Not the best game once again for Grigorenko tonight.
He did score, but it was one Fucale definitely should have had (bad angle, weak shot). He has elite hands, vision and passing, no doubt. But I can see the questions about his compete level/consistency (which I brought up earlier here and got ripped for). He needs to compete harder, even if he's injured.
He has the ability to protect the puck well - with his size and puck handling - but too often he gets knocked off the puck. He doesn't win many battles along the boards either, which doesn't bode well for the next level.
I don't want to come off as 'anti-Grigorenko', because I really want to like this player (especially being a Leaf fan), but he has a lot to work on despite his high potential, IMO.
he is still hurt too eh...he still has the ankle injury...I would not judge him based on these he is not playing even at 90% right now, I say he is around 75%
he is still hurt too eh...he still has the ankle injury...I would not judge him based on these he is not playing even at 90% right now, I say he is around 75%
Perhaps similar to Couturier who had the post mono situation last season and created some concerns with regard to his compete level (likely contributing to his drop in the draft).
i will say though Grigorenko has to improve his work ethic...he is starting to remind me too much of Alexei Yashin wehre the skill level makes you drool but he picks what games he wants to play...skill wise he is up there with Yakupov but competitve level and ability to put up with physical play is not there.
I am still hoping that the rumours about his work ethic are just rumours. Really wanted him for the Oilers but that's never going to happen now. Goodbye, Grigorenko! He's going to be a solid NHLer in the future.
i will say though Grigorenko has to improve his work ethic...he is starting to remind me too much of Alexei Yashin wehre the skill level makes you drool but he picks what games he wants to play...skill wise he is up there with Yakupov but competitve level and ability to put up with physical play is not there.
Alexei Yashin? That's about as damning praise as you can put on a player. I know what your saying, but I think Grigorenko's attitude is much better and and is much more coachable. I think under the right tutelege, he can grow into player that will be very important for some team. I'm also wondering about burnout for this kid. I'm betting its his first year playing a high amount of games.
It seems that if a player isn't a flyer and runs around all over the ice creating havoc, well he must be lazy. There is such a thing as sound positional hockey which is equally as important, especially for centers.
Alexei Yashin? That's about as damning praise as you can put on a player. I know what your saying, but I think Grigorenko's attitude is much better and and is much more coachable. I think under the right tutelege, he can grow into player that will be very important for some team. I'm also wondering about burnout for this kid. I'm betting its his first year playing a high amount of games.
It seems that if a player isn't a flyer and runs around all over the ice creating havoc, well he must be lazy. There is such a thing as sound positional hockey which is equally as important, especially for centers.
hey there was not a supporter like Grigorenko than me and I still love the kid...and I know sound positional play opposed to lazy and he picks his times on the ice to play the game higher tempo, when the other team has the puck he glides around, when his team has the puck he is skating but he lacks that burst onto loose pucks that are arms lengths away, when he looses the puck he lacks that extra fight to get it back...I know sound play I do not need a lesson in that I been a scout for 10 years...the kid right now is playing hurt and he is probably more talented Yakupov IMO he has that vision and playmaking to go along with a great shot he is more well rounded in the offensive zone than Yakupov is BUT he needs someone to light a fire under his belt, he will need another year in Quebec and if a team brings him right up they will be rushing him too fast, he needs to fill out more, needs to get a lot stronger.
Quick question here it has stat headings of S and SOG and his #'s in those categories are 196 and 102 respectively. WTH are the S's? And did he score 40 goals on 102 shots on goal? Are the S's shots directed at goal and includes blocked shots, shots wide, etc.?
he is still hurt too eh...he still has the ankle injury...I would not judge him based on these he is not playing even at 90% right now, I say he is around 75%
I'm sure he is injured, and I'm waiting to hear on the extent of it.
That being said, an ankle injury shouldn't affect his compete level. It doesn't change his ability to battle along the boards, not turnover the puck etc. He needs to be better shift-in-shift-out, IMO, and I'm hoping for that on Friday.
I can't speak for last night, but I saw the game on Tuesday and I was amazed at how invisible he was. Other than some good plays on the PP it seemed like Roy was keeping him off a lot. I was watching for him and he was not on the ice much.
Contrast him with Frk and MacKinnon, who were noticible every time they stepped on the ice.
I know 2 games doesn't tell the whole story about a player, but I went into Game 3 of Halifax-Quebec series thinking Grigorenko was the sure fire pick for Habs (my team) 3rd overall. I read some of the weaknesses and concerns before the games but didn't want to believe them until I seen him for myself.
