Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
That's not helping the Avs, the point of the OP trade is for the Avs to give up some of their offensive depth for defense.
A better deal for the Jets is to give you Burmi + Hainsey for Duchene or Stastny, but I don't see that as helping the Av's a ton. You get a top 4 dman, but he's got 1 year of contract left and theres 0 guarantee he would re-sign with the Avs. Plus his potential is maxed out as a 3rd or 4th dman.
I think the issue is that the Jets see Burmistrov, Enstrom, Little and Scheifele all as a main piece and they wouldn't package up two of any of them for one piece on the Avalanche.
A better deal for the Jets is to give you Burmi + Hainsey for Duchene or Stastny, but I don't see that as helping the Av's a ton. You get a top 4 dman, but he's got 1 year of contract left and theres 0 guarantee he would re-sign with the Avs. Plus his potential is maxed out as a 3rd or 4th dman.
I think the issue is that the Jets see Burmistrov, Enstrom, Little and Scheifele all as a main piece and they wouldn't package up two of any of them for one piece on the Avalanche.
When I proposed this trade a few months ago my thinking was that the Avalanche downgrade from Duchene to Burmistrov while the Jets downgrade from Enstrom to Elliott or Barrie. I also included a 2nd round pick coming from Colorado. I think that if Duchene hadn't been injured this season most would see the deal tilted in the Jets favor.
When I proposed this trade a few months ago my thinking was that the Avalanche downgrade from Duchene to Burmistrov while the Jets downgrade from Enstrom to Elliott or Barrie. I also included a 2nd round pick coming from Colorado. I think that if Duchene hadn't been injured this season most would see the deal tilted in the Jets favor.
Quite possibly yeah. I like both Duchene and Stastny coming from the Avs, however I'm a bit lenient towards dealing any of our "big 3" dmen. If we had to deal one of them, Buff seems more expendable than Toby from a jets POV. Not sure if Colorado would want him though, both he and EJ would be RHD.
However, if you were looking to get Burmistrov in a deal with a top Dman, Byfuglien and Burmistrov for Duchene and Barrie is more likely to happen IMHO. I'm no expert on Eric Johnson though, so if he is a more offensive minded dman, that trade makes no sense for the avalanche, but if Johnson is being groomed into a stay at home defensive dman, then pairing him with Byfuglien might be a huge bonus...
Quite possibly yeah. I like both Duchene and Stastny coming from the Avs, however I'm a bit lenient towards dealing any of our "big 3" dmen. If we had to deal one of them, Buff seems more expendable than Toby from a jets POV. Not sure if Colorado would want him though, both he and EJ would be RHD.
However, if you were looking to get Burmistrov in a deal with a top Dman, Byfuglien and Burmistrov for Duchene and Barrie is more likely to happen IMHO. I'm no expert on Eric Johnson though, so if he is a more offensive minded dman, that trade makes no sense for the avalanche, but if Johnson is being groomed into a stay at home defensive dman, then pairing him with Byfuglien might be a huge bonus...
EJ really needs a partner who's responsible and well rounded since EJ is himself a very well rounded guy, his most unique skills right now are his strength in puck battles, how well he uses his body to separate player from puck and how well he rushes the puck up ice, all of those things he does exceptionally well, so he needs a partner who's also going to be versatile and responsible, someone who isn't going to leave EJ having to clean up the mess the way SOB has done when partnered with EJ. Enstrom really would be a great fit next to EJ if we can't sign Suter in FA. A Stastny-Enstrom trade could be a great fit next year if Hishon starts playing again, Dutchy stays healthy and Radar builds on his season, but this season I don't think the Avs are ready to give away Staz and leave Radar, Duchene and McClement as our top 3 centers because of the scoring load that would be placed on Duchene and Radar.
This trade seems very similar from both sides as both sides are very leery about giving away their depth at their position of strength to upgrade a position of need at which they have some gifted prospects that could fill that need down the road. That's why I thought that a Dutchy and Elliott (or Barrie + 2nd) for Enstrom and Burmi made so much sense, you upgrade from Burmistrov to Duchene to fill that Center need and downgrade from Enstrom to Barrie or Elliott so that you still have a high upside prospect at the position. *shrug*
Quite possibly yeah. I like both Duchene and Stastny coming from the Avs, however I'm a bit lenient towards dealing any of our "big 3" dmen. If we had to deal one of them, Buff seems more expendable than Toby from a jets POV. Not sure if Colorado would want him though, both he and EJ would be RHD.
However, if you were looking to get Burmistrov in a deal with a top Dman, Byfuglien and Burmistrov for Duchene and Barrie is more likely to happen IMHO. I'm no expert on Eric Johnson though, so if he is a more offensive minded dman, that trade makes no sense for the avalanche, but if Johnson is being groomed into a stay at home defensive dman, then pairing him with Byfuglien might be a huge bonus...
