Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
Actually that's patently incorrect. There's some of what you're talking about involved, but it's hardly 'just' propaganda.
And don't chalk all of our anti-communist efforts up to pure paranoia, because that's just naive. COMINTERN spend the entire Cold War doing everything possible to gain a lasting Communist foothold on this continent that they could point at us. And in fairness to the Communist bloc, we were doing everything we could to disrupt their interests in the Old World too, that was part of the nature of the Cold War.
They knew the Soviets couldn't beat us at sea, so most of the Cold war was fought rather closer to their homes than they'd like. One of their strategies to counter that was to try to whip up Communist fervor in Latin America. It almost worked several times, and once, in Cuba, when the US-friendly regime was particularly odious and corrupt, it actually did.
That movement didn't spread much exactly because the United States was as proactive as it was to prevent it. It doesn't exactly leave us coming off looking like saints, I'll be the first to admit it. We really shouldn't have, say, supported Pinochet as much as we did, to name an example off the top of my head. But we didn't do it for no reason, and while we probably owe Latin America more of an apology than she's ever likely to get, at least it worked.
Yes, that was the cold war which ended more than 20 years ago. Communism is not a threat to anyone (well, North Korea but that's just more insanity than anything).
Another reason to paint Cuba like an awful place is to gain political support from the exiles in Florida, which as we all know is one of the most important states in the electoral college. They are one topic voters: who will spew the most bile against Castro?
Castro is still in power in Cuba, and Castro stole our money. WHen he's gone, or when he gives the money back, America will probably be glad to reopen business talks. Failing to invest in or trade with Cuba now is a result of his decision to nationalize American owned businesses without compensation. That's what the embargo is about and what it's always been about.
The reason the Cuban exile community is so hardened against Castro is that many of them were robbed themselves, or have family members who were robbed, by Castro's nationalization policies.
That was after he'd stolen our money. He nationalized Cuban businesses as soon as he took power. His justification at the time, at least publically, was that the sheer volume of American investment and ownerhsip in Cuba was threatening their sovereignty and there were too many cozy back-room deals with Batista for him to feel comfortable allowing these business interests to stay in Cuba. It's not really an insane pretext actually, but stealing billions of American dollars is a good way to put a target on your back.
The business community that had just been robbed wasn't going to stand for the US getting chummy with the new regime so soon after the nationalization program, which is why we turned Castro away at the time. Was it the right move, the wrong move, dunno, duncare, it was the move they had to make at the time.
Would he not be a hero to the Cuban people then for serving their interests over the exploitation of their resources by foreign interests? Isn't that all that really matters? Could all those people who fled Cuba be the ones who benefited from the corruption of the previous regime?
Does it take drastic moves for a country to truly free themselves?
Castro is still in power in Cuba, and Castro stole our money. WHen he's gone, or when he gives the money back, America will probably be glad to reopen business talks. Failing to invest in or trade with Cuba now is a result of his decision to nationalize American owned businesses without compensation. That's what the embargo is about and what it's always been about.
The reason the Cuban exile community is so hardened against Castro is that many of them were robbed themselves, or have family members who were robbed, by Castro's nationalization policies.
He didn't steal your money. He stole the slave masters money. I'll bet you every country in the Caribbean wish they could of did the same and freed themselves.
Would he not be a hero to the Cuban people then for serving their interests over the exploitation of their resources by foreign interests? Isn't that all that really matters?
Sure, but don't expect that to win you any brownie points in Washington. By the same token, the embargo is the right thing for America to do to protect its own interests.
The embargo is the consequence Castro took for being willing to risk American disfavor by dispossessing Americans of their Cuban business interests without compensation. If he can face that consequence cheerfully, I guess more power to him, but that's no reason for the Americans to abandon their own interests without a fight.
Notice how the assets of Cuba suddenly turned into "our" money? Funny how that happens...
Anyways, Cuba used to be the Vegas for the Eastern Seaboard. Except with more shady stuff happening, because the guy who happened to run the country (fully democratically elected, Batista was, amirite?) was in the pocket of US interests.
Notice how the assets of Cuba suddenly turned into "our" money? Funny how that happens...