I have to say- and it hurts me to b/c I wanted him to be the big, number 1 center the Habs have needed for years- he is not a player to build a team around. Not at all. He's basically unnoticeable for 75% of the game.
I don't even think it's his work ethic that is the issue. It's his playing style. He rarely carries the puck. I would assume that's because he doesn't have top speed. What he does have, though, is elite passing skills. He passes first and passes often, unless he has a clear shot at the net. In my opinion, if he reaches full potential he's Joe Thornton-lite but less physical (Joe was never known to be physical - so take that how it sounds). He is so uninvolved physically and in puck retrieval that it's alarming. He doesn't play a style of game that can simply take over a game. He's no Malkin - that's for sure.
He does have a very quick and lethal wrist shot though (when he uses it). Combine that with his elite passing and size and I can see why scouts are so high on him. I just think every other part of his game is so lacking that he will never be a #1 center. Maybe on a weaker team with good scoring wingers, but he can't dominate a game. Combine that with the Russian factor and I would be very nervous selecting him at #3.
Obviously with his size, passing and shot he could change/grow into a top player. It's just every other facet of his game that bothers me - and at #3, he's way too much of a project/risk.
hey there was not a supporter like Grigorenko than me and I still love the kid...and I know sound positional play opposed to lazy and he picks his times on the ice to play the game higher tempo, when the other team has the puck he glides around, when his team has the puck he is skating but he lacks that burst onto loose pucks that are arms lengths away, when he looses the puck he lacks that extra fight to get it back...I know sound play I do not need a lesson in that I been a scout for 10 years...the kid right now is playing hurt and he is probably more talented Yakupov IMO he has that vision and playmaking to go along with a great shot he is more well rounded in the offensive zone than Yakupov is BUT he needs someone to light a fire under his belt, he will need another year in Quebec and if a team brings him right up they will be rushing him too fast, he needs to fill out more, needs to get a lot stronger.
Think some of the knocks on his work ethic and just picking apart his game are more due to his exposure? Meaning, due to the injuries of other top forward prospects (and early playoff exits for some) more eyes are on Grigorenko?
Just seems like work ethic issues have sprung up all of a sudden. Or has this been something consistent with Grigorenko?
hey there was not a supporter like Grigorenko than me and I still love the kid...and I know sound positional play opposed to lazy and he picks his times on the ice to play the game higher tempo, when the other team has the puck he glides around, when his team has the puck he is skating but he lacks that burst onto loose pucks that are arms lengths away, when he looses the puck he lacks that extra fight to get it back...I know sound play I do not need a lesson in that I been a scout for 10 years...the kid right now is playing hurt and he is probably more talented Yakupov IMO he has that vision and playmaking to go along with a great shot he is more well rounded in the offensive zone than Yakupov is BUT he needs someone to light a fire under his belt, he will need another year in Quebec and if a team brings him right up they will be rushing him too fast, he needs to fill out more, needs to get a lot stronger.
i'm not calling you out or anything. I respect your work on here. It just seems on Grigorenko, there is a lot of pulling on the ends with this kid, when the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Whoever drafts Grigorenko will have to understand that he may not be the offensive catalyst for their team, but he will be a very important piece for their team going forward.
He is starting to be labeled as the slighty more offensive, less defensive version of Couturier in hockey circles and I don't think thats right. He just seems to be getting an unnecessary rap.
he is still hurt too eh...he still has the ankle injury...I would not judge him based on these he is not playing even at 90% right now, I say he is around 75%
Sounds like an excuse to play poorly. I heard he played well last night, so I hope he keeps it up, but he definately needs to play better in the POs.
Not that the POs should really make or break a top prospect's status. RNH had 2 points against Medicine Hat in the second round last year iirc.
i'm not calling you out or anything. I respect your work on here. It just seems on Grigorenko, there is a lot of pulling on the ends with this kid, when the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Whoever drafts Grigorenko will have to understand that he may not be the offensive catalyst for their team, but he will be a very important piece for their team going forward.
He is starting to be labeled as the slighty more offensive, less defensive version of Couturier in hockey circles and I don't think thats right. He just seems to be getting an unnecessary rap.
myself he has the talent, what ever team drafts him is and your right is going to have to understand with him, I think another year of Junior would do him good...i know when i saw him live many times, before injury he was doing great, one shift he looked like a superstar in the making and the next shift he was invisiable, i have been sticking up for him for a bit, and the rumor is he is still hurt but i have to say though when he looses the puck he does not try hard to get it back which is starting to bother me, he goes in traffic he will loose the puck then not attempt to reach for it to get it back. My Yashin comment came because like Yashin he has a great deal of talent but sometimes he looks like he just does not care on the ice.
