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The new "what to do about Howson" thread

View Poll Results: What should ownership do with GM Scott Howson during the offseason?
Keep him 18 21.43%
Fire him 66 78.57%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-09-2012, 03:51 PM
  #26
CapnCornelius
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
If a new GM were to come in, there are two things that could happen.
1) Do very little, giving everyone a year or two to actually show what they can do before making any moves.
2) Come in and immediately clean house on the roster and in the farm system.
False dichotomy.

An intelligent GM would come in and make moves...but that doesn't mean gutting the farm system necessarily.

Quote:
Is that someone who's likely to get NHL players and excellent prospects from the late rounds, as Howson has actually done and continues to do?
Who are these great late round picks? Cam Atkinson and who? You make it sound as if he found Johan Franzen. And, are you ready to annoint Atkinson when Matt Calvert had a hot streak to end last season and then fizzled because of his physical limitations?

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Think what you will about the guy, but there is no disputing that he's done a damned good jon in the draft.
Filatov and the oft struggling Johansen aren't exactly helping your case. John Moore to this point has not put up the sort of offensive production that was touted. Cam Atkinson is not enough to brag that Howson is a master drafter.

Quote:
And outside of the draft, he's gotten good lightly-regarded prospects from elsewhere...things like dumping Tom Sestito and getting Michael Chaput. Look at some of the trades this year, where everyone else around the league said that Columbus got hosed, and yet...and yet they've turned out well. Every person who observed the Blues couldn't believe that someone actually wanted Nikita Nikitin, and look what he did. Ditto Pittsburgh with Mark Letestu, and especially everyone around the league with Jack Johnson.
Still focused on the micro level and not the macro level. Howson is living proof that you can manage to not lose on individual trades and come out a loser in the end because the whole is greater (or lesser) than the sum of its parts. At some point you have to build a team and when you watch your forward depth erode over the course of 5 years as players leave, "winning" individual trades doesn't really amount to much.

Quote:
Looking at it from the outside, I'm inclined to believe that there's already been assessments made on who's going where in the offseason, including players who aren't pulling their weight. A new GM would either stall that entirely (meaning yet another year of Steve Mason), or the wholesale dumping of players who may not be there yet but probably will be. I mentioned Dale Tallon, who had a fully-stocked farm system and most of an NHL roster when he came in...the drafting plummeted as soon as he came in, and that's not something that's beneficial under any circumstances. Would a new GM be able to draft better? I can say with 99% certainty that you can put anyone from the world of hockey in to draft for Columbus, and they will absolutely not do a better job. And since trades are every bit as much about talent assessment as drafting is, will there be a big improvement in the likely return on someone who's traded? I also say no to that.

I really don't care if I end up being vindicated or not. I'm willing to wager a sizable amount that I will be, but I'd rather actually see what I say will happen actually happen in the next year than to have everyone look back on what could have been and realize that I was right.
If this team continues to miss the playoffs, how big of a "Fire Howson" sign can I order for you?

Because if ownership gives you your wish, that's exactly what's going to happen. Because instead of your fears that some new GM might stall "the plan" (which neither Howson nor Priest seem to be able to spell out for anyone), Howson is going to continue with his poorly formed plan with no vision for what he wants out of this team. And we'll continue to get the same results.

The reality is that the hard work of fixing this team is delayed every minute that Scott Howson stays as GM. And each day Scott Howson is GM is another day we continue with a plan that has led to a deterioration of this franchise for 5 years. Hoping that somehow in year 6 his plan bears fruit is folly. And just as it was with Doug MacLean, the end result of this delay will be a team that is in even worse position for the next GM.

But I've got a simple solution to deal with your concerns and ease the transition away from the current failed regime--interim GM Craig Patrick.

