Very interesting argument found on the Wilds board that explains WHY Forsbergs numbers are so low.
Posted by Ponder
Stats are extra useless for prospects in Europe. In the CHL stats can tell you a decent amount, because the various players are all playing in the same leagues, and the 1st round picks are all stars on their respective CHL teams. In Europe, you're talking about 17ish year olds on professional men's teams, sometimes they'll be given significant roles, but often they're brought along slowly with minimal ice time, their stats will be much more depend on the specific situation they're in with their team. Last year Swedish players were drafted 4th, 6th, 10th and 19th overall (Larsson, Zbad, Brodin and Klefbom), none put up crazy stats at all, but all are nice prospects. Kovalchuk and Malkin were two of the most hyped recent European prospects, and Kovalchuk played tier 2 men's hockey in Russia, while Malkin played in the RSL but put up a not too crazy 3 goals and 9 assists in 34 games in his draft year. With European prospects it's way more about scouting the skills than looking at the numbers, because even the top prospects are generally not put in situations where they can put up big numbers in their draft years.
Very interesting argument found on the Wilds board that explains WHY Forsbergs numbers are so low.
Posted by Ponder
Stats are extra useless for prospects in Europe. In the CHL stats can tell you a decent amount, because the various players are all playing in the same leagues, and the 1st round picks are all stars on their respective CHL teams. In Europe, you're talking about 17ish year olds on professional men's teams, sometimes they'll be given significant roles, but often they're brought along slowly with minimal ice time, their stats will be much more depend on the specific situation they're in with their team. Last year Swedish players were drafted 4th, 6th, 10th and 19th overall (Larsson, Zbad, Brodin and Klefbom), none put up crazy stats at all, but all are nice prospects. Kovalchuk and Malkin were two of the most hyped recent European prospects, and Kovalchuk played tier 2 men's hockey in Russia, while Malkin played in the RSL but put up a not too crazy 3 goals and 9 assists in 34 games in his draft year. With European prospects it's way more about scouting the skills than looking at the numbers, because even the top prospects are generally not put in situations where they can put up big numbers in their draft years.
True of all European prospects. I think Teemu had 18 points in his draft year. Might be wrong about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksgo
You find a center in this years draft who is not afraid of conflict and scores pts on top of it in the dirty areas and I will change my opinion completely.....
Gally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksgo
I'll go off topic with ya bro. But I'm sure alot of us fans miss that physicality punch that Carlyle won a cup with. Boudreau should have a median between physicality and skill. Right now were a bunch of softies. We need to bring in some Moens, Robbie Nieds type players. Dirty third liners and a few who will hit hard and ask questions later centers. Brayden Schen fixes into that mold.... Still waiting to see what he brings this series though.
And to keep it relevant.... Yes I will trade our 6th overall ++ For Schenn depending on outcome of Phillies playoffs.
True of all European prospects. I think Teemu had 18 points in his draft year. Might be wrong about that.
Gally.
Jeez. What's the ++?
Well I already proposed on the trade boards and they want fowler plus for him. So that's a no... I was hoping our 6th overall and maybe maroon or something TOTALLY under circumstance of the playoffs so I don't really know yet I would offer.
Trading our 6th this year for Schenn is a bad idea. Not only do we lose the player at #6, we block Holland to 3rd line center max potential.
Stupid
He's not even ready for 2nd line duties and may never will be. Schenns playing right now and eating up minutes on their 2nd line. So no it's not completely stupid. Already proposed this on the trade boards and they want fowler + for him.... So it's a no go anyway
Trading our 6th this year for Schenn is a bad idea. Not only do we lose the player at #6, we block Holland to 3rd line center max potential.
Stupid
"Blocking" a player to only third line duties should never be an issue when making trades. Depth is a good thing. Pittsburgh still drafted Staal despite the fact he would be blocked by Crosby and Malkin. That turned out pretty good for them.
