He spent around 8 million on Rolston, Staois, Pandolfo and Reasoner. That money could have been used to bring in a top 4 d-man (4 million) and a second line scorer (4 million).
You seem to be forgetting something pretty important... those players had pretty much no other options! They were either out of the league or playing somewhere else for much less and getting zero ice time. Those four guys were desperate to play NHL hockey and because the Islanders had to spend enough to reach the floor, they weren't going to get that money anywhere else. A top 4 d-man and a second liner scorer can pretty much write their ticket as to where they want to go.
Snow's drafting record since 2006 is respectable. okposo, rhakshani, macdonald, katic, bailey, ness, hamonic, petrov, donovan, ullstrom, poulin, martin, tavares, dehaan, koskinen, nilsson, czikas, lee, neidereiter, nelson, kabanov, strome, nelson, sundstrom, pedan, persson, kitchon... that's 27 decent players in 5 years. you really can't expect 20 year olds to have an impact in the NHL, so anyone after Tavares, should be considered exempt. the vast majority of players do not have an impact until their 3rd or 4th year (23 or 24 years old).
if we finish with 90 points next year, and miss the playoffs, is that failure? what i'm saying, is that yes, we should be expecting to make the playoffs every second year, once we're established. big difference compared to being in the midst of a rebuild... our core is one of the youngest in the league. you can count guys like pandalfo, motteau, reasoner, staois, eaton if you like, but i don't. they are stopgaps, not part of the core.
we are not a good organization, yet. to expect the team to make a 20 point improvement, while in the midst of a rebuild, is not realistic. and to expect a team that has a young core (can't stress this enough) to have success in the playoffs, is unrealistic too. every team should expect improvement, of course. an established team that is competetive will have different goals than ours. that is a no-brainer.
if you can show me that Snow chose pandalfo over a guy like nystrom, or reasoner over a guy like o'brien, or rolston over ehrhoff, than i will GLADLY agree with you that Snow effed up. from what i've read, in credible sources, it was the players that chose not to come here. i have a hard time understanding how you can blame Snow for not swimming, when his hands and feet are tied together.
in summary, i see the organization making strides. sometimes 2 steps forward, and 1 back, but still moving forward. no quantum leaps, as much as i would like them to. for the record, i think we could have a better owner and management, but they are not the devil and his sidekick, as some proclaim.
-Snow didn't draft all those players (Okposo and MacDonald are the more notable ones).
-Drafting good prospects doesn't mean anything if they're not developed properly (see: Nino).
-I would hardly call the majority of them "decent players". Most of them aren't able to crack one of the worst lineups in the NHL. (and it's
-Tavares was a no-brainer. Any GM in their right mind would have drafted him (and yes I said that at the time). Snow shouldn't get credit for the team being the worst team in the league that year and then making a no-brainer selection.
-How has this team improved from last season to this season? They're once again in the bottom 5 of scoring-and this year there's no crutch to lean on regarding injuries (bad pun I know haha).
You seem to be forgetting something pretty important... those players had pretty much no other options! They were either out of the league or playing somewhere else for much less and getting zero ice time. Those four guys were desperate to play NHL hockey and because the Islanders had to spend enough to reach the floor, they weren't going to get that money anywhere else. A top 4 d-man and a second liner scorer can pretty much write their ticket as to where they want to go.
He also forgets we had to sign 4 guys not 2, so instead of two 4M players we would have to get two 3.4M dollar players as well as 2 600k players. It should also be mentioned that if we didn't have Rolston we would have Hunter so there is 2M there, Hunter would also be part of our team this season(which basically means 6M for 3 players).
He also forgets we had to sign 4 guys not 2, so instead of two 4M players we would have to get two 3.4M dollar players as well as 2 600k players. It should also be mentioned that if we didn't have Rolston we would have Hunter so there is 2M there, Hunter would also be part of our team this season(which basically means 6M for 3 players).
And not to mention that Hunter is better than Rolston (at least better than Rolston was with his team with us).
In 5 years Snow has signed ONE guy on the UFA market that is an impact player that other teams had interest in. Snow has made ONE impact trade in 5 years. Why do fans continue to make excuses for the guy, its been HALF A DECADE of LAST PLACE WITH HIM IN CHARGE. It is mind boggling, only on HF can a failure like the Islanders and Edmonton be called a success because they have good potential players under 22 years old.
