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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part VII | OILERS WIN THE LOTTERY!

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04-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #151
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What time is the lottery on at?

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04-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
What time is the lottery on at?
6 I believe.

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04-10-2012, 01:46 PM
  #153
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What time is the lottery on at?
It's a good thing the network and time aren't in the thread title.

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04-10-2012, 01:47 PM
  #154
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What about something like Gagner + 2nd overall to Washington for Mike Green and 11th overall?

If the rankings hold relatively true, we could grab Dumba at that spot (I don't see him falling to there though). I also suggest this in the hopes the Faksa would fall into our laps at that spot, but he's ranked 7 on the final rankings.

In hindsight, a bit of a risk move, but it fills a need on D in terms of offense and I have faith in the scouting staff in Edmonton. Of course we could be left even worse off in the number 2 center position if the stars don't align just right.

Grrr I want Faksa...

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04-10-2012, 01:50 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
You can have too many 40-goal scorers?
I would have thought the distinction between aquiring talent and building a team would be obvious.

This team suffers from poor defence, poor goaltending, a lack of size, a lack of 2 way players. Not elite offensive talent.

If the Oilers win the lottery then it will be Tambellini's defining moment as the Oiler's GM to parlay that into something that will actually help the team.

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04-10-2012, 01:51 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by ToeDrag83 View Post
What about something like Gagner + 2nd overall to Washington for Mike Green and 11th overall?

If the rankings hold relatively true, we could grab Dumba at that spot (I don't see him falling to there though). I also suggest this in the hopes the Faksa would fall into our laps at that spot, but he's ranked 7 on the final rankings.

In hindsight, a bit of a risk move, but it fills a need on D in terms of offense and I have faith in the scouting staff in Edmonton. Of course we could be left even worse off in the number 2 center position if the stars don't align just right.

Grrr I want Faksa...
I would absolutely, 100% do that. Solves everything.

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04-10-2012, 01:52 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
We can keep 1/2 of that out of this thread; the Gagner discussion is occurring elsewhere.

As for a 1st pairing defenseman...



So, again, there's a fairly blatant paradox on display here: you claim the Oilers don't have the assets to trade for a top player. Let's say they use the 1st overall on Yakupov. That would make an Eberle or Hall expendable. If neither asset is good enough to trade for a top-tier defender, why would the unproven 1st overall be?
Well, it does belong in this discussion because i'm pretty sure most would agree that Gagner isn't a good fit long term, that's not even much of a debate anymore so yes, center is clearly a need.

I would rather not trade Hall or Eberle ever, i would like to think that those two along with RNH will be Oilers through their prime years. Three western canadian kids who are all terrific players and love playing in Edmonton by all accounts.
I would rather not trade them other than that, we have no assets outside of the 2012 pick obviously that would interest another team for one of their top centers/defensemen plus i highly doubt that any top line free agents will sign here barring a surprise although i suppose that Schultz is a possibility.
Whether we like it or not, these holes will have to be filled through the draft.

I could understand the thought process of drafting Yakupov since he seems to be the clear BPA but we better be prepared for shoddy center play and weak defensive play for the forseeable future if he is our pick.

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04-10-2012, 02:02 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
6 I believe.
Keep in mind it's just the program that starts at 6. They'll go through the top 5 draft picks, play a ton of commercials and do some awkward interviews before they finally announce the winner right before 7.

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04-10-2012, 02:02 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Well, it does belong in this discussion because i'm pretty sure most would agree that Gagner isn't a good fit long term, that's not even much of a debate anymore so yes, center is clearly a need.
Again, keep it out of this thread. Make your arguments in the gigantic one dedicated to the topic.

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Whether we like it or not, these holes will have to be filled through the draft.
Are you familiar with trades/free agency/offer sheets? It seems people are deliberately and disingenuously ignoring 3/4s of the methods NHL teams use to acquire talent. It's really not contributing anything to the discussion when you're intellectually dishonest.

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04-10-2012, 02:05 PM
  #160
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If we get #1, and Nashville said Weber for Hall, would you do it?

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04-10-2012, 02:07 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post

Are you familiar with trades/free agency/offer sheets? It seems people are deliberately and disingenuously ignoring 3/4s of the methods NHL teams use to acquire talent. It's really not contributing anything to the discussion when you're intellectually dishonest.
I'm intellectually dishonest? How does that even apply here? I was just having an honest debate.

Anyway, i talked about free agency and trades and you seemed to ignore that part of my post and still didn't answer my questions.
Which high profile free agents do you think will sign here?
What assets do the Oilers have outside of the big 3 and the draft pick to entice a team to give up a legit top 6 center or top pairing defenseman?

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04-10-2012, 02:12 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I would argue that it would be a mistake for the Oilers to keep the first and draft Yakupov.

