Snow is a terrible GM. That is not opinion it is fact. Look at the standings the past 5 years and you can see the facts. In sports success is measured by 1 thing and 1 thing only, postseason success. That is impossible to have when your team is so pathetic they can not even make it. There is no arguing concrete facts unless you are a politician and we all know they are jackasses.
An opinion is that Snow is a good/average GM because excuse X - Wang is cheap, excuse Y- Milbury sucked what a mess he left, excuse Z- look at the prospect pool so many young boys that we have accumulated after 5 years in last place.
disagree. he's improved the team's future by sticking to the re-build plan. he hasn't overpaid for anyone. the Grabner contract, IMO, is his worse deal so far, and it's not that bad. he stayed the course with Nabby, and turned him into an asset, for both now and the future. picked up moulson and parenteau for nothing. all these little things are contributing to an aura of stability, which is important. there are things that he can't control, such as the building, so it's hard to blame him for it not being a completely
desirable environment.
sure, he hasn't turned the team into a cup contender in the span of 5 years, but i doubt that any GM in his position, would have.
i would rank him as average... burke, below average...
disagree. he's improved the team's future by sticking to the re-build plan. he hasn't overpaid for anyone. the Grabner contract, IMO, is his worse deal so far, and it's not that bad. he stayed the course with Nabby, and turned him into an asset, for both now and the future. picked up moulson and parenteau for nothing. all these little things are contributing to an aura of stability, which is important. there are things that he can't control, such as the building, so it's hard to blame him for it not being a completely
desirable environment.
sure, he hasn't turned the team into a cup contender in the span of 5 years, but i doubt that any GM in his position, would have.
i would rank him as average... burke, below average...
I forgot to add excuse W- the arena. You used a combo of excuse W with excuse Z- "prospects OMG" I am a bit surprised you did not use excuse X. Bottom line is the results speak for themselves, bottom feeders always have good prospect pools, which is does not mean to much until those guys do something at the NHL level and the team wins. 5 years in last= failure, very simple logic
He spent 2.5M on Comeau with the only intent to trade him later. Even that failed, he could be lucky that the Flames took him off waivers later.
I'm sure he could have signed Shane O'Brien for 1.5M who signed in Colorado for 1.1M on July 13.
He could have made the $$$ trade with Nashville for Franson 800k and Lombardi (3.5M for 2 years) on July 3. Then there would be no need for Staios (800k/1.6M) and Reasoner (1.35M for 2years).
He could have claimed Nystrom (700k for 2 years) off re-entry waivers on October 12 and forget about Pandolfo (600k/1.4M) who was signed on October 4.
Forget about Rolston 5M and buyout Hunter 667k.
He could have spent the money much better, but it wasn't about winning.
Even with the 2 year contract for Lombardi and Hunter's buyout it would look better for next season with Franson RFA and Nystrom and a better chance to extend O'Brien.
lots of speculation. you are not including the reality that these players did not want to come here.
I actually thought the whole leaf brass apology was pathetic .
Burke thought he could build a team that would beat everybody up physically in the east but found out the ref's and nhl werent on board with his plan .
I think they should cut to the chase and fire his ass .
In 5 years Snow has signed ONE guy on the UFA market that is an impact player that other teams had interest in. Snow has made ONE impact trade in 5 years. Why do fans continue to make excuses for the guy, its been HALF A DECADE of LAST PLACE WITH HIM IN CHARGE. It is mind boggling, only on HF can a failure like the Islanders and Edmonton be called a success because they have good potential players under 22 years old.
why do fans blame him for things that aren't under his control? THAT is mind boggling.
and when Pitt was building their team with draft picks, you should have advised them that they had it wrong....
I forgot to add excuse W- the arena. You used a combo of excuse W with excuse Z- "prospects OMG" I am a bit surprised you did not use excuse X. Bottom line is the results speak for themselves, bottom feeders always have good prospect pools, which is does not mean to much until those guys do something at the NHL level and the team wins. 5 years in last= failure, very simple logic
so, by your logic, every team that doesn't win the cup every year, is a failure? if that was the logic of eveyone, then we would be watching a 1 team league...
the intent of my posts is to indicate that i am seeing PROGRESS, not regression, and i'm ok with that...
so, by your logic, every team that doesn't win the cup every year, is a failure? if that was the logic of eveyone, then we would be watching a 1 team league...
the intent of my posts is to indicate that i am seeing PROGRESS, not regression, and i'm ok with that...