And only on HF can people be so blind as to what is REALITY and what is perception.
The perception around here is that Snow is a terrible GM. He very well might be. I'd love to see him switch places with Burke in Toronto to see what he could do with unlimited funds. It might blow up like it is now... and it might not. We will never know.
When was the last time this team had an actual GM who wasn't a back up goaltender or a crazy person (mad mike)? Remember a guy named Neil Smith? The guy who lasted at the job for all of a month. Gee, I wonder why
You can blame Snow for not making trades or not signing any free agents. Go ahead. But I will blame the guy with the checkbook 100 times out of 100. Snow can't make any trades because the only assets the Isles have that other teams would want are our young core. Snow won't trade them because he is committed to the rebuild (or at least that's what Wang makes him say). Isn't that what you all wanted? No one want's any of our vets because most of them are worthless.
He can't sign free agents because... well... does it really need to be talked about for the millionth time? I understand what he said yesterday was beyond retarded. I am merely talking about the moves he makes... or can't make. I don't get what is so hard to understand. He CAN'T sign free agents because the owner won't open his damn checkbook! Although we have heard reports of us trying to overpay and a guy going elsewhere, can we really put that on Snow? I'd rather put that on the owner and the circus atmosphere he has created around the franchise. So really, he is forced to throw these kids into the fire with minimal veteran support and people wonder why the rebuild isn't working. It's not working because there is nothing supplementing our young talent. And the reason for that is none other than Mr. Charles Wang.
For the record, I am not so much defending Snow as I am attacking the one who deserves to be attacked. If Snow is OJ Simpson, Wang is Fidel Castro.
Last edited by Twine Seeking Missle: 04-11-2012 at 12:41 PM.
He spent around 8 million on Rolston, Staois, Pandolfo and Reasoner. That money could have been used to bring in a top 4 d-man.
Did Snow grossly over offer for Hamhuis?
Did Snow offer more/same money for P. Martin?
Did Snow offer more/same money for Z. Michalek?
Did Snow acquire the rights to Ehrhoff in order to get first dibs on signing him and offer good money?
Dude tried for a top 4 dman but anyone worth his salt chooses to play elsewhere. So now rather than making it public he wants a top 4 dman. He chooses to keep his plans within his office doors.
But if it makes you all feel better Snow sucks/does nothing/rinse/repeat.
Until Wang sells the team, it does not matter who the GM is. The team is screwed.
Exactly. The GM could be the chimp in your avatar picture or Bill Torrey. Won't make a difference... Ok maybe a bit of a difference but you get my point.
Until Wang sells the team, it does not matter who the GM is. The team is screwed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyMike01
Yes. You can't win when your owner's goal is circumventing the cap floor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twine Seeking Missle
Exactly. The GM could be the chimp in your avatar picture or Bill Torrey. Won't make a difference... Ok maybe a bit of a difference but you get my point.
I couldn't agree more. However, nothing is standing in Snow's way of trading for a piece... unless Uncle Chuck won't let him trade anyone. I don't see the angle for that, but can't discount it as a possability.
I couldn't agree more. However, nothing is standing in Snow's way of trading for a piece... unless Uncle Chuck won't let him trade anyone. I don't see the angle for that, but can't discount it as a possability.
Like you said, we don't know what is going on behind closed doors. Wang telling him not to make any moves is a more than plausible explanation.
But looking at it another way, let's look at what other teams would want.
Tavares - Yea, no thanks. Unless the pens want to send us Malkin and Neal, no thanks. Untouchable.
Moulson - Guy came out of nowhere to turn into a 30 goal scorer AND we have him locked up on a good deal. Not going anywhere.
Streit - I guess he has some trade value but he is our captain and one of very few competent d-men. Wouldn't trade him.
Nabby - It was smart to lock him up for next year instead of moving him for a 3rd or 4th rounder who would likely never see a shift in the NHL. Simple as that.
P.A. - This is the only guy where it could go either way. If we end up keeping him this summer, great move not trading him. If he leaves for nothing, that would sting a bit.
Bailey, Okposo, Grabner - All considered parts of the nucleus moving forward and all had down years greatly reducing their trade value even if the team wanted to make a move.
So really, I can't see any smart trade that could have been made to make this team any better. If they could get a top pairing d-man for any of those guys (besides JT and Moulson), I'd do it in a second. But the only guys on this team who will net you a top pairing d-man are JT and Moulson.