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04-09-2012, 03:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
I realize that I stand to be in the significant minority in this, the .036% as it were, but I feel that overall, the direction the organization has trended in has been positive. It takes time to build system depth, you can't just say we want to be a winner. If you are going to model after Detroit it takes system depth at all levels and that just doesn't happen overnight. This last season was difficult at best, but I feel it to be an aberration and not a reflection. The 400 plus man-games lost certainly didn't help especially in goal with the loss of Dekanich. Would he have made a difference? Who knows? I found it telling that when things went bad they went outside to pick up some pieces and allowed the players in Springfield to stay there and work on their game, at least as long as was possible. Stop gaps to be sure but some of which turned out to be rather enlightening.
I don't see how in any way, shape or form you can say the overall direction has been positive.

Building depth takes a while, but eroding what depth we had at forward took Howson all of 5 years. Now we're left hoping that his various prospects, none of which have actually accomplished anything for a significant period of time, actually pans out. And if they don't? Then we are SOL. Sounds familiar. Sounds a lot like the mess that Doug MacLean created.

I too found it telling they went outside the organization to find talent. It was telling that in 5 years Howson hasn't developed a top line forward or a top 4 defenseman. But, stay tuned, this next batch of prospects can't miss!

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04-09-2012, 04:38 PM
  #28
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Agreed Capn. Patrick as interim AND the guy who selects the new GM. Then the new guy can worry about who he wants as coach.

If Howson MUST stay on, we should keep Richards on as coach. Let the new GM who takes over in mid-season hire his own guy.

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04-09-2012, 04:49 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'm calling BS. York actually played how many games?

Also, Tyutin and Wiz played portions of the "surge" so pretending that we did it with "2 NHL d-men" is just a flat out lie. Not to mention that John Moore was more an NHL defenseman at the end of the year than the beginning.
Are you saying that Mason is an NHL goalie?!!! Typical double-standards.
In one thread you blame front-office for sticking up with Mason. Now when you need it you suddenly assume that Mason is an NHL goalie... York started 4 games and the Jackets won 3 of them, all without Tyutin and Wiz - with 2 remaining NHL defensemen. When a tam looks good most of the time for 7 games playing with only 2 NHL d-man - that's a surge considering previous collapsing.
I have nothing to say if John Moore for you was more an NHL defenseman at the end of the year. In the prospects thread I pulled off his stats. He looked at least tired. Playing 10-13 minutes a game he was outmatched and useless most of the time. Only him and Aaron Johnson were "minus" d-men since JJ's arrival. Review the Detroit and Chicago games - the only two game where Jackets got blown out. I call Moore one of the main reasons of those 2 disasters.
Also... If you think that Moore is that good and Mason is an NHL goalie, why are you demanding Howson's firing? He drafted Moore 21st overall! He's done a better job than at least 5-6 other NHL GMs who picked up busts in the top-20. The same year for example Toronto drafted frikin Nazem Kadri 7th overall.

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04-09-2012, 04:50 PM
  #30
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I don't know that Howson is the root cause of our problem. I would be willing to see how he does without Priest meddling in his business (i.e., the Carter example that has been previously cited). He has made some decent trades and done a decent job drafting. I could live with Niles as our GM if Patrick is the team President.

I would trust Patrick's assessment as to whether Howson should stay or go as opposed to Priest hiring another GM that can pass his test.

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04-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #31
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Get rid of BOTH Howson AND Priest!! Now!! I have listed hundreds and hundreds of reasons before on here. They have a laundry list of mistakes and failures.

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04-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #32
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Are you saying that Mason is an NHL goalie?!!! Typical double-standards.
In one thread you blame front-office for sticking up with Mason. Now when you need it you suddenly assume that Mason is an NHL goalie... York started 4 games and the Jackets won 3 of them, all without Tyutin and Wiz - with 2 remaining NHL defensemen. When a tam looks good most of the time for 7 games playing with only 2 NHL d-man - that's a surge considering previous collapsing.
I call it a small sample size, not a "surge". There aren't enough games in that final 19 with the same cast of characters to determine some sort of trend as you seem to want to do. Unless of course you also want to argue that Allen York is the second coming of Patrick Roy.

