Fire ruff. Trade Roy. Attempt to save vanek. If roys cancer has spread to vanek trade him next draft or at the deadline
Vanek's recent references to having a "new" center (Hodgson) helping spark better play made me think that even he realizes that Roy and he don't click anymore. They may still have some sort of friendship from their parallel careers from Rochester and long-time teammates but I also have the sense that Vanek has a much greater intensity and desire to win, and is less willing to accept mediocrity or failure, than Roy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
Ruff has lost certain players in the room. In Buffalo, though, all that means is those players will be gone and we'll continue with the same tired act from the same tired coach.
It's time to move on from Ruff. He'll do fine elsewhere, but I don't give a ****. I care only what's best for this team, and I don't think that's Lindy Ruff anymore. All coaches have a shelf life, and Lindy's has expired. And while I like many of Darcy's moves, if he's not going to fire him, he should go too.
Well-said, Zip - I agree.
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Originally Posted by Zip15
Many Vanek fans never liked the relationship between Ruff and TV.
Many may remember Ruff acknowledging during Vanek's first training camp that he felt Vanek was the most talented player Ruff ever had as a coach to that point. I think a lot of Ruff's frustrations with Vanek in particular stemmed from:
1) his poor work ethic in his first 2-3 seasons; and
2) Regier never getting him any proven scorers to complement Vanek after 2007.
While flawed to think that way, it's human nature to get frustrated if only given one option to succeed with and never be given other options. It's not Vanek's fault that he was the only real goal scorer on the team for the past 5 seasons - and Ruff getting on his case when he didn't produce was probably exacerbated because he had no one else to expect offense from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15
Also, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Roy is practically begging to be traded. He knows he isn't well-liked in the community, and if there's now a falling out between him and the coach--a coach who "ain't goin' nowhere"--he's as good as gone.
I'll have to watch if there's any video later today on Sabres.com of Roy's exit interview but I wonder if it won't eerily resemble the exit interview that Connolly gave last spring. As many recall, he also came off like someone eager to leave town.
that seems like a completely uninformed statement...
This team actually reached the All Star break this year being exactly that (a team bad enough to get a lottery pick)
In the previous season, they reached New Years in exactly the same state (bad enough to get a lottery pick)
they actually spent over 50% of the last 2 seasons as a team with a record bad enough to be in the lottery
Let me rephrase that, you're right.
This team was never bad enough to maintain that awful play over a full season. Their slumming as one of the worst teams is just as indicative of their incredible runs late in the year. They're a bubble team on the whole with the tendency to go white-hot or ice-cold. Expecting them to be as bad as Columbus/Edmonton all year is simply untenable.
The team's final record is indicative of their level. Records don't lie.
I'll have to watch if there's any video later today on Sabres.com of Roy's exit interview but I wonder if it won't eerily resemble the exit interview that Connolly gave last spring. As many recall, he also came off like someone eager to leave town.
And how did Connolly look in Toronto this year?
All the talk of Ruff ruining skill guys rings hollow to me when we see guys like Satan, Afinogenov, and Connolly leave and never playing better than they did at times under Ruff.
I'm not saying that Ruff needs to stay. I'm just saying that replacing him isn't going to be the slam dunk improvement that a lot of the anti-Ruff people are hoping for.
I think that the coach needs to change AND the core needs to be refreshed and rebuilt around the young guys on the roster.
This team was never bad enough to maintain that awful play over a full season. Their slumming as one of the worst teams is just as indicative of their incredible runs late in the year. They're a bubble team on the whole with the tendency to go white-hot or ice-cold. Expecting them to be as bad as Columbus/Edmonton all year is simply untenable.
The team's final record is indicative of their level. Records don't lie.
So I take it you don't grasp the "blow it up" concept
That's irrelevant to this discussion. You said they could have reached the point of a lottery pick. It's unrealistic to think after either a division championship or a 7-game series against a cup-runner-up a franchise will blow the self-destruct button. Thus the team would have to reach that point on its own.
Forward Thomas Vanek had a similar comment. He told reporters that he is critical of his own game in the second half of the season. Vanek added that he wants to return to Buffalo next season.
I don't understand this, maybe Vanek thinks he's going to be traded?
That's irrelevant to this discussion. You said they could have reached the point of a lottery pick. It's unrealistic to think after either a division championship or a 7-game series against a cup-runner-up a franchise will blow the self-destruct button. Thus the team would have to reach that point on its own.
Philadelphia
... the major difference is that you have to have people in place charged with making those types of decisions
"this is the same staff, same front office, same core.... that's basically gotten nothing done in 3, 4, now 5 seasons"
That's irrelevant to this discussion. You said they could have reached the point of a lottery pick. It's unrealistic to think after either a division championship or a 7-game series against a cup-runner-up a franchise will blow the self-destruct button. Thus the team would have to reach that point on its own.
The theory is half way through the 2010 season Darcy says, this core isn't getting us a cup, we are already in 13th, let's trade the core, pickup a lottery pick and start fresh
I don't understand this, maybe Vanek thinks he's going to be traded?