We had the exact same record 2 years ago, that is not progress. We are treading water. Adding more kiddies and throwing them into the deep end of the pool and letting them drown is not progress. Every team that does not win the cup is a failure for that season, that should be the goal every season for every team(not in Isles land) and when you do not reach the goal you fail.
Actually, I dunno any team in the league that got more help from the refs than the Leafs.
How else can anyone explain SEVERAL games this season where they didn't even get one penalty.
Jeez, in that home-n-home with the Isles, they weren't penalized once despite a total of FIVE high sticks to the face during the two game stint.
What was THAT all about?
maybe if the isles scored a few goals in that home and home v.s toronto we wouldnt be complaining about the lack of calls .the offense was anemic after the all-star break .
The difference is that Burke S U C K S as GM for Toronto. He's been given a blank check and still couldn't get his team into PO's. Snow hasn't done any better, but he got the same results with a much, much smaller sized check.
We had the exact same record 2 years ago, that is not progress. We are treading water. Adding more kiddies and throwing them into the deep end of the pool and letting them drown is not progress. Every team that does not win the cup is a failure for that season, that should be the goal every season for every team(not in Isles land) and when you do not reach the goal you fail.
failure is a subjective term. if you set your goals on winning every year, you will be constantly disappointed. if you set your goal as winning every 30 years, you are being realistic. there's nothing wrong with dreaming of winning every year, unless you let your 'failure' ruin your day.
hockey players are first and foremost, human beings. some are motivated by the dangling carrot, some by a pat on the back, some by a kick in the ass. the one thing that i am sure of, is that if you keep telling them that they are failures, you can't expect more than them to be just that.
i see it as a progression, if they ice a younger team, and accumulate the same amount of points. if, in 3 years, this team is still below .500, then i would see that as a failure.
this thread is interesting because it puts two concepts opposite each other that don't easily bring the discussion to a conclusion: accountability vs. realism
(on accountability...) i think garth needs to be accountable for this team's failure at this point. i think that accountability started last year. i say this because he took over a pile a stinking milbury mess. at the time, in my head i granted him 3 to 4 years of realistic housecleaning. IMO, the 10-11 season was the first year of "the reckoning of garth." the 11-12 season was year two and 12-13 will be the final chapter (for me, if not Chuckie). if we don't make the playoffs next year, I don't care if the Isles all come down with chronic, persistent angina, he has to go. it may not seem fair to some, but life is not always fair.
(on realism...) that said, to have expected him to do much before 10-11, coupling the milbury mess with the restrictions that Wang shackled/s him with, was/is unrealistic. he did make some nice moves, along with some questionable ones. under the circumstances, I'd say he's performed at a C to C+ level.
conclusion: if the isles make the playoffs and win a round next year, i will be happy. i do, believe it or not, believe that we are two players away from that. whether that means we get two solid nhlers, or we get one and one blossoms, i don't know. i just know that we need more quality from somewhere.
failure is a subjective term. if you set your goals on winning every year, you will be constantly disappointed. if you set your goal as winning every 30 years, you are being realistic. there's nothing wrong with dreaming of winning every year, unless you let your 'failure' ruin your day.
hockey players are first and foremost, human beings. some are motivated by the dangling carrot, some by a pat on the back, some by a kick in the ass. the one thing that i am sure of, is that if you keep telling them that they are failures, you can't expect more than them to be just that.
i see it as a progression, if they ice a younger team, and accumulate the same amount of points. if, in 3 years, this team is still below .500, then i would see that as a failure.
So you think after what would be 8 seasons picking in the top 10 you can declare failure? Over half the teams in the league make the playoffs every season, it really should happen at least every other year( based on you saying win once every 30 years) so wouldn't at least 2 of the last 5 season be a failure?
Players are different than the organization as a whole. JT, PAP and Moulson had successful seasons, the team has a whole with the stated goal of making the playoffs by the GM failed. We are not nearly as young a team as you thought we were. This year during a versus game in the beginning of the year they showed a stat that we are one of the 5 oldest teams in the league.