As for Mason, he's the same goaltender he was at the beginning fo the season--a really crappy borderline NHL goalie. Has he now been demoted by you to the ECHL?

Quote:
If you think that Moore is that good and Mason is an NHL goalie, why are you demanding Howson's firing? He drafted Moore 21st overall! He's done a better job than at least 5-6 other NHL GMs who picked up busts in the top-20. The same year for example Toronto drafted frikin Nazem Kadri 7th overall.
"That good." I said that he was an NHL defenseman. There are hundreds of those and many of them aren't any good at all. But that doesn't change the fact that Moore is an NHL defenseman making your hyperbole about "2 NHL defenseman" just that. So, speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth, which is it? Is moore a great draft pick or a bum that isn't even worthy of being an NHL defenseman?

Leave the hyperbole at home. There wasn't a "surge" and we didn't somehow manage said non-surge with a lineup of nothing but ECHL players.

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04-09-2012, 05:16 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
False dichotomy.

An intelligent GM would come in and make moves...but that doesn't mean gutting the farm system necessarily.
The assumption is that Columbus has its pick of the litter as far as GM candidates go. As is pretty standard, any option would most likely be either a re-tread looking to get back into the NHL, a younger guy who hasn't proven anything yet, or someone in between.

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Who are these great late round picks? Cam Atkinson and who? You make it sound as if he found Johan Franzen. And, are you ready to annoint Atkinson when Matt Calvert had a hot streak to end last season and then fizzled because of his physical limitations?
I think Franzen was 26 when he was picked, and he was only a third-rounder in any case. He also didn't do anything until his third year in the NHL, when he was 28.

Quote:
Filatov and the oft struggling Johansen aren't exactly helping your case. John Moore to this point has not put up the sort of offensive production that was touted. Cam Atkinson is not enough to brag that Howson is a master drafter.
Johansen is 19 and in his first year. Moore is in his second pro year and first in the NHL. The bigger point is that every player who's been picked in five drafts is either in the NHL, in the AHL, or still been retained with the exception of Kyle Neuber (who was a 7th-rounder). A couple of guys have been traded for something. This isn't exactly the MacLean years, when someone (or "a lot of guys") one year removed from being drafted is no longer an NHL prospect.

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Still focused on the micro level and not the macro level. Howson is living proof that you can manage to not lose on individual trades and come out a loser in the end because the whole is greater (or lesser) than the sum of its parts. At some point you have to build a team and when you watch your forward depth erode over the course of 5 years as players leave, "winning" individual trades doesn't really amount to much.
What erosion? Over half the forwards that Howson inherited aren't even NHL players on the best days of their lives, and there was no one in the system except for Brassard, and the lightly-regarded Dorsett and Boll.

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If this team continues to miss the playoffs, how big of a "Fire Howson" sign can I order for you?
You won't need to.

Quote:
Because if ownership gives you your wish, that's exactly what's going to happen. Because instead of your fears that some new GM might stall "the plan" (which neither Howson nor Priest seem to be able to spell out for anyone), Howson is going to continue with his poorly formed plan with no vision for what he wants out of this team. And we'll continue to get the same results.
Looking at the roster coming in, and the farm system coming in, I'm inclined to believe that the plan was very simple: "accumulate talent". There was little on the roster, and little on the way. It would have been insane to have concocted some type of grand plan, banking either on the absolute development of prospects or on drafting/signing by need as opposed to simply accumulating talent.

If you look at Nashville, I don't think that their plan was actually to have this phenomenal defensive corps and little scoring up front. Their drafting and trading over time doesn't bear that out. But when Weber ended up better than expected, and the late-round goalies ended up vastly outperforming the high picks, that's the direction that the team ended up taking.