Quick question here it has stat headings of S and SOG and his #'s in those categories are 196 and 102 respectively. WTH are the S's? And did he score 40 goals on 102 shots on goal? Are the S's shots directed at goal and includes blocked shots, shots wide, etc.?
He probably should have continued to play and develop in Russia and come over around age 20-22 like Tarasenko and Kuznetsov (probably) will.
what difference would that have made? like Patrick Roy said in the paper in Halifax, the kid last year has come a long way with all around play, last year he never blocked one shot, this year he has about 10 blocked shots and he is finally coming into the defensive zone to help out now.........it is all on passion and hard work not where you develop your skills....not like there is anything wrong with CHL development in talent, it developed like 70% of the NHL
Perhaps similar to Couturier who had the post mono situation last season and created some concerns with regard to his compete level (likely contributing to his drop in the draft).
I don't remember anyone ever questioning Couturier's compete level, just that he could stand to be more physical.. Sean was also a very good two way guy in jr.
I don't remember anyone ever questioning Couturier's compete level, just that he could stand to be more physical.. Sean was also a very good two way guy in jr.
I recall the Avalanche scouts discussing Couturier's drive in an unprecedented all access look into an NHL team's final internal draft ranking meetings. I don't have the video link but someone else may want to dig it up. It was on NHL.com last year.
hey there was not a supporter like Grigorenko than me and I still love the kid...and I know sound positional play opposed to lazy and he picks his times on the ice to play the game higher tempo, when the other team has the puck he glides around, when his team has the puck he is skating but he lacks that burst onto loose pucks that are arms lengths away, when he looses the puck he lacks that extra fight to get it back...I know sound play I do not need a lesson in that I been a scout for 10 years...the kid right now is playing hurt and he is probably more talented Yakupov IMO he has that vision and playmaking to go along with a great shot he is more well rounded in the offensive zone than Yakupov is BUT he needs someone to light a fire under his belt, he will need another year in Quebec and if a team brings him right up they will be rushing him too fast, he needs to fill out more, needs to get a lot stronger.
Not sure if you are saying that he's got better vision than Yakupov but if so, then it leads me to think you have never watched Yakupov play. Nail has shown this year to be as dangerous setting up teammates as he was shooting himself. It's a dimension that makes him a complete offensive player.
he is still hurt too eh...he still has the ankle injury...I would not judge him based on these he is not playing even at 90% right now, I say he is around 75%
I went to games 3 and 4 to see him for the first time live. He didn't really challenge anyone 1 on 1, makes smart passes but didn't really show his ability to beat players on his own. Is this because of his ankle? or is this not an asset of his?
I know 2 games doesn't tell the whole story about a player, but I went into Game 3 of Halifax-Quebec series thinking Grigorenko was the sure fire pick for Habs (my team) 3rd overall. I read some of the weaknesses and concerns before the games but didn't want to believe them until I seen him for myself.
I have to say- and it hurts me to b/c I wanted him to be the big, number 1 center the Habs have needed for years- he is not a player to build a team around. Not at all. He's basically unnoticeable for 75% of the game.
I don't even think it's his work ethic that is the issue. It's his playing style. He rarely carries the puck. I would assume that's because he doesn't have top speed. What he does have, though, is elite passing skills. He passes first and passes often, unless he has a clear shot at the net. In my opinion, if he reaches full potential he's Joe Thornton-lite but less physical (Joe was never known to be physical - so take that how it sounds). He is so uninvolved physically and in puck retrieval that it's alarming. He doesn't play a style of game that can simply take over a game. He's no Malkin - that's for sure.
He does have a very quick and lethal wrist shot though (when he uses it). Combine that with his elite passing and size and I can see why scouts are so high on him. I just think every other part of his game is so lacking that he will never be a #1 center. Maybe on a weaker team with good scoring wingers, but he can't dominate a game. Combine that with the Russian factor and I would be very nervous selecting him at #3.
Obviously with his size, passing and shot he could change/grow into a top player. It's just every other facet of his game that bothers me - and at #3, he's way too much of a project/risk.
Agreed. I only saw him play game 3 and 4 and you may say thats a small sample size but its the playoffs. If a player cant get up for a playoff game two nights in a row, it raises flags in my mind. I am a habs fan as well (could ya tell?) and I do not want to see him in a habs jersey next year based on what I have seen so far, I say we trade the pick to CBJ for their 2013 1st and 2nd.