Good organizations set the goal to win the cup not make the playoffs. Will the Flyers, Wings, Sharks, Pens, Rangers,Caps, Boston, Vancouver, or Hawks be happy with simply making the playoffs or getting booted in the 1st round? No they want the cup and that is the only goal. If they do not win the cup they make changes in the off season to do try to do so. They do not go after over the hill 38 year olds who are old team USA buddies just to fill cap space.
So you think after what would be 8 seasons picking in the top 10 you can declare failure? Over half the teams in the league make the playoffs every season, it really should happen at least every other year( based on you saying win once every 30 years) so wouldn't at least 2 of the last 5 season be a failure?
Players are different than the organization as a whole. JT, PAP and Moulson had successful seasons, the team has a whole with the stated goal of making the playoffs by the GM failed. We are not nearly as young a team as you thought we were. This year during a versus game in the beginning of the year they showed a stat that we are one of the 5 oldest teams in the league.
Good organizations set the goal to win the cup not make the playoffs. Will the Flyers, Wings, Sharks, Pens, Rangers,Caps, Boston, Vancouver, or Hawks be happy with simply making the playoffs or getting booted in the 1st round? No they want the cup and that is the only goal. If they do not win the cup they make changes in the off season to do try to do so. They do not go after over the hill 38 year olds who are old team USA buddies just to fill cap space.
Snow's drafting record since 2006 is respectable. okposo, rhakshani, macdonald, katic, bailey, ness, hamonic, petrov, donovan, ullstrom, poulin, martin, tavares, dehaan, koskinen, nilsson, czikas, lee, neidereiter, nelson, kabanov, strome, nelson, sundstrom, pedan, persson, kitchon... that's 27 decent players in 5 years. you really can't expect 20 year olds to have an impact in the NHL, so anyone after Tavares, should be considered exempt. the vast majority of players do not have an impact until their 3rd or 4th year (23 or 24 years old).
if we finish with 90 points next year, and miss the playoffs, is that failure? what i'm saying, is that yes, we should be expecting to make the playoffs every second year, once we're established. big difference compared to being in the midst of a rebuild... our core is one of the youngest in the league. you can count guys like pandalfo, motteau, reasoner, staois, eaton if you like, but i don't. they are stopgaps, not part of the core.
we are not a good organization, yet. to expect the team to make a 20 point improvement, while in the midst of a rebuild, is not realistic. and to expect a team that has a young core (can't stress this enough) to have success in the playoffs, is unrealistic too. every team should expect improvement, of course. an established team that is competetive will have different goals than ours. that is a no-brainer.
if you can show me that Snow chose pandalfo over a guy like nystrom, or reasoner over a guy like o'brien, or rolston over ehrhoff, than i will GLADLY agree with you that Snow effed up. from what i've read, in credible sources, it was the players that chose not to come here. i have a hard time understanding how you can blame Snow for not swimming, when his hands and feet are tied together.
in summary, i see the organization making strides. sometimes 2 steps forward, and 1 back, but still moving forward. no quantum leaps, as much as i would like them to. for the record, i think we could have a better owner and management, but they are not the devil and his sidekick, as some proclaim.
anything that isles junkie, satan's island and dutch frost say is usually the opposite of reality
Why?..... because all three of us think Garth Snow is a horrendous GM? Yeah, that is certainly the opposite of reality...because even a chimpanzee could not have made top 5 draft picks for 5 years running. Face it...that is all this man does. He does not make any trades, he does not sign any free agents of note and can we please stop already with the BS he has no money to spend. He spent around 8 million on Rolston, Staois, Pandolfo and Reasoner. That money could have been used to bring in a top 4 d-man (4 million) and a second line scorer (4 million).
Last edited by Satan'sIsland81: 04-11-2012 at 10:36 AM.
You're very much into minority of NYI fans who think garthsnow is a good gm
I think under the circumstances, Snow is doing the best job possible. Who has it easier signing free agents, Snow on Long Island or Burke in Toronto? What do you think of the way Snow has handled the signing of Tavares, Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen or Nabby? Speaking of Nabby, were you one of the posters upset that Snow had tolled Nabby's contract last offseason. I remember the outcry when he did it. How he was a moron! Worst GM for doing it! Snow doesn't know what he's doing!
What do you think of the Islanders propect pool? Poor drafting? Bridgeport is becoming a juggernaut and they're going to have Nelson for a full season next year, Kabanov, possibly Petrov and Ryan Strome is just around the corner.