The only thing that Howson has said about the plan is to get players who are smart, skate well, and compete hard. How many of those players did he inherit? How many were in the system? And those aren't usually instant producers either; Detroit has used that as their draft plan for 20+ years, and a lot of their guys took a long time to actually get going in the NHL. And by Howson's own admission, Filatov was a deviation from that plan that he wouldn't repeat.

Quote:
The reality is that the hard work of fixing this team is delayed every minute that Scott Howson stays as GM. And each day Scott Howson is GM is another day we continue with a plan that has led to a deterioration of this franchise for 5 years. Hoping that somehow in year 6 his plan bears fruit is folly. And just as it was with Doug MacLean, the end result of this delay will be a team that is in even worse position for the next GM.
An incoming GM would have a good amount of talent on the roster, and a lot in the pipeline. If Howson retired tomorrow to become a farmer, the next guy would have it made....a lot like Dale Tallon in Chicago.

Quote:
But I've got a simple solution to deal with your concerns and ease the transition away from the current failed regime--interim GM Craig Patrick.
Yes, because no one knew how to scout and acquire talent quite like Craig Patrick. What's Craig Hillier up to these days anyway? Is he hanging out with Robert Dome and Milan Kraft?

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04-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'm calling BS. York actually played how many games?

Also, Tyutin and Wiz played portions of the "surge" so pretending that we did it with "2 NHL d-men" is just a flat out lie. Not to mention that John Moore was more an NHL defenseman at the end of the year than the beginning.
From February 28 (first post-deadline game) to the end of the season....
Cody Goloubef - 1 game
Aaron Johnson - 18 games
Jack Johnson - 21 games
Brett Lebda - 20 games
Marc Methot - 0 games
John Moore - 16 games
Nikita Nikitin - 20 games
Dalton Prout - 5 games
David Savard - 5 games
Fedor Tyutin - 4 games
James Wisniewski - 13 games

As far as when there was an NHL-majority defense....
March 1, 2012 - J. Johnson, Lebda, Moore, Nikitin, Tyutin, Wisniewski
March 3, 2012 - A. Johnson, J. Johnson, Lebda, Moore, Nikitin, Tyutin, Wisniewski
March 6, 2012 - A. Johnson, J. Johnson, Lebda, Moore, Nikitin, Tyutin, Wisniewski

Total in those three games. 3-0-0 record, 10 goals for and 4 against. Steve Mason had 101 saves on 105 shots (.962 save percentage).

After that, guys started getting hurt.


Last edited by Mayor Bee: 04-09-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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04-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #35
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Late season improvement seems to be proven with the stats given. I don't think people say it is a surge, mostly we say we play good enough to not get a lottery pick.

Last 22 games of the year our winning percentage was better in 7 out of 11 seasons than the previous 60. Not only that, these stats show nothing without the other teams being compared as well. What draft position were we at at the 61 game mark and what draft position did we end up with?

This of course is taking these stats as a refute to the claim we make that we play ourselves out of a draft position every year.

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04-09-2012, 05:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
Late season improvement seems to be proven with the stats given. I don't think people say it is a surge, mostly we say we play good enough to not get a lottery pick.

Last 22 games of the year our winning percentage was better in 7 out of 11 seasons than the previous 60. Not only that, these stats show nothing without the other teams being compared as well. What draft position were we at at the 61 game mark and what draft position did we end up with?

This of course is taking these stats as a refute to the claim we make that we play ourselves out of a draft position every year.
We were last in the conference when Richards took over. We finished last in the conference.
We were 20 points of out of a playoff spot when Richards took over. We finished 30 points out. Surge?!?

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04-09-2012, 05:52 PM
  #37
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I've got the same simple question I've asked the Howson apologists for some time now and they still don't seem to have an answer--

How much longer is it fair to give this failed GM to prove that he can turn it around?

3 years after "March to the Playoffs" we have the "Surge to 30th!" What great progress we're making.