... when Americans built those assets, sank their money into them, and expected a fair ROI, and then along comes yet another tin pot kleptocrat yes, it's funny how that works.
Not gonna defend Batista, but I get sick of the whole embargo thing being treated like it was America's fault. It took two.
In a way we're doing Castro a big favor. If it wasn't for the embargo, he'd have to admit that it was his economic policies that were behind the total collapse of the Cuban economy and the nosedive of the Cuban standard of living since he took power.
... when Americans built those assets, sank their money into them, and expected a fair ROI, and then along comes yet another tin pot kleptocrat yes, it's funny how that works.
Not gonna defend Batista, but I get sick of the whole embargo thing being treated like it was America's fault. It took two.
In a way we're doing Castro a big favor. If it wasn't for the embargo, he'd have to admit that it was his economic policies that were behind the total collapse of the Cuban economy and the nosedive of the Cuban standard of living since he took power.
HA! If they expected a fair ROI, they didn't have to bribe Batista.
Batista shook everyone down. The businessmen supported Batista over Castro only because of the nationalization promises. They'd rather pay Batista's extortion than lose their investments entirely.
I was driving home after a busy day of being educated and they were talking on the radio about how the Batista regime was worse than Castro's. Some caller called into the sports program and claimed Batista's was actually racist, or how Cuba has good healthcare.
I was driving home after a busy day of being educated and they were talking on the radio about how the Batista regime was worse than Castro's. Some caller called into the sports program and claimed Batista's was actually racist, or how Cuba has good healthcare.
Maybe they should replicate the "Sea of Happiness" in the States then.
The US corn and sugar growers exert political pressure to maintain sanctions and protect them from Cuba's sugar exports, that's another reason. The corn growers just want to keep forcing that high fructose corn syrup crap on the American people.
I was driving home after a busy day of being educated and they were talking on the radio about how the Batista regime was worse than Castro's. Some caller called into the sports program and claimed Batista's was actually racist, or how Cuba has good healthcare.
Could all those people who fled Cuba be the ones who benefited from the corruption of the previous regime?
Not necessarily. Political dissidents faced few alternatives but to flee the country, regardless of whether or not they were the ones benefiting from the prior regime. Certainly a fair bit of them were, but nowhere even close to all of them.
Nationalization was a choice he had to make when you consider that he was forced to buy oil from Venezuela rather than Russia at higher prices and the sugar quota was taken away to sink his economy.
When your refineries force you to buy more expensive oil for political reasons, any rational leader would sever those ties.
Is that way an estimated 6 Cubans die every die trying to escape the island according to the UN. Because it's a great place?
That's not a very good argument. They leave for a host of reasons. A lot of it is family in the US. Cuba's got problems and a serious class system, but they ain't fleeing to Mexico. People from around the world risk their lives to reach the dream of America. Why wouldn't Cubans, who are so close, not do it?
Plenty of Mexicans die crossing the boarder to America and that's on land.
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History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
I also have to question those numbers in the first place. We are talking about approx. 2200 Cubans dying a year trying to flee a country. Doesn't seem too legit to me.
Is that way an estimated 6 Cubans die every die trying to escape the island according to the UN. Because it's a great place?
Bling makes people do crazy things. Unfourtunatly Cuba is not economically free from the US. Remove the Sanctions and let their system work for them. Just because the US has been colonized by corporations doesn't mean Cuba has to.
I wish selling all of our Canadian resources went to benefit Canada, but it doesn't. We have lots of oil but for some reason we can't build refineries and sell it at market value. We should be paying 30 cents a liter.
I was driving home after a busy day of being educated and they were talking on the radio about how the Batista regime was worse than Castro's. Some caller called into the sports program and claimed Batista's was actually racist, or how Cuba has good healthcare.
Batista probably was worse.
Of course that doesn't necessarily make Castro good. Just not as awful as Batista.
His brutality to his own people, especially those who disagree with him, the racism his government tolerates against black Cubans, and the failed economic policy that turned what was once the most prosperous nation in the Carribean into a true third world state.
Under Batista the Cuban economy had a Gilded Age feel to it with a few very rich people, a small but growing middle class and a lot of poor. Castro made it much more equal. Now everyone's poor.
