I still think Kostityn showed more sportsmenship ( let's face it, he's probably one of the weakest minds the habs ever had along with odjick and others ) at least they showed heart into the game. And that's exactly what Bourque lacks, heart, it was an issue with Calgary and it's a lot worst in Montreal. The man probably needs a buddy or two to motivate him on the ice Plekanec is a loner that shows a lot more professionalism than most players in the organization apart from our first line but he's not a leader. Back with the Kovalev, Kostityn line, Kovy was the catalyst as was Gionta the year after.
(1) Is Hrudey a good analyst and a reliable journalist? Legit question here – I don't know him well. (EDIT: btw he said "he should apologise to his teammates" not "he did apologise".)
True, he said that he "should apologize". As far as analyst and "reliable" journalist, remember that we're commenting on work ethic here. If we were dissecting systems, or something else, we could step back a bit and think about who the messenger is. But as a 14+ year NHL veteran, I think he's more than qualified to comment on how hard players seem to be working; especially a player on a team that Hrudey watches so much (every Flames game, as mentioned in the video).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin
(2) If Bourque is such a lazy player how did he manage to score 27 goals during two seasons in a row before joining us?
Some good bounces playing with good players in roles that he hasn't earned here yet. Look, even Hrudey thinks this guys has the tools to be a "top" scorer in the league, but the warning signs have been there for a bit now. Another Hrudey quote to leave you with from November:
“It just really boils me … because I played with a lot of guys that loved the game, guys that really cared. That after a game they get in their car if they haven’t played well … they’re really mad and they vow to go to practice the next day and be good and then try for their teammates to be good the next game, and I don’t see any of that (in Bourque).”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin
I am not his biggest fan and I fully realise that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair from time to time but if he gives us 20 goals next season while playing on 3rd with Eller and Moen (shut down line - Bourque played that role for us alongside Darche + Plekanec and he did a good job), I'd be a happy fan.
Again: people need to realise that 20 something goals scorer are, by definition, streaky. That's why most fans include them under the label "secondary scoring".
Problem is, this team doesn't need players who can coast to 20+ goals. Wasn't that people's issue with A.Kost? It needs players who compete and make the team hard to play against (which I think A.Kost did in his own way), and those goals should be seen as "rewards" for hard work or "a bonus". Neither Plekanec nor DD nor Eller got to 20 goals this year, for example, but it was the rest of what they did that contributed to what little success we were witness to this year. I don't think anyone would trade the contribution in all zones of one of them for a Rene Bourque that somehow floats to 20 goals but is essentially "absent" from the other 17:30 he's on the ice in a given night - especially in the defensive end, where this year's squad needed the most help.
LOL @ Bourque scoring 20 in a 3rd line role next year, btw. Just not going to happen. I think he's just a broken man (physically/mentally) after a shoulder injury to end '09/10, followed by a concussion to start '10/11 (collision with Westgarth), followed by two suspensions for questionable hits in '11/12.
As soon as you get a guy who *needs* the push, it's trouble to begin with. Whether he ultimately gets a push or not, sooner or later it will come back to haunt us.
He's waay more of a tease than AK was, for example. (Because, well... he has done NOTHING). At least even when AK was in a funk you got the sense he *should* be doing something, that he was *capable* of doing something. With Bourque... wow, I don't even see that much to hope for.
Anyway, I don't see us being lucky enough to move him, so I'll just have to hope he comes in re-focused, and indeed that our new coach finds some trick to motivate him, and he has a decent season, or at least decent enough that our new GM can eventually find a taker.
Going to hold onto my suspicions even if he does start well next year.
Yup, you're right. And when the player is a 30 year old vet, the opportunity for teaching him how to care is right out the window. He really is a useless lump of a player right now.
But he has size and we save on the cap over Cammy right?
Yes indeedy. Although as the draft approaches and a few of those teams out there start rumbling about how they plan to add a top-6 forward, and you know that none/few are going to be there on July 1st, I wonder if there would have been any Tanguay-ish trade opportunities out there had we held onto Cammy a bit longer. Well, wishful thinking. Holland and what might be a pretty high 2nd are pretty good anyway. But another 1st (and zero Bourque-ish cap hit) might have been nice too.