I can definitely understand you being hesitant. Obviously if Avs fans are willing to deal Duchene and one of our top defense prospects, the return coming back is going to be substantial. Adding Duchene up front with Kane would make your offense formidable, but I'm not sure you could afford to lose Enstrom. Can't say we have any interest in Buff, as we're pretty well set with the RHD. Enstrom would be the perfect partner for EJ I think.
My thinking was that Burmi would minimize the long term effect of losing Duchene, and likewise, Elliott could make up for the loss of Enstrom's skill set. I'm not sure Elliott will ever compare to Enstrom defensively, but I suspect he'll be able to approach the offensive skill of Enstrom.
I guess my point is that I think it's probably in the ballpark of fair and makes some sense for both teams, but I could definitely understand why both sides would balk...
Well it's not Burmistrov + Enstrom for only Duchene, Barrie is a young NHL-ready defender that formerly won defenseman of the year in juniors.
I like Burmistrov a lot, but I have a feeling that Sherman would target Little ('06 draftee).
So tell me, Little + Enstrom = Duchene + ?
If you'd rather talk Stastny than Duchene, I still am not comfortable with the Avs moving a center without targeting a guy like Burmi/Little in the deal who could play center or wing if needed. Stastny and O'Reilly more than Duchene due to the fact Duchy still has maturing to do.
For me, Little + Enstrom would be Duchene plus Winnipeg's choice of the D from Colorado (Elliot, Siemens, Gaunce, Barrie), plus probably a pick coming back as well.
Duchene has the most value, but Enstrom is a number 1 D man, and Little is a 1B or #2C. The defenseman from Colorado would have potential, but there is a risk there for the Jets as none of them are proven in the NHL.
For me, Little + Enstrom would be Duchene plus Winnipeg's choice of the D from Colorado (Elliot, Siemens, Gaunce, Barrie), plus probably a pick coming back as well.
Duchene has the most value, but Enstrom is a number 1 D man, and Little is a 1B or #2C. The defenseman from Colorado would have potential, but there is a risk there for the Jets as none of them are proven in the NHL.
Who do you value higher, Little or Burmistrov?
Because I wouldn't even do that for Burmistrov, and I personally view him as the better player going forward.
Siemens should be off limits. The trio of Elliott, Barrie and Gaunce are all ready or near-ready (40g NHL, 40g AHL type of season) next year. They project to be top 4 dmen at worst (Gaunce might be a little lower as a top 6, but he's also the most defensive of the 3 depending on needs).
Because I wouldn't even do that for Burmistrov, and I personally view him as the better player going forward.
Siemens should be off limits. The trio of Elliott, Barrie and Gaunce are all ready or near-ready (40g NHL, 40g AHL type of season) next year. They project to be top 4 dmen at worst (Gaunce might be a little lower as a top 6, but he's also the most defensive of the 3 depending on needs).
Depends on what the needs are. Little is the better player now, Burmistrov might be the better player in the future.
Is Siemens that far ahead of Elliot in value to be off limits? Genuinely curious, not sarcastic.
I would want to hear from Winnipeg management that they were 99.9% sure that a guy like Elliot was going to be a difference maker for them in 2 years to be entirely happy dealing both Enstrom and Burmistrov for Duchene and Elliot. If that was the case, there probably could be something there.
Depends on what the needs are. Little is the better player now, Burmistrov might be the better player in the future.
Is Siemens that far ahead of Elliot in value to be off limits? Genuinely curious, not sarcastic.
I would want to hear from Winnipeg management that they were 99.9% sure that a guy like Elliot was going to be a difference maker for them in 2 years to be entirely happy dealing both Enstrom and Burmistrov for Duchene and Elliot. If that was the case, there probably could be something there.
Siemens has very high potential and he's a lefty. Given the right development curve he could be the long term solution to our partner for EJ. They were paired together in preseason and by all accounts worked very well together.
He's a better version of what we'd like to see out of Gaunce, and Elliott/Barrie are righties both with similar upside (Elliott a better offensive guy, Barrie a better 2-way guy). So basically it means if we see reason to, we could afford to move top prospects like Elliott/Barrie or Gaunce because we've got a deep enough pool to cover for their loss.
I still believe Avs brass would want Little tbh. Just take a look at the '06 draft and notice all the players the Avs have collected from it?
Siemens has very high potential and he's a lefty. Given the right development curve he could be the long term solution to our partner for EJ. They were paired together in preseason and by all accounts worked very well together.
He's a better version of what we'd like to see out of Gaunce, and Elliott/Barrie are righties both with similar upside (Elliott a better offensive guy, Barrie a better 2-way guy). So basically it means if we see reason to, we could afford to move top prospects like Elliott/Barrie or Gaunce because we've got a deep enough pool to cover for their loss.
I still believe Avs brass would want Little tbh. Just take a look at the '06 draft and notice all the players the Avs have collected from it?
Gotcha. I wasn't really thinking about the righty / lefty angle. I was just thinking about potential and play-styles.