"Blocking" a player to only third line duties should never be an issue when making trades. Depth is a good thing. Pittsburgh still drafted Staal despite the fact he would be blocked by Crosby and Malkin. That turned out pretty good for them.
Blocking a player from drafting one is fine, aka us picking Galy this year. Trading a top 6 pick to block a player is different, not what Pittsburgh did. It's not a good use of assests.
Blocking a player from drafting one is fine, aka us picking Galy this year. Trading a top 6 pick to block a player is different, not what Pittsburgh did. It's not a good use of assests.
Nobody is entitled to a job. If a team can improve themselves with a trade they do it. You certainly don't refrain from acquiring an NHL talent because you "hope" some AHLer eventually earns the job. You may or may not chose to include the prospect in the deal.
Blocking a player from drafting one is fine, aka us picking Galy this year. Trading a top 6 pick to block a player is different, not what Pittsburgh did. It's not a good use of assests.
How is it different at all? If Holland turns out to be that good it means we have a 2nd line C in the 3rd line spot. That's a good problem to have.
Nobody is entitled to a job. If a team can improve themselves with a trade they do it. You certainly don't refrain from acquiring an NHL talent because you "hope" some AHLer eventually earns the job. You may or may not chose to include the prospect in the deal.
Blocking a player from drafting one is fine, aka us picking Galy this year. Trading a top 6 pick to block a player is different, not what Pittsburgh did. It's not a good use of assests.
Lolololol.... So if we end up with Grigs or Gally and they are immediately able to step in from day one and take over 2nd line duties it's okay but if we trade for a player of equal talent and is already proven to be able to play while the others can completely flop it's not okay?
Lolololol.... So if we end up with Grigs or Gally and they are immediately able to step in from day one and take over 2nd line duties it's okay but if we trade for a player of equal talent and is already proven to be able to play while the others can completely flop it's not okay?
Well I already proposed on the trade boards and they want fowler plus for him. So that's a no... I was hoping our 6th overall and maybe maroon or something TOTALLY under circumstance of the playoffs so I don't really know yet I would offer.
uh did we not tell you they'd want alot? what were you expecting?
The whole discussion is a non-starter for Philly, anyway. Schenn was the centerpiece in a deal that sent their star-player and captain away. He's a very highly regarded young player that is showing a ton of promise and is already contributing, while being cheap. The Flyers are winning now and looking to keep doing that, so that is worth a lot more to them than even a very good pick. They are not going to trade him a deal centered around that. Not sure if even something around Ryan would make sense for them at this point (cap wise). Besides this realistic look at things, it's always a hell of a bad idea to ask for a good young player after he had an impressive showing. (Well, actually, it's never a good time to ask for one, quite honestly.) No reason in the world for the Flyers to move him, unless we want to ship out Fowler, which we won't.
The more I think about it, I really think Grigorenko is going to fall to us. Columbus probably avoids him like the plague, and I can see Montreal preferring Galchenyuk, who you can definitely argue is safer. Don't see either the Islanders or Leafs touching him, either.
The more I think about it, I really think Grigorenko is going to fall to us. Columbus probably avoids him like the plague, and I can see Montreal preferring Galchenyuk, who you can definitely argue is safer. Don't see either the Islanders or Leafs touching him, either.
The new ISS rankings came out yesterday an Galchenyuk has fallen out of the top 10. I don't know what happen but lol he's gone.
The more I think about it, I really think Grigorenko is going to fall to us. Columbus probably avoids him like the plague, and I can see Montreal preferring Galchenyuk, who you can definitely argue is safer. Don't see either the Islanders or Leafs touching him, either.
I think you'll see a lot of reaches and off the board picks at this year's draft. No one seems to have a handle on this draft class, and the only things people seem to agree on are Nail as the 1st overall and Murray in the top 3.
I think you'll see a lot of reaches and off the board picks at this year's draft. No one seems to have a handle on this draft class, and the only things people seem to agree on are Nail as the 1st overall and Murray in the top 3.
I agree.
As long as we come away with one of Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, Dumba, Forsberg, Trouba I'm good.