Yes indeedy. Although as the draft approaches and a few of those teams out there start rumbling about how they plan to add a top-6 forward, and you know that none/few are going to be there on July 1st, I wonder if there would have been any Tanguay-ish trade opportunities out there had we held onto Cammy a bit longer. Well, wishful thinking. Holland and what might be a pretty high 2nd are pretty good anyway. But another 1st (and zero Bourque-ish cap hit) might have been nice too.
Perhaps if they held onto him through the off-season but his value also could have gone down even more if say he played even worse since not many teams out there imo are willing to add guys that make 7M a year for 2 more years but especially when they are smallish, not the quickest and one dimensional. Look at how silly the flames look now, they add a guy that they have to pay 7M for the next 2 seasons, give up a 2nd in what could an outstanding draft class and a prospect that had a big year in the dub. Granted if Cammy looks like he did pre-Hab days and they make the playoffs next year it won't look so silly but if not they gave up a lot of little return.
I still think Kostityn showed more sportsmenship ( let's face it, he's probably one of the weakest minds the habs ever had along with odjick and others ) at least they showed heart into the game. And that's exactly what Bourque lacks, heart, it was an issue with Calgary and it's a lot worst in Montreal. The man probably needs a buddy or two to motivate him on the ice Plekanec is a loner that shows a lot more professionalism than most players in the organization apart from our first line but he's not a leader. Back with the Kovalev, Kostityn line, Kovy was the catalyst as was Gionta the year after.
What? It was rare to see AK46 try to take the puck from an opponent in the offensive zone, let alone in the defensive zone. His backcheck was literally non-existent. Bourque is actually pretty terrible in battles along the boards, but at least he attempts to fight for the puck and always backchecks.
Yes indeedy. Although as the draft approaches and a few of those teams out there start rumbling about how they plan to add a top-6 forward, and you know that none/few are going to be there on July 1st, I wonder if there would have been any Tanguay-ish trade opportunities out there had we held onto Cammy a bit longer. Well, wishful thinking. Holland and what might be a pretty high 2nd are pretty good anyway. But another 1st (and zero Bourque-ish cap hit) might have been nice too.
Even if we did the Cammalleri deal without adding Bourque, we'd have to find 2 guys to replace Cammy and AK next year, assuming Plekanec-Gionta and Eller-Moen/LeBlanc/UFA are 2/3 of your 2nd and 3rd lines, you still have to go out and get a 50-60 point 2nd liner and 20-25-45 3rd liner, which would have cost at least 3.3 mil if not more and would probably come in a smaller package than Bourque.
As much as Bourque struggled, sometimes the best value is guys with bounce back years. Let him rebound next year then trade him for a young asset once LeBlanc is ready for a full time top 9 role in 2013-2014.
Yes indeedy. Although as the draft approaches and a few of those teams out there start rumbling about how they plan to add a top-6 forward, and you know that none/few are going to be there on July 1st, I wonder if there would have been any Tanguay-ish trade opportunities out there had we held onto Cammy a bit longer. Well, wishful thinking. Holland and what might be a pretty high 2nd are pretty good anyway. But another 1st (and zero Bourque-ish cap hit) might have been nice too.
Well, Burke said in his press conference today that he wants the Leafs to get bigger and tougher. Maybe we can con him out of another 1st rounder for Bourque?
He whined ? I've never seen him whining. I've see him say he's gotta step it up. The coach talked to him, called him out and heard him say he agreed. If he whined, would you care to provide proof ?
The guy missed great opportunities, that's for sure. He did well on the pk, hit posts and he set linemates up who completely whiffed on the play, too. A little more luck and could have easily had another 3 goals 3 assists which would give him 20 goals and close to 30 points, which is pretty good for a 3rd liner forced to play 2nd line minutes due to injuries, bingo and lack of depth at his position.
