he's the next Bobby Orr.
You HAVE to know this type of poll question is going to wind up meaning absolutely nothing. For starters, they're BOTH solid. Which is "better"? It's open for legit debate, but not as seen by many of the previous posts.
The vast majority of pro-Gardiner votes are either Leaf (surprise, surprise) or Canuck fans as evidenced by their avatars and locations. Leaf fans are as blind and as biased as fans of any team. And Canuck fans want to run down any Flame or Oiler (and vice versa among the 3 fan bases).
Petry always gets burned, huh? How many of you are commenting after having watched Booth school him on Saturday night for his goal? Pretty fresh in your mind, so draw the conclusion. Easily done, but it's such a small sample it's worth little.
People love Gardiner partly because he's shown a hell of a lot this year, but also because he's watched by millions thanks to the Leaf exposure. Western teams get little because by the time the Saturday night game is underway, all the Eastern watchers are already gooned and/or unconscious.
Here's the deal for the uneducated (or gooned or unconscious):
Petry played in Edmonton in the early part of the year on account of an overall weak defense of the Oilers. He had played solidly in the AHL and earned a look, but for the most part, wasn't ready. But as injuries and a lack of depth took their toll, he continued to get lots of opportunity. The first half of the year, he didn't look ready - he was experiencing baptism by fire. The second half of the year he began to show that he was grounded. He had a consistent partner (Smid), and they gelled. He's been great with the stick, position, skating, and a first pass. He's played increasingly physical and has shown plenty of poise.
Has he channeled Orr, Coffey, or Bourque? No. Pretty sure he's a 3/4. Has he improved dramatically over the course of this year? Yes. Ease up on your quick draw conclusions, folks. Gardiner may well be "better" and might end up as such... but all this AINEC crap is pure blindness.
All while the Leafs were nosediving faster than a 747, I guess Bobby Orr could not stop the dive
And they still couldn't reach the low that the almighty Oilers have achieved this season (and the past few for that matter). Tossing boulders in a glass house.
As an Oilers fan, I have to take Gardiner. Both made giant leaps this year in terms of production both offensively and defensively. But I think Gardiner has the bigger upside. Petry is likely a 3-4 PP quarterback, while Gardiner could be a decent 1-2.
When this year began, I had pretty much given up on Petry much like Chorney, but he improved immensely. He still had some major mistakes especially in the last few weeks, but he began a good player. Oilers are a better team with Petry now, but I would take Gardiner.
The vast majority of pro-Gardiner votes are either Leaf (surprise, surprise) or Canuck fans as evidenced by their avatars and locations. Leaf fans are as blind and as biased as fans of any team. And Canuck fans want to run down any Flame or Oiler (and vice versa among the 3 fan bases).
Do you not find it strange that Habs and Sens fans have been voting for Gardiner? Oiler fans are just as bad as Leaf fans for homerism. You'll come here and defend Petry to the bitter end even if he is clearly a tier below Gardiner in play and potential.
Do you not find it strange that Habs and Sens fans have been voting for Gardiner? Oiler fans are just as bad as Leaf fans for homerism. You'll come here and defend Petry to the bitter end even if he is clearly a tier below Gardiner in play and potential.
Oy, did you even read the rest of his post? I guess you were going to draw your own conclusions no matter what he said. All he said was that non-Oiler fans are uneducated about Petry (based on the posts in this thread) because he gets less exposure which couldn't be more true but then fully acknowledged that Gardiner might very well end up better but that Petry is being criminally undersold in this thread.
I also picked Gardiner so there's 2 Oiler fans for ya so there you go. Oh and the Oiler fan who posted right above you as well so give your head a shake.
Oy, did you even read the rest of his post? I guess you were going to draw your own conclusions no matter what he said. All he said was that non-Oiler fans are uneducated about Petry (based on the posts in this thread) because he gets less exposure which couldn't be more true but then fully acknowledged that Gardiner might very well end up better but that Petry is being criminally undersold in this thread.
I also picked Gardiner so there's 2 Oiler fans for ya so there you go. Oh and the Oiler fan who posted right above you as well so give your head a shake.
No, what he said was that the majority of people voting for Gardiner were uneducated, biased, or just didn't like the Oilers. He neglects to mention that pretty much the ONLY votes for Petry are Oilers fans, that alone should point to you where the biased posters are sitting.
No, what he said was that the majority of people voting for Gardiner were uneducated, biased, or just didn't like the Oilers. He neglects to mention that pretty much the ONLY votes for Petry are Oilers fans, that alone should point to you where the biased posters are sitting.
I believe based on the tone of his post if you read further down that he was pointing out that those non-Oiler fans were uneducated about Petry's game not that they were uneducated for picking Gardiner and that to say it's AINEC it's pretty ridiculous and i tend to agree. I don't see the big separation between the two as of now although Gardiner likely has more upside.
That would be Jared Cowen. It was funny seeing his positive attributes go from tangible to intangible as the season progressed.
If Jared Cowen was a Maple Leaf, the Scott Stevens comparisons would be out in full force. I've watched Jake Gardiner play and he looks pretty impressive, but my God is he ever overrated, it's legitimately embarrassing.
He goes up against top lines because the Oilers D sucks
And Gardiner plays on a much better d-core? The stats would say otherwise. As much as Toronto fans like to drool about their defense on paper, it's definitely bottom third in the league.
I was waiting for your opinion to find it's way in here.
Kudos on calling out the Gardiner=Orr homers, cause they exist and they're annoying.
But seriously Petry is so overrated that it's painful. I've watched 20 Oil games this year SPECIFICALLY watching Petry to see what the big deal is.
I came away thinking that he's a good defenseman but with the crap he's surrounded with, he's bound to look like a defensive messiah. He just simply isn't as good as you guys say he is. I wouldn't go as far as to say that on a playoff team he'd be in the AHL, Ponder, seriously...you're a smart guy...that's a bit of a reach. Well...not a bit. Quite a big one. But on playoff teams he'd probably be the 4th man on the depth chart. I understand when you have a young talented player, especially when they're surrounded by crap, they seem better than they really are. I make too many apologies for Fowler's +/-. He can handle himself, but anytime I've said he's solid defensively, I was being a homer. He still has lapses and has work to do before I can even call him solid.
But really...Petry? No. The way you guys talk about him, you would justify passing Ryan Murray, Matt Dumba, and Jacob Trouba in a situation where you're picking and the best forward available is Forsberg or Faksa. Your defense isn't solved. It's still one of the league's worst. Sure they can play solid for 48 minutes as a unit, but from the games I've watched, you guys had great chances to win games. Your offense provided for you, then your D would brain-fart and you'd let the 2 points slip away. And Petry is as big a part of that as Sutton, Whitney, and the rest.
You guys really need to take a breath and hold your horses with this kid. Your defense isn't solved just because Petry and Smid are playing something that can be viewed as decent.
I hardly ever agree with your assessments on Oilers players, but I agree with pretty much everything you say here. I think we definitely have to temper our expectations, Petry could simply just be shining due to the fact that he's surrounded by some pretty awful defense men.