The last thing this team needs is more of the same thing.
with all due respect...and Im new to the thread, but I'm a firm believer that we dont have enough of anything right now, including scoring.

I'm sure most might disagree.

I think you need high end scoring in order to be a champion.

The most realistic way for us to procure this is through the draft.

I also believe at the top of the draft, you absolutely should pick forwards. Of course there are exceptions, but i dont see Murray, or any other non-forwards as worth the gamble.

We also do have a lot of quality Dmen in the pipeline, so Im not sold that we are as dire in need of Dmen as some suggest. Although, like I said above, we are in need of everything.

But, we are closer to where we wanna be - on the road to a championship.

I hope we win the lottery and take Yakupov (sp?), and failing that I hope we take one of the other centers available.

But, as always, BPA first and foremost. In Stu we trust. Amen.

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04-10-2012, 02:12 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Anyway, i talked about free agency and trades and you seemed to ignore that part of my post and still didn't answer my questions.
Which high profile free agents do you think will sign here?
What assets do the Oilers have outside of the big 3 and the draft pick to entice a team to give up a legit top 6 center or top pairing defenseman?
So you're saying a first-pairing defenseman hasn't been traded or signed at any point ever?

Because I can pretty quickly dispell that notion:

-Chara UFA signing
-Volchenkov UFA signing
-Wisniewski UFA signing
-Pronger trade X 3
-Phaneuf trade
-Visnovsky trade
-Campbell trade
-E. Johnson trade
-J. Johnson trade

It's not up to me to tell you what other teams would do, what our assets are worth- that's Tambellini's job. If he can't acquire one despite the fact that it happens at least twice a season every season, that's on him. You're an apologist if you swallow his and the organization's excuses.

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04-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #164
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Good luck tonight guys! The best in the draft needs to play in Canada!

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04-10-2012, 02:19 PM
  #165
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Good luck tonight guys! The best in the draft needs to play in Canada!
Columbus deserves the first pick.

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04-10-2012, 02:24 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Freudian slips View Post
with all due respect...and Im new to the thread, but I'm a firm believer that we dont have enough of anything right now, including scoring.

I'm sure most might disagree.

I think you need high end scoring in order to be a champion.

The most realistic way for us to procure this is through the draft.

I also believe at the top of the draft, you absolutely should pick forwards. Of course there are exceptions, but i dont see Murray, or any other non-forwards as worth the gamble.

We also do have a lot of quality Dmen in the pipeline, so Im not sold that we are as dire in need of Dmen as some suggest. Although, like I said above, we are in need of everything.

But, we are closer to where we wanna be - on the road to a championship.

I hope we win the lottery and take Yakupov (sp?), and failing that I hope we take one of the other centers available.

But, as always, BPA first and foremost. In Stu we trust. Amen.
Agreed, and not to mention that you'd think people would have learned the lesson taught to us by the Pouliot over Parise debacle, when Oilers management overthought a situation and chose not to choose a clearly superior player because he was "more of what they already had" and decided to trade down. And didn't that work out just great in the long run.

Yakupov is the clear #1 in this draft, and if we luck into the position of drafting him, then the Oilers would be utter fools to not take him. Tambellini can find his "defining moment" using other pieces of the roster.

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04-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
So you're saying a first-pairing defenseman hasn't been traded or signed at any point ever?

Because I can pretty quickly dispell that notion:

-Chara UFA signing
-Volchenkov UFA signing
-Wisniewski UFA signing
-Pronger trade X 3
-Phaneuf trade
-Visnovsky trade
-Campbell trade
-E. Johnson trade
-J. Johnson trade

It's not up to me to tell you what other teams would do, what our assets are worth- that's Tambellini's job. If he can't acquire one despite the fact that it happens at least twice a season every season, that's on him. You're an apologist if you swallow his and the organization's excuses.
Forget free agent signings for a minute because the Oilers have never been able to lure high profile free agents here outside of Souray and it was argued at the time that he had huge defensive warts so i'm not sure that i would consider him high profile.

I just don't see the assets that the Oilers have to get a LEGIT top pairing Dman by trade outside of the big 3 or big 4 if the Oilers win the lottery. I suppose that they could package Smid, Petry or Klefbom in such a deal for an upgrade but i'm not so sure. I don't know if i can trust that Tambellini can swing such a deal. Maybe they can sign J. Schultz, i don't know.
I guess it boils down to me not having enough confidence in Tambellini to address these needs outside of the draft.
I'm not an apologist, i'm a realist.

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04-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Freudian slips View Post
with all due respect...and Im new to the thread, but I'm a firm believer that we dont have enough of anything right now, including scoring.
Maybe but they have more of that than anything else and continuing to further exaggerate the unbalance of this team is not improving it.