I'm not so sure about that. We all love Dutchy because he grew up an Avs fan and has great talent. But if we strike out on finding EJ a partner this is the type of trade that we could be looking for. With the Staz playing well again and Factor breaking out, our need for Duchene isn't as huge as it once was, stick Burmistrov on the third line with Olver and Jones or Downie and the Avs still have 3 scoring lines and EJ has a legit partner so that we can stop cycling bottom 4 guys through that position.
Enstrom isn't exactly the player I see being traded for Duchene though. If he's to be traded I want someone like OEL or Jared Cowen, not Enstrom. I just can't see him fitting in with the Avs' youth
3 key pieces to the future
to trade for
Duchene who had 28 points... justify his value.
Enstroms career stats are comparable to Duchene, and hes a defenseman.
Winnipeg says No No No.
and you want us to throw in Burmi or Scheifele?? Ridiculous.
Sooo...somebody obviously forgot that before this season Matt Duchene and John Tavares had IDENTICAL numbers. Would you trade Enstrom/Burmi for Tavares/prospect? I thought so.
Tavares and Duchene are two very similar yet different players. Both will put up the points in different ways, Duchene flashy and highlight reel while Tavares more all-around-make-players-better type, and both will be All-Stars for years. To say that Duchene putting up 28 points makes him a horrible players isn't warranted because the kid dealt with injury issues all season long
3 key pieces to the future
to trade for
Duchene who had 28 points... justify his value.
Enstroms career stats are comparable to Duchene, and hes a defenseman.
Winnipeg says No No No.
and you want us to throw in Burmi or Scheifele?? Ridiculous.
Matt Duchene is a 21 year old center one year removed from an all star 27 goal and 67 points season, he has all the tools to be a true two-way #1 center possibly as soon as next season. He's under control for 5 more years.
Tyson Barrie is a very good prospect that's projected to be a top 4 (with #3 potential) PMD that plays good in his own zone. He's 2010 WHL D-man of the year and 2011 runner up to Stefan Elliot.
Tobias Enstrom is an all round 1st pairing defensman that's under contract for only one more season.
Alex Burmistrov is a pretty good young player that showed his potential to be a good two-way player during the past two seasons. His highest point total is 28 points.
Cody Sol is projected to be an enforcer in the NHL.
Sooo...somebody obviously forgot that before this season Matt Duchene and John Tavares had IDENTICAL numbers. Would you trade Enstrom/Burmi for Tavares/prospect? I thought so.
Tavares and Duchene are two very similar yet different players. Both will put up the points in different ways, Duchene flashy and highlight reel while Tavares more all-around-make-players-better type, and both will be All-Stars for years. To say that Duchene putting up 28 points makes him a horrible players isn't warranted because the kid dealt with injury issues all season long
Exactly, Tavares has grown. Duchene took a step back. Dealing with injury only adds to the skepticism. Duchene is NOT Tavares. Nowhere did i say Duchene was horrible. He is not. Im comparing him to the Winnipeg players in question.
Burmi is only 20, he is merely starting to show his potential.
Start throwing in Enstrom and or Kane or Scheifele we are getting carried away. If you are asking for this kind of overpayment for Duchene, I simply do not see the value. Id rather stick with the 4 Jets players in question.
Exactly, Tavares has grown. Duchene took a step back. Dealing with injury only adds to the skepticism. Duchene is NOT Tavares. Nowhere did i say Duchene was horrible. He is not. Im comparing him to the Winnipeg players in question.
Burmi is only 20, he is merely starting to show his potential.
Start throwing in Enstrom and or Kane or Scheifele we are getting carried away. If you are asking for this kind of overpayment for Duchene, I simply do not see the value. Id rather stick with the 4 Jets players in question.
Who mentioned Kane?
Also love the ''Burmi is only 20, he is merely starting to show his potential'' part of your post. Irony is a beautiful thing.
This Elliotte Friedman blurb caught my attention : 18. Duchene was benched March 22 (played only 7:21 vs. Phoenix) then saw almost 15 minutes two nights later. But then his time-on-ice falls off a cliff. Average for the final five games: 11:40. You can sense an uneasy relationship between he and Sacco. The Avalanche dealt Chris Stewart out of nowhere. If they think Sacco is the right coach, what do they think about Duchene?
This Elliotte Friedman blurb caught my attention : 18. Duchene was benched March 22 (played only 7:21 vs. Phoenix) then saw almost 15 minutes two nights later. But then his time-on-ice falls off a cliff. Average for the final five games: 11:40. You can sense an uneasy relationship between he and Sacco. The Avalanche dealt Chris Stewart out of nowhere. If they think Sacco is the right coach, what do they think about Duchene?
Interesting.
What's interesting about it? Just Friedman's irrelevant musings. I have no hesitations towards trading Duchene though, I would move him quite easily in the right deal.
Duchene is the best player in the deal by far so I'm still not even sure this would get it done, but its closer. Not big on Enstrom, rather go find a defenseman through UFA.
Burmi is my favourite Jet but I do this in an instant