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04-09-2012, 06:02 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
We were last in the conference when Richards took over. We finished last in the conference.
We were 20 points of out of a playoff spot when Richards took over. We finished 30 points out. Surge?!?
I'm not approaching this as a playoff surge, I'm approaching this as a draft position surge. The stats and title of thread can be approached to mean different things.

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04-09-2012, 06:19 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I call it a small sample size, not a "surge". There aren't enough games in that final 19 with the same cast of characters to determine some sort of trend as you seem to want to do. Unless of course you also want to argue that Allen York is the second coming of Patrick Roy.

As for Mason, he's the same goaltender he was at the beginning fo the season--a really crappy borderline NHL goalie. Has he now been demoted by you to the ECHL?
19 games is almost a quarter of the season. In those games I saw that York didn't have to be Patrick Roy cause the team in front of him was playing well. For me personally that was pretty significant cause we had 3-4 defensemen on IR and offence was filled with waiver pickups or rejects. The Jackets can improve the team at any position without any doubts.
Doesn't matter what kind of words I used to describe goaltending. That record the team posted with worst NHL goalies group in the league.



Quote:
"That good." I said that he was an NHL defenseman. There are hundreds of those and many of them aren't any good at all. But that doesn't change the fact that Moore is an NHL defenseman making your hyperbole about "2 NHL defenseman" just that. So, speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth, which is it? Is moore a great draft pick or a bum that isn't even worthy of being an NHL defenseman?
Is Aaron Johnson an NHL defenseman? Is Lebda an NHL defenseman? In my books they are not. All the other teams think the same way. BUT for some reason they always were ahead of Moore in playing time and role on the team. Moore is just not ready to play in the NHL so he's not "NHL d-man" just yet. I have never said he is ready. And I don't see any warranty he ever will be. He's a good kid. But Filatov also was a good kid.
I'll just repost my question from the other thread:

If Moore is a legit NHL defenseman explain me why he's never been used in the top-4 role even when we had only JJ and Nikitin healthy? Richards, who was fighting for his next season job, was preferring Lebda and AJ on the top-4 and we all know how bad they are. The answer "Richards is an idiot" isn't acceptable cause he was trusted to head the team by 2 different NHL franchises and obviously can evaluate his players.

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04-09-2012, 06:38 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I've got the same simple question I've asked the Howson apologists for some time now and they still don't seem to have an answer--
How much longer is it fair to give this failed GM to prove that he can turn it around?

3 years after "March to the Playoffs" we have the "Surge to 30th!" What great progress we're making.
I wouldn't have minded if Howson was fired a year ago. I've never been impressed with the moves he's made. But now I've got a feeling he IS already turning it around and I wouldn't mind if he stays till the next failure. To answer the question: he can stay while he's improving the team step by step.
I've also asked a question and also didn't get an answer. Could anyone name me a single bad move Howson has done in one year? You can say "Carter trade", but without that trade we wouldn't have had JMFJ. I thought Wiz signing was risky, but his play and attitude have changed my mind. Dekanich or Martinek? You can't blame Howson, he's not a doctor at the end! So what's wrong with the management concretely?

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04-09-2012, 06:52 PM
  #41
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- The moves that must/will be made. If the worst trade was Jeff Carter (who was turned into Jack Johnson and another 1st-rounder), followed by...Glencross for Tarnstrom(?), I'd say that's a pretty good guy to have orchestrating the trades.
The one area in which I usually won't fault Howson is trading, as he does well with it for the most part and has made some absolute robberies over the years (Williams, Vermette, JMFJ), but Jason Chimera for Chris Clark and Milan Jurcina deserves mention in the "Awful trade" category alongside Glencross/Tarnstrom.

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04-09-2012, 07:02 PM
  #42
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Moore is just not ready to play in the NHL so he's not "NHL d-man" just yet. I have never said he is ready. And I don't see any warranty he ever will be. He's a good kid. But Filatov also was a good kid.
So, what you're telling me is that the only draft pick this GM has made that we know for sure is going to be an NHL player is the guy sitting in Philadelphia? And even he isn't exactly a superstar.