I couldn't agree more. However, nothing is standing in Snow's way of trading for a piece... unless Uncle Chuck won't let him trade anyone. I don't see the angle for that, but can't discount it as a possability.
Agreed, we have all admitted Wang sucks a million times over. We all should agree Snow sucks a million times over. No reason in the world we could not trade our version of a Carter Ashton type (Rhett Rhak?) for Aulie. Or trade a 2nd for JM Lilies, instead of bringing in Staios and Rolston. Moves are out there to be made if you are willing to trade something under 25, our GM is just un willing to stick his neck out and do anything. Those 2 trades would not put us in the playoffs but are easy too use as examples because they happened, Two deals like that would have made our D look much better than we have now. Add 1 more dman to those and suddenly we have an average D
Did Snow acquire the rights to Ehrhoff in order to get first dibs on signing him and offer good money?
Dude tried for a top 4 dman but anyone worth his salt chooses to play elsewhere. So now rather than making it public he wants a top 4 dman. He chooses to keep his plans within his office doors.
But if it makes you all feel better Snow sucks/does nothing/rinse/repeat.
Columbus went and opened their checkbook and overpaid in order to get free agents to sign there.
How'd that go?
Columbus went and opened their checkbook and overpaid in order to get free agents to sign there.
How'd that go?
How about Florida? They went from losers on our level to the playoffs.
Yes you can hire the wrong guys. Looking at Columbus' decision making history along with Howson's resume I would tend to think that had a much bigger hand than the simple act of hiring UFAs. Or are you stating that hiring UFAs at all is bad? (I know you aren't, but it is a funny concept you have to admit.)
There is only one reason we don't go with good UFAs and that's because the budget is stuck at cap floor level. Good UFAs consider that a sign that your ownership is a joke and that they won't make other additions, going over the floor, to create a truly competitive team.
We should have a game show thread styled after the game "CLUE" as a precurser to guessing how Snow gets to the salary cap floor this year. Certgainly there will be at least one heinous contract to a washed up/disinterested, lazy, retired, constantly drunk, dead, or otherwise incapacitated player to fill in whatever the difference is.
It would go something like this:
Stephane Richer
For 1 year at 7 million
at Tavern on the Green.
You're very much into minority of NYI fans who think garthsnow is a good gm
Eh, i don't think it's a minority. I betcha it's close to 50/50. Depends on how you word the question. Sure, there are a lot of unintelligent fans out there who don't understand the ins and outs of franchise management and want to blame everything on Snow. So yeah, if you want to include those into the mix, you are right the layman hates Snow.
I'd also like to point out, since everyone has such short memories when it comes to Snow, that he pulled off pretty much one of the BIGGEST trades to date. No one expected Ryan Smyth to get traded and when he did it was a sonic boom!! Sure he didn't stay... we didn't have control over that. Snow got him here though and he ended up not giving away much value for him in the end.
I am not saying one trade makes a GM but stop all the nonsense about him doing nothing....
I'd also like to point out, since everyone has such short memories when it comes to Snow, that he pulled off pretty much one of the BIGGEST trades to date. No one expected Ryan Smyth to get traded and when he did it was a sonic boom!! Sure he didn't stay... we didn't have control over that. Snow got him here though and he ended up not giving away much value for him in the end.
I am not saying one trade makes a GM but stop all the nonsense about him doing nothing....
Short memories? That was his only splash and it was 5 years ago. The fact is he has been the least active GM in the league in terms of trades over the past 6 years AINEC. You are living in the past like the Fat Elvis version of Lenny Dykstra. The team needs help now, not some picture of Ryan bawling like a baby in Garf's bathroom.
Short memories? That was his only splash and it was 5 years ago. The fact is he has been the least active GM in the league in terms of trades over the past 6 years AINEC. You are living in the past like the Fat Elvis version of Lenny Dykstra. The team needs help now, not some picture of Ryan bawling like a baby in Garf's bathroom.
Hmm, so he hasn't tried to land anyone the last few off seasons? Weird, I remember reading something each year about offers he made to free agents. Maybe I am on a different time line like Fringe or you have "short memories". For you to even guess at Snow's activity is downright arrogant. You have NO idea what he is doing behind closed doors. Activity does not always = output. You can't FORCE trades and you can't FORCE someone to sign who doesn't want to. When will you stop thinking this is like shopping at Walmart???