If anything it just makes them an easier team to plan and play against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian slips View Post
I also believe at the top of the draft, you absolutely should pick forwards.
I don't disagree if you are using the pick. My suggestion is that this is the year that Tambellini gets off his can and does some actual GMing.

I think the pick should be moved, hopefully in a deal that follows the approach of what has been mentioned above where you move back slightly and pick up a decent piece in the process.

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04-10-2012, 02:30 PM
  #169
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I heard Stu McGregor said that they might be drafting by position this year. If this is the case, what position is most likely? I would think Center or Defense. More center than defence though.

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04-10-2012, 02:32 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
If anything it just makes them an easier team to plan and play against.
Yes, having a PPG/potential PPG player on each line would make the Oilers terribly predictable.

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I don't disagree if you are using the pick. My suggestion is that this is the year that Tambellini gets off his can and does some actual GMing.
"Actual GMing" would involve trading or signing someone to fill a hole. I'm trying to think of a time (besides Lindros, the most coveted prospect perhaps ever) that trading 1st overall helped a team.

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04-10-2012, 02:34 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Maybe but they have more of that than anything else and continuing to further exaggerate the unbalance of this team is not improving it.

If anything it just makes them an easier team to plan and play against.



I don't disagree if you are using the pick. My suggestion is that this is the year that Tambellini gets off his can and does some actual GMing.

I think the pick should be moved, hopefully in a deal that follows the approach of what has been mentioned above where you move back slightly and pick up a decent piece in the process.

We are too early in the team building process to not take a potential stud at the forward position. A high end forward would help us more immediately than perhaps anything else, except goaltending - but there dont appear to be any stud goalies listed at the top of this year's draft.

I'll be very very disappointed if we dont take a forward - but ESPECIALLY disappointed if we trade the pick to move down and take a Dman...

But, I havent seen anyone play. Im just going by my gut, and by what Ive read...

But, again, I do believe you take the BPA and sort things out later once you know for sure what you've got...at this point I simply dont agree we have enough high end forwards - especially projecting out three or four years from now when we begin to dominate.

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04-10-2012, 02:39 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Yes, having a PPG/potential PPG player on each line would make the Oilers terribly predictable.
List the lines. Show me what the make up of the team would be if it's such a slam dunk.

It's been the same stuff every year, people get seduced by the potential offence and then in January realization sets in that there are no elite role players or defence or goaltending.

But sure, draft another small forward who is the best of his class but doesn't necessarily stack up as elite when compared to past #1's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
"Actual GMing" would involve trading or signing someone to fill a hole. I'm trying to think of a time (besides Lindros, the most coveted prospect perhaps ever) that trading 1st overall helped a team.
Well I guess if you can't think of one then it would have to be an impossibility...

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04-10-2012, 02:40 PM
  #173
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We are too early ...
Too early?

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04-10-2012, 02:45 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
List the lines. Show me what the make up of the team would be if it's such a slam dunk.

It's been the same stuff every year, people get seduced by the potential offence and then in January realization sets in that there are no elite role players or defence or goaltending.

But sure, draft another small forward who is the best of his class but doesn't necessarily stack up as elite when compared to past #1's.
The problem is that this applies to the rest of the Top 10 this year. Yakupov doesn't quite compare to guys like Tavares and Stamkos. Murray doesn't quite compare to Doughty and Pietrangelo. And on it goes.

It might be a situation where if you get a Top 6 forward or a Top 4 defenseman out of the Top 5, it should be viewed as a success.

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04-10-2012, 02:47 PM
  #175
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Forget free agent signings for a minute because the Oilers have never been able to lure high profile free agents here outside of Souray and it was argued at the time that he had huge defensive warts so i'm not sure that i would consider him high profile.

I just don't see the assets that the Oilers have to get a LEGIT top pairing Dman by trade outside of the big 3 or big 4 if the Oilers win the lottery. I suppose that they could package Smid, Petry or Klefbom in such a deal for an upgrade but i'm not so sure. I don't know if i can trust that Tambellini can swing such a deal. Maybe they can sign J. Schultz, i don't know.
I guess it boils down to me not having enough confidence in Tambellini to address these needs outside of the draft.
I'm not an apologist, i'm a realist.
Yeah the UFA route is unrealistic, as we have seen in the past. That is what got us to the point of the rebuild, is because we couldn't get any big fish to sign here (or even accept a trade here).

I also agree that Tambo making a couple good trades is as essential to a successful rebuild as good drafting. If you look at the Pens (Neal, Kunitz, Hossa) and Hawks (Sharp, Leddy) there were some big deals made by the GM which were huge in improving both teams. The Penner deal may turn out to be one of these deals if Klefbom continues to develop, but as of right now he has sat on his hands quite a bit. It may be he's waiting to see what we've got here, but eventually something has to budge.

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