Wow, some drafting record.

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04-09-2012, 07:04 PM
  #43
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The one area in which I usually won't fault Howson is trading, as he does well with it for the most part and has made some absolute robberies over the years (Williams, Vermette, JMFJ), but Jason Chimera for Chris Clark and Milan Jurcina deserves mention in the "Awful trade" category alongside Glencross/Tarnstrom.
There were a great number that would have taken the proverbial "bag of pucks" for Chimera at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Nobody bats 1.000, just Hope that your losses are few and have minimal effect.

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04-09-2012, 07:04 PM
  #44
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I'm not approaching this as a playoff surge, I'm approaching this as a draft position surge. The stats and title of thread can be approached to mean different things.
My entire motive in creating this thread and posting the information was to provide a quick and easy resource for whenever it's claimed (as it seems to be on a regular basis) that Columbus always improves the play on the ice at the end of the season. Any wording of the thread title is entire coincidental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I've got the same simple question I've asked the Howson apologists for some time now and they still don't seem to have an answer--

How much longer is it fair to give this failed GM to prove that he can turn it around?

3 years after "March to the Playoffs" we have the "Surge to 30th!" What great progress we're making.
Reverse question back to you. What would it take to convince the anti-Howson crowd that this team isn't actually far off from being able to make some major noise? Keep in mind that I was sour on Doug MacLean after the 2002-03 season for a variety of reasons, so it's not like I'm inherently someone with infinite patience. On the other hand, I questioned the Cleveland Browns firing Chris Palmer after two seasons because it was obvious that the talent was not there and it wouldn't be for at least another year or two.

Let's say that there's a replacement in the front office, and he makes no moves and the team ends up 5th in the conference. How long will it take for 75% of this board to admit that maybe those of us who compose the minority were right? And what good would it do to say that we were right, when there's no undoing what was done?

One of my side hobbies is analyzing sports, mostly because I enjoy and it and because I'm good at it. Wouldn't it make infinitely more sense to just fall in line and demand pink slips if I believed that it was justified? If I saw what has existed from the beginning of pro sports, which is a poor organization and a poor front office and nonstop mediocrity into the infinite future, wouldn't I and my excessively loud mouth be the first or among the first to trumpet that?

Now, to answer your question, I do in fact have a breaking point. I'm not going to say when it is or what it is, but just know that I do have one. And rest assured that if I reach that point, everyone will know, and my viewpoint will be the correct one (as it always is).

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04-09-2012, 07:08 PM
  #45
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I wouldn't have minded if Howson was fired a year ago. I've never been impressed with the moves he's made. But now I've got a feeling he IS already turning it around and I wouldn't mind if he stays till the next failure. To answer the question: he can stay while he's improving the team step by step.
I've also asked a question and also didn't get an answer. Could anyone name me a single bad move Howson has done in one year? You can say "Carter trade", but without that trade we wouldn't have had JMFJ. I thought Wiz signing was risky, but his play and attitude have changed my mind. Dekanich or Martinek? You can't blame Howson, he's not a doctor at the end! So what's wrong with the management concretely?


I've answered this last bit repeatedly but some people can't seem to understand that it isn't about individual moves, it is about team building.

Taken at the extreme, a GM could "win" a series of moves and end up with a team full of second line wingers. Is that a good General Manager? Would that team be successful? No and no.

Howson can't see the forest for the trees. He makes moves that look good on paper, but the teams he puts together don't work together. It isn't dumb luck, it is an inability to understand chemistry.

And, what exactly is your definition of "improving the team step-by-step"? By your own admission you were ready to give him the heave-ho last year and now he puts his team in 30th and he deserves to stay?! Hardly seems to be improving anything. Just switching deck chairs on the Titanic. "Winning" a bunch of trades on paper and losing where it matters--on the ice. Coming up with a plan for the future that instills so much confidence that the team's Captain, who sligned a long term deal, and is the only person outside of ownership and management who seems to have heard the plan, immediately demanded to be traded.