A guy who can hit 20 goals, be physical at times. Kill pks and can defend himself for 3.4 is a solid deal.
Let's not forget he is a streaky player coming over to a struggling team trying to get use to new teammates, then lost confidence in himself.
People are so ****ing dumb here. I'm sure a lot of you were outside the Bell Centre crying for Kovalev to be re-signed.
I don't know exactly why, but I was pleased that Gauthier traded Cammalleri. He did zilch for the Habs this past season and I wouldn't have expected any better next season. I'll bet Calgary isn't thrilled with him, just relieved to be able to get rid of Bourque even though it cost them a second rounder, a prospect, and some money. It seems to have made neither team happy, so it must have been a fair trade
Well, Burke said in his press conference today that he wants the Leafs to get bigger and tougher. Maybe we can con him out of another 1st rounder for Bourque?
Oh well, it's a nice dream.
I'd trade Bourque for a 3rd right now. Maybe even a 7th. I guess I'm just not optimistic at all about his long-term odds of succeeding for us. His cap hit *is* fair/good for a guy who can average 20-30 goals. Even if they come in inconsistent bunches. But jeez, I just haven't even seen that potential from him as a Hab. And nothing that makes his "size" a selling point in his game either. I'd cut and run if I could.
Get rid of him, a player shouldn't be on our team if he doesn't fit into our future plans, or has a defined role for the present. Let's not make the same mistake Toronto did with guys like Blake and Armstrong.
I'd trade Bourque for a 3rd right now. Maybe even a 7th. I guess I'm just not optimistic at all about his long-term odds of succeeding for us. His cap hit *is* fair/good for a guy who can average 20-30 goals. Even if they come in inconsistent bunches. But jeez, I just haven't even seen that potential from him as a Hab. And nothing that makes his "size" a selling point in his game either. I'd cut and run if I could.
We should sign Boyes and Penner and make a line of Bourque-Boyes-Penner. All three had 20g/50(ish)pts the year before so they can motivate each other by not wanting to be the guy who crashed the hardest. Either that or we got ourselves a horrible line.
Unless you have GOD given talent like Crosby or Malkin, you never look at a hockey player by stats. Besides this is the East you have to be a 2-way guy.
Tell that to our former GM. He had proven successful two-way guys in Moore, Lapierre and Pyatt and let every one of them go for low salaries to boot!!
I'd trade Bourque for a 3rd right now. Maybe even a 7th. I guess I'm just not optimistic at all about his long-term odds of succeeding for us. His cap hit *is* fair/good for a guy who can average 20-30 goals. Even if they come in inconsistent bunches. But jeez, I just haven't even seen that potential from him as a Hab. And nothing that makes his "size" a selling point in his game either. I'd cut and run if I could.
You don't have to convince me man. I thought the deal was terrible the second we made it.
That's an outrageous insult to Moen. Moen gives everything every shift and his willing to put his body on the line for the team.
Bourque has a nicer shot but he's an indifferent headless chicken with skates.
Yeah if Moen and Bourque would of played 82 games each, I'm pretty Moen would of had an overall bigger impact and his +/- would of be way higher than Bourque's but of course Bourque would of got more points.
I'd trade Bourque for a 3rd right now. Maybe even a 7th. I guess I'm just not optimistic at all about his long-term odds of succeeding for us. His cap hit *is* fair/good for a guy who can average 20-30 goals. Even if they come in inconsistent bunches. But jeez, I just haven't even seen that potential from him as a Hab. And nothing that makes his "size" a selling point in his game either. I'd cut and run if I could.
Trading Bourque right now would be a panic move and a bad one.
So you trade him and get very little in return, then have to turn around and try and sign a similar player and end up paying more while he has a big bounce back year elswhere.
At 3.3 mil I think he is a good fit with Eller on the 3rd line, gives him the proper "kick in the pants" to bounce back and it provides depth for the top 6 if somebody gets hurt or isn't producing. You leave the DD line intact. Fine a skilled winger for Plekanec and Gionta and stick Moen(or UFA) with Eller and Bourque.