I can't truly judge Snow's ability as a GM until the Islanders are contenders and he has an equal chance to sign free agents that most other GM's have. If you believe Snow is on equal ground, you're delusional.
Can you judge the Yankees GM fairly against the Pittsburgh Pirates GM?
so, by your logic, every team that doesn't win the cup every year, is a failure? if that was the logic of eveyone, then we would be watching a 1 team league...
the intent of my posts is to indicate that i am seeing PROGRESS, not regression, and i'm ok with that...
Okay, so now we are going from "every team that does not win the cup each year" to a team that finished in the bottom 5 of the entire league EVERY SINGLE YEAR.....ummmm that is quite a gap in standards there.
Why?..... because all three of us think Garth Snow is a horrendous GM? Yeah, that is certainly the opposite of reality...because even a chimpanzee could not have made top 5 draft picks for 5 years running. Face it...that is all this man does. He does not make any trades, he does not sign any free agents of note and can we please stop already with the BS he has no money to spend. He spent around 8 million on Rolston, Staois, Pandolfo and Reasoner. That money could have been used to bring in a top 4 d-man (4 million) and a second line scorer (4 million).
can YOU please stop with the 'he could've signed this guy or that guy...' BS. NOBODY wants to come here under these circumstances...
Does anyone here really believe Garth Snow would get another job in the NHL as a General Manager if he gets fired from the New York Islanders?
I gaurantee you there would be plenty of people wanting to interview Brian Burke.
I rest my case
seriously, if someone wants to hire Burke, all the power to them. all he did in Anaheim was add a couple of goons to an already talented roster. especially in TO, he is being exposed as GM that is tunnel visioned and arrogant.
Snow's drafting record since 2006 is respectable. okposo, rhakshani, macdonald, katic, bailey, ness, hamonic, petrov, donovan, ullstrom, poulin, martin, tavares, dehaan, koskinen, nilsson, czikas, lee, neidereiter, nelson, kabanov, strome, nelson, sundstrom, pedan, persson, kitchon... that's 27 decent players in 5 years. you really can't expect 20 year olds to have an impact in the NHL, so anyone after Tavares, should be considered exempt. the vast majority of players do not have an impact until their 3rd or 4th year (23 or 24 years old).
if we finish with 90 points next year, and miss the playoffs, is that failure? what i'm saying, is that yes, we should be expecting to make the playoffs every second year, once we're established. big difference compared to being in the midst of a rebuild... our core is one of the youngest in the league. you can count guys like pandalfo, motteau, reasoner, staois, eaton if you like, but i don't. they are stopgaps, not part of the core.
we are not a good organization, yet. to expect the team to make a 20 point improvement, while in the midst of a rebuild, is not realistic. and to expect a team that has a young core (can't stress this enough) to have success in the playoffs, is unrealistic too. every team should expect improvement, of course. an established team that is competetive will have different goals than ours. that is a no-brainer.
if you can show me that Snow chose pandalfo over a guy like nystrom, or reasoner over a guy like o'brien, or rolston over ehrhoff, than i will GLADLY agree with you that Snow effed up. from what i've read, in credible sources, it was the players that chose not to come here. i have a hard time understanding how you can blame Snow for not swimming, when his hands and feet are tied together.
in summary, i see the organization making strides. sometimes 2 steps forward, and 1 back, but still moving forward. no quantum leaps, as much as i would like them to. for the record, i think we could have a better owner and management, but they are not the devil and his sidekick, as some proclaim.
Garf did't draft Okposo, Rhett, or MacDonald.
He also could trade for a defenseman since none will come here. That is what a good GM would do. He has had two seasons to do it which is as long as the need to trade vs. hire a ufa was apparent. He himself identified it as a must have above the other needs, and the defense is now interfering with the development of the forwards. I agree with you about his hands being tied in all sorts of ways, but he can swing a trade, and the excuse that the right one hasn't come along yet is belied by the amount of time he has had to get one done.
And please, no silliness about team defense. This is particular to the pieces. Even Lou Lams would be up **** creek with the players we have on the blue line. One quality defenseman would go a long way to improving the entire unit.
Too bad for Snow... can't spend money so he sucks.
I think you mean can't spend money well. But he's not the worst GM. $12M got us the Boston Stranglers, an elite over the hill team of free agents who accomplish little and help less. Not three solid players, no, five horrible bottom liners.