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04-09-2012, 07:13 PM
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The one area in which I usually won't fault Howson is trading, as he does well with it for the most part and has made some absolute robberies over the years (Williams, Vermette, JMFJ), but Jason Chimera for Chris Clark and Milan Jurcina deserves mention in the "Awful trade" category alongside Glencross/Tarnstrom.
At 32, Chimera has just hit 20 goals for the first time, and still has not touched 40 points. Jurcina was injured and lost all of his trade value, otherwise there would have been a return on him that there never would have been on Chimera. Several in the media said that there were offers from multiple teams of at least a 3rd-rounder.

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There were a great number that would have taken the proverbial "bag of pucks" for Chimera at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.
I still wouldn't trade a bag of pucks for Chimera.

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04-09-2012, 07:17 PM
  #47
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Now, to answer your question, I do in fact have a breaking point. I'm not going to say when it is or what it is, but just know that I do have one. And rest assured that if I reach that point, everyone will know, and my viewpoint will be the correct one (as it always is).
What a bunch of political BS. I said last year what Howson needed to do to get back into good graces (playoffs) and we're further way this year than we were then. I gave him the benefit of the doubt to allow him to pick his own coach and look how that turned out. The time for having any faith in this GM is long gone. Fairness isn't giving him 10 years to watch a decades worth of draft picks fizzle just so you can be certain that "the plan" (of which I'm still convinced there isn't one in the traditional sense of that phrase) isn't working.

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04-09-2012, 07:24 PM
  #48
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So, what you're telling me is that the only draft pick this GM has made that we know for sure is going to be an NHL player is the guy sitting in Philadelphia? And even he isn't exactly a superstar.

Wow, some drafting record.
Duncan Keith didn't play his 1st NHL game till he was 22 and won Norris trophy! The oldest Howson's draft pick is still 22. Moore got all the tools to be a good NHL d-man, he's only 21. That's still too early to place him or RyJo to any category - busts or legit NHLers.
Howson had only 1 bad 1st round selection - Filatov. But he was consensus top-5 pick that year. All scouts were mistaken. For god's sake Peter Chiarelli drafted Zach Hamill with 8th overall pick in 2007. In 4 year his team won the Cup.

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04-09-2012, 07:27 PM
  #49
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Taken at the extreme, a GM could "win" a series of moves and end up with a team full of second line wingers. Is that a good General Manager? Would that team be successful? No and no.
Actually, the answers are yes and yes. Many teams have had success over a span of multiple seasons despite being having little in the way of high-end offense. New Jersey over a span of 10 years usually had upper-echelon firepower despite having only Patrik Elias as a consistent scoring threat for any period of time. Lemaire's first year, the Devils scored the 2nd-most goals in the league, and their leading scorer was Scott Stevens. With the exception of the non-playoff 1995-96 season, they were in the top third almost every year and were in the top five multiple times.

That's the most prominent example; they're not the only one. And most people would argue that Lou Lamoriello is a pretty good GM.

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04-09-2012, 07:34 PM
  #50
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I say fire. This is professional sports. The idea is to win. The CBJ's on-ice performance has gotten progressively worse over the past 3 years. I do agree that there may be some reason for future hope given some of the piayers now in the organization, a number of them the result of moves Mr. Howson made. However - It's one thing to finish LAST when you are consciously making moves which may not pay off for a few years, and that is your strategy going in. It's something completely different to "go for it", spend nearly to the cap, and then ice the disaster that was the 2011-2012 CBJ.

Mr. Howson has made some good moves and some poor moves. The sum of them has been several seasons of early exit from playoff contention culminating in a last place finish ( and it wasn't even close). It's time to turn the reins over to someone who comes from an NHL organization with a recent culture of success and give him a chance to bring similar success here to Columbus.

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