Whats so hard about this to understand?
Posters need to pretty much ignore Paul Hamilton right now. For whatever reason he throwing out completely baseless speculation on a variety of subjects. Attacking in all directions and not realizing some of what he is saying is contradictory.
... the major difference is that you have to have people in place charged with making those types of decisions
"this is the same staff, same front office, same core.... that's basically gotten nothing done in 3, 4, now 5 seasons"
The theory is half way through the 2010 season Darcy says, this core isn't getting us a cup, we are already in 13th, let's trade the core, pickup a lottery pick and start fresh
I know what the idea is. This will never happen to an NHL franchise that isn't run by either the most bold or stupid. Philly doesn't fit because even with jettisoning parts of the old core they had a good enough supporting cast to not skip a beat.
Posters need to pretty much ignore Paul Hamilton right now. For whatever reason he throwing out completely baseless speculation on a variety of subjects. Attacking in all directions and not realizing some of what he is saying is contradictory.
It wasn't Hamilton it was a WGRZ article. It's something Vanek said, that he wants to return. Does that mean he thinks he will be traded? Why would he say something like that.
It wasn't Hamilton it was a WGRZ article. It's something Vanek said, that he wants to return. Does that mean he thinks he will be traded? Why would he say something like that.
I know what the idea is. This will never happen to an NHL franchise that isn't run by either the most bold or stupid. Philly doesn't fit because even with jettisoning parts of the old core they had a good enough supporting cast to not skip a beat.
Anaheim was the 4th seed the previous year...
they fired Carlyle this year pretty early on after a horrible start... your theory might say that they had too much talent to be as bad as they were...
and just because you cant find a perfect comparison.... doesnt mean it shouldn't/couldn't happen. Are there any examples of small market teams, that get bought by a major fan boy billionaire, and immediately have 100s of millions of dollars pumped into the spending?
Ruff needs to go. I don't care anymore. **** his tenure. The 98 and 99 cup runs were ALL Dom, and a monkey could have coached the 05/06,06/07 teams to the ECF. Ruff hasn't done **** in his entire tenure but ride arguably the best goalie of all time and the one of the best pure offensive teams post lockout.
His time has come and gone. Bring in a new coach and watch how Vanek improves. If you can get a good deal for Roy you do it. Worse case you see how he plays for a new coach and if he's not much different he's deadline bait.
The time to lose Lindy is NOW! If I'm Pegs, I say "Darcy, fire Lindy or you're both out the door!"
Anaheim was the 4th seed the previous year...
they fired Carlyle this year pretty early on after a horrible start... your theory might say that they had too much talent to be as bad as they were...
and just because you cant find a perfect comparison.... doesnt mean it shouldn't/couldn't happen. Are there any examples of small market teams, that get bought by a major fan boy billionaire, and immediately have 100s of millions of dollars pumped into the spending?
its kind of a unique scenario.
Firing the coach isn't the same as detonating your roster, which as we may note was rumored in Anaheim but failed to happen. I'll accept firing Ruff (surprise, surprise).
The reason there's no perfect comparison is that nobody has done it. Why has nobody done it? Because it doesn't make sense to do so. You don't raze a sapling to the ground when it struggles to grow. You pick out the weeds and supplement its growth as you can.
Most importantly you don't let your spoiled kid take a ****ing hatchet to it and then throw a tantrum when it dies.
What's your definition of "blowing up?" Looking for names.
Firing the coach isn't the same as detonating your roster, which as we may note was rumored in Anaheim but failed to happen. I'll accept firing Ruff (surprise, surprise).
The reason there's no perfect comparison is that nobody has done it. Why has nobody done it? Because it doesn't make sense to do so. You don't raze a sapling to the ground when it struggles to grow. You pick out the weeds and supplement its growth as you can.
Most importantly you don't let your spoiled kid take a ****ing hatchet to it and then throw a tantrum when it dies.
yea, trading a few guys is detonating the roster
i think you (in the role as GM in your sappling scenario), are too dense to recognize that your precious Sapplings.... ARE THE WEEDS.... and the "spoiled kid with a hatchet"... is actually the new gardener.... who was hired to replace you.
I don't understand this, maybe Vanek thinks he's going to be traded?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull
Whats so hard about this to understand?
Posters need to pretty much ignore Paul Hamilton right now. For whatever reason he throwing out completely baseless speculation on a variety of subjects. Attacking in all directions and not realizing some of what he is saying is contradictory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull
He is refuting Hamilton's assertion he may ask for a trade.
I listened to Hamilton's morning segment on Simon's show - he was by no means asserting anything other than what has long been chronicled and widely speculated on: Ruff has been hard on Vanek and maybe Vanek is tired of it. Based on that, Hamilton only posed the question - just as he did with Roy for the same reasons - if Vanek MIGHT ask to be traded at some point. Hamilton wasn't campaigning for such (at least, in the way that Gleason and Sullivan do with certain players they want dumped) nor was he even stating that Vanek would ask such. He only raised the possibility - which was fair IMO